I am so very angry right now...
Victor32
Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215181Members
Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215181Members
I will probably get banned for this, but I can't just keep quiet.
Anyone who has played Subnautica knows that the amazing sound design is as huge part of its atmosphere. All the sounds, the music, the ambiance... they all made the world alive, scary, fun. We all agreed here that the person behind it did a spectacular job.
Enter a bunch of professionally offended people who have nothing better to do than seek their 5 minutes of internet fame at someone else's expense. Enter a bunch of white knights probing through the person's posting history everywhere, up to ten generations back in time, figuratively speaking. Enter a mob of angry people slandering not only that person but all the people in the country they come from. A few screenshots, a lot of angry words, many, many, many assumptions, and...
...we got a lynching.
What did UWE people do? They fired the guy, just like that. They chose to appease the angry self-righteous masses. Doesn't matter his work was a substantial part of the game's success. Doesn't matter that he was hired to do sound design and excelled at it. No, let's kick him out because we are scared of a bunch of keyboard warriors.
Congratulations, UWE, you just got rid of one of your truly valuable assets.
PS: I'm not defending his political/social/personal views, no. They are his problem whenever he looks at himself in the mirror. The fact is, however, that he did not say/do anything illegal and he still got kicked out for the sake of political correctness, despite the fact that he was so VERY good at the job he was being paid for.
Anyone who has played Subnautica knows that the amazing sound design is as huge part of its atmosphere. All the sounds, the music, the ambiance... they all made the world alive, scary, fun. We all agreed here that the person behind it did a spectacular job.
Enter a bunch of professionally offended people who have nothing better to do than seek their 5 minutes of internet fame at someone else's expense. Enter a bunch of white knights probing through the person's posting history everywhere, up to ten generations back in time, figuratively speaking. Enter a mob of angry people slandering not only that person but all the people in the country they come from. A few screenshots, a lot of angry words, many, many, many assumptions, and...
...we got a lynching.
What did UWE people do? They fired the guy, just like that. They chose to appease the angry self-righteous masses. Doesn't matter his work was a substantial part of the game's success. Doesn't matter that he was hired to do sound design and excelled at it. No, let's kick him out because we are scared of a bunch of keyboard warriors.
Congratulations, UWE, you just got rid of one of your truly valuable assets.
PS: I'm not defending his political/social/personal views, no. They are his problem whenever he looks at himself in the mirror. The fact is, however, that he did not say/do anything illegal and he still got kicked out for the sake of political correctness, despite the fact that he was so VERY good at the job he was being paid for.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I have never cared about another person's opinion and as long as they don't harm someone else, then they can do what they want or have whatever controversial opinion they want and have the right to express it. Idealistically, good opinions flourish while bad opinions wither and die.
Can you link me to what happened please
only just signed up can't post links yet but the story is up on kotaku
And you think Kotaku us reliable? Yes they do tell you about the story but it doesn't make them worth looking at. The fact is this guy who had one of the main roles in mak8ng this game the masterpiece it is has been fired because he thinks in a different way to the devs. The worst part is that they claim they do this because the player base doesn't stand for this kind of stuff it they're wrong. They can't just assume that their player base thinks like them, it's ridiculous.
Besides, politics shouldn't matter in a video game. They aren't here to be politicised but played I'd enjoyed.
Almost every work of fiction reflects the politics of it's creator/s, alot of people simply don't realise it, they've already stated Subnautica doesn't have guns as a statement against gun violence.
As for their reasons in this case, '' “Over the weekend we discovered that one of our team members had made many hateful statements online that are against our company values. After discussing the matter with him, we decided to stop working with him immediately.”
The employee's behaviour was against the company values, this is a perfect valid reason for firing, and it always has been, an employee's actions reflect on the company they work for. It's the simple fact he acted like a dick, people don't want people that act like dicks working for them, it's not a shocking or controversial idea.
Free speech doesn't shield you against the (ir)responsability of your words and if you speak like a dickhead you have to face the consequences like for example being fired by your boss who really doesn't like racist and homophobic people and doesn't want to be associated (him and his company) to you.
Being free to say what you want doesn't mean that people will appreciate and agree with you and have to listen you and share them space with you.
He got what he deserved.
I'm not familiar with the remarks he was fired over, and I haven't seen them linked to or quoted, so maybe sizzle down a little bit until we can get to what he actually said? And he himself has asked everyone to calm down.
Actually, since all it takes is some digging: Dug from here to here (where it all started) Relevant Kotaku article referenced earlier.
Prequel here
A good summary of what happened here
However, Keep in mind Si's Tweet:
For those out of the loop, here is a good explanation of the origin of the meme Si posted and what it means.
My personal, probably unpopular, opinion is that for as long as an employee's moral values were kept out of the product he worked on, there is absolutely no reason to get rid of someone who is so obviously a valuable member of the team. Especially if those throwing accusations at him and demanding group responsibility from UWE, aren't so innocent themselves. If you want to ruin someone's reputation, make sure yours is crystal clear first, otherwise you don't have any right to speak up.
I've skimmed through the forum where it all started and, if my thinking process was anything like that of the people posting there, I'd have to say that - being Polish myself - I left the place hurt, offended, and spat on. I'd have to start my own crusade against them, because everything they accused Si of they have committed themselves calling ALL Polish people racist, anti-semitic, hostile, and primitive multiple times, in very derogatory and offensive ways.
Pot, meet kettle... you just lost any moral high ground you claimed to have there.
Regardless of what Si's done, it is a pity that he had to leave. He did a darn fine job making Subnautica sound awesome and, whatever DLC the game is going to have in the future, I am sure the quality will not be as high in this particular department. Say what you want about the man, his departure IS a huge loss for both UWE and the playerbase.
Anyway, what's done is done. Si won't be back and the angry mob has been appeased... for now, at least, until they find a new victim, hopefully not someone from UWE again. It's just so impossibly sad that Subnautica will never be the same again, for me at least. Part of its charm is gone forever now.
To anyone who cares about the subject: it is unfortunate to lose a talent from your beloved project, but the matter of fact is - social networks are not a private place where people can speak their thoughts freely without repercussions of someone potentially asking to answer for their words. More so, it is very important for any team leader to maintain exactly the atmosphere they want in order to keep the working conditions as stable as possible. We can only hope that the decision came naturally and wasn't a result of a "panic attack" solution, hectically cooked up under force of fear of bad publicity.
To UWE team: again, representation and diversity are nice to have, especially in modern games, but only when they come naturally and are not forcefully shoved into your projects. Also, shoving people with offensive opinions out of your frame without even trying to fix the situation with zero loss is not the best way to make a good difference in this world. (it might be the case that the employee simply has not realised the levels or risk of potential harm their personal thoughts might bring to the reputation of the company, so a little administrative warning with a public statement of apology for... whoever exactly was offended by employee's words, and a probation period to see if they can follow the code of conduct you've chosen for a company would be a better option)
Generally, making people fear of what they're about to say next is not fixing the problem - it's just burying it deep into the ground and turning such people into liars whenever they go through audition about the sensitive subject. Dealing with lies long-term is much harder.
Also I hope you realise that, statistically, the odds of success for companies who have put diversity in top priority above all else, including talent to make as best product as possible, are always against them.
To Simon: your work is on the same, very rare for videogames, level of competence as Doom 3 or any Valve-title projects.
Soundscape you've created not only successfully informs player about their surroundings but also has become an inseparable part of the game's world that made it stand out and not a single player (count out deaf ones, sorry) who has played Subnautica can imagine planet 4546B without your majestic sound effects and music.
Godspeed you - your skills won't be left out in the rain for long!
* * * * *
P.S.
Again, sorry for adding the fuel to the messy situation, but this game itself kinda grew the culture of providing constant feedback, so maybe that's why I couldn't resist to skip the discussion.
Now, do I think I would have fired him? Probably not. He was a critical member of the team and as long as he didnt disrupt the workplace I don't really care what he does in his personal time.
@matrixdll Out of all comments here, I identify mostly with yours. However, you're assuming he was fired right of the bat (or I might have missed something). They may very well have asked him to apologize and change his behavior before actually dismissing him. He may not have agreed to do so.
Whatever the case, it's unfortunate.
Thank you team for banning me from your Discord. While I've had several weeks of pleasant discussion with many others in the community, apparently my rather moderate conversation about this topic was too much for you. Actually, I defended the devs saying that despite politics, this is a great game and still deserves the money. Next thing you know, I ask a legitimate question about FOV and I'm banned? I don't even know what the ban was for - asking about FOV or talking about you firing a talented team member.
Is this really how you want to treat your community?
I'm disappointed. Very disappointed.
And thanks to everyone for voicing their opinions - at least here on the forum we can speak freely and disagree with one another without risk of being fired banned. I'm being sarcastic, but this quote just did it for me:
So if a Muslim person tells you that the sun is pink with green polka dot pattern, you are expected to agree with them because they are Muslim. Congrats, UWE, on PR move of the year.
I don't think it requires any more commentary.
http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/subnautica-entwickler-wegen-hasserfuellter-tweets-gefeuert,3325710.html
From my personal perspective, I find them rather stupid and short-sighted. However this is what you get when you try to put your political views into 140 signs. At least take the time to write in full sentences and words.
We can only make guesses if the termination was called for, as we are obviously not objective. You will never know how persons act in their office life either, but maybe you can deduce and extrapolate characteristics from online behaviour.
Well to be quite honest, this kind of crap is getting out of hand really... Forcing diversity for the sake of diversity just to conform your public image to the social pressure from bigoted people that demand diversity for unsubstantiated reasons, is weak and and quite cowardly as well. You either take a stance for equal opportunity for EVERYONE and earn proper respect that way. Or you might as well bend over backwards for anyone who has an opinion or feels offended for personal reasons. Once you give in to this nonsense, you're labeling yourself as an easy target and they will demand more and more, it's how these people work. I must say, if this is their view, I've lost a bit of respect for them.
The only reason to hire people should be based on their credentials and if you click with them. Forcing gender, race or ideology into this decision making process is ludicrous. It is in fact sexist, racist and bigoted, basically you're doing exactly the thing you're trying to fight against! Yet somehow this basic logic flies over most of their heads and if you call them out on their hypocrisy they will start projecting by accusing you of the things they're doing. Quite a sad display, if ya ask me
Simon, job well done mate for the music and sounds you made for this amazing game. But aside from him being fired, that is still their right to do so if they can't see eye to eye. I'm not going into the immature internet drama from third party sources, which seems to be the click-bait trend in this day and age...
The only people who can truly fight back are the people providing jobs, unless they are too afraid to take that stance and cave to the pressure. The "new normal" really sucks, because when it comes down to it. Most people are not brave enough to stand against this kind of devious and backstabbing bullshit, because of "bad press" or potential loss of lively-hood and this is understandable.
Even when it's been proven time and time again, that NOT giving in actually works much better. Because most people don't live in this social media drama bubble and certainly aren't stupid, they can see through the hypocrisy!
As a result these, SJW's? will show their true face if you don't play their little game
Good luck with that. Money is king regardless of what you think works or not. Go ahead and start an indie game company, post your opinions all over social media, attach your posts to your company, and see if Sony, Valve or Microsoft picks up your project. Opinions don't pay the bills.
Tell me, where did I say that our livelihood somehow supersedes the company existence or rules... Keywords "the people providing jobs"
Your opinion is usually on point mate. However, that is a rather complex subject to boil down to "SJW are pushing their agendas and we're letting them".
In a game with so few devs, one of them publicly voicing their opinion on polemic matters is far more impactful than a regular Joe on a very large company.
Also, there are many inclusion policies fostering positive results.
SJW's loudest activists are becoming troublesome. But that's usually true for any movement. Everything comes with some good and some bad attached to it. Inclusion might seem bad at first, and a little unfair, but it is trying to fix centuries of exclusion and that's really hard. It's not a final solution and does not claim to be so.
Real shame though, any expansion/DLC prob won't be the same without his work. Hopefully, he already produced far more than it's already in the game, just waiting to be used.