Finding out what the precursors looked like - with logic!
kingkuma
cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
Ok, we're probably never going to see the precursors ingame. But we can find out what they looked like from their structures.
1. They had tentacles.
The buildings have no stairs, only ramps. I can't really imagine a tentacled alien climbing steps.
2. They had hands - or at least arms
The data consoles have keys - how else would they use them? Also, how else would they hold the artifact keys?
3. They have large brains.
They're telepathic, so they have to have a larger brain.
What does that sound like? Yep, you guessed it.
A WARPER.
I'm not saying warpers are precursors, they just look like them. We make our robots look like us, (example - C-3PO) so why wouldn't they?
1. They had tentacles.
The buildings have no stairs, only ramps. I can't really imagine a tentacled alien climbing steps.
2. They had hands - or at least arms
The data consoles have keys - how else would they use them? Also, how else would they hold the artifact keys?
3. They have large brains.
They're telepathic, so they have to have a larger brain.
What does that sound like? Yep, you guessed it.
A WARPER.
I'm not saying warpers are precursors, they just look like them. We make our robots look like us, (example - C-3PO) so why wouldn't they?
Comments
For some reason they made the Warpers partly organic. The Precursors were perfectly able to create autonomous robotic devices as seen in the spider bots. So there was a need for the organic component.
I have always believed that what @Fathom has said to be true; they look very much like the Sea Emperor, from the tentacles to the scythe-like claws to the head shape. Wouldn't it also be fitting to design your Carar Maintenance Workers after the one animal immune to the disease?
What you say about the tentacles is possible, but we cannot prove nor disprove this when it comes to ramps, since humans with legs are able to walk up ramps just fine. We cannot know for sure, but I am almost certain that it was either a slug-like foot or their legs were ethereal in nature. What we can look at to determine this is the lift and, like you said, the ramps. The only thing that I can think of that can't go up stairs is a giant snail or slug, and what use would you have for stairs if your legs were non-existent. Therefore in my mind, these creatures had either a single foot akin to that of a slug or had none whatsoever.
I think these creatures would have stood slightly shorter than a human. There are two ways we can determine this; the height the Ion Crystal Pillars raise when you get close, and the height of the Precursor Artifact Panels. I think it's a stretch to say that they just "bent down" to collect the crystals and put keys into terminals. We can also look at the incredibly short tables in the Lost River Base.
These creatures definitely had arms, and they definitely had blood. Firstly we can see that the Precursor Keys are meant to be held; there are parts on the sides that display this quite well. There's also the Deactivation Button, which is clearly designed to lock the user in place whilst a snake-like arm scans you and takes a sample of blood for testing.
These creatures didn't have very developed voice box, as a failed deactivation of the superweapon will trigger a Precursor relay, in what I can only assume to be their own language. I doubt they had a mouth at all, in fact.
So from the evidence I can only conclude that the Precursors are...
Nice observation on the "bending down" part. I didn't think of that!
EDIT:
On the other side if I come to think about it ... If I were a Precursor that could upload myself to escape a virus, I would need an avatar body to get back into real life after the Carar danger is gone. Maybe the Warpers are those candidates for downloading back the Precursor mind ...
There's also a strong argument for tentacles. Human architecture leans toward the linear and rigid - skybridges being a prime example. But Precursor structures use tentacular connections, those snaking, articulated metallic tentacles. Since form follows function, and function is dictated by the organism creating the form, it's altogether likely that we're looking at a tentacled creature. (And before anyone starts up about humans being the only organism with architecture, you're thinking too literally. Ants and termites have architecture, as do hornets, beavers, and anything else that modifies its natural environment. Architecture doesn't require nails.)
Telepathy? Questionable. Unless in this universe telepathy and technology cannot interact, the presence of physical controls would seem to argue against widespread or particularly effective telepathy. The rationale for this statement is that any form of telepathy - projective or receptive - would involve the projection of or sensitivity to a form of energy transmission. Most anything that nature can produce, technology can mimic and interact with. When given the option of interacting with your equipment with the speed and ease of thought or using clunky manual controls, speed and ease win out every time. That's not to say that those manual controls couldn't exist as some sort of backup, but it pushes telepathy to the margins.
Same goes for cyborgs. If you can replace and augment the fabric of the body, installing a transmitter or IFF is chicken feed, thus making all ideas of physical keys entirely obsolete. Since there are keys...everywhere...we can rule out cyborgs, too...for the most part. What does come to the forefront, though, is a neural receiver, which is capable of downloading complex data and transferring it directly into the brain. Everything we've seen shows only the capability of the organism to receive. So, rather than nailing sheafs of paper to the wall to read slowly, they use near-field communications to broadcast it directly into the brain. Far more efficient when dealing with massive amounts of information. For scientists, that would be terrific.
We can assume they live in an oxy/nitrogen atmosphere thanks to their structures; the facilities on the island aren't enclosed, and wearing environmental suits is cumbersome and to be avoided. However...
I think we can easily say they're aquatic. They may have had certain processes that require dry air, like teleportation, but they either lived in water or an extremely humid environment. In fact, it's altogether likely that their bodies contained no voids, cavities, or air spaces whatsoever. Loose air is what causes humans problems when diving; compression leads to altered blood gas levels, which can lead to death without due care. A fully aquatic organism with no air spaces, acquiring blood gas by rote diffusion, has no such concerns. Given that their facilities are underwater, it's a reasonable conclusion. It could be argued the facilities are underwater because that's where their study was conducted, but even the gun platform is mostly underwater. If you prefer air, you don't do that; it's an unnecessary complication and expense.
Their vision is probably shifted a little higher on the spectrum than human normal. The prevalence of cyan light would indicate that it's their preferred vision center, which moves their visual spectrum. They could probably perceive some ultraviolet and less red, which would render the red keys looking grey to their eyes (which is reasonable; just because our vision perceives it differently doesn't make either of us wrong). Their eyes were probably considerably larger than our own, since they seem to have been comfortable in lower-light environments.
Honestly, I'm seeing a octopus/squid body structure with a gastropodal foot for easier movement on hard surfaces. Flexible, reasonably speedy, capable of extreme dexterity, unaffected by depth changes, capable of supporting a complex brain, somewhat slight of stature compared to a human. The Warpers almost fit the bill, but I'd say @kingkuma was right in the assessment that the Warpers are more like drones made in the image of Precursors, rather than a direct copy.
so they are obviously anthibians judging by how they were infected by a water born virus and they can breath on land as their bases all have oxygen but are assed through water.. So far they could of looked like any type of frog or toad.
Also a big brain doesn't make thing intelligent, if that was the case whales would of colonised the galaxy by now, their brains would of been compact but lacking some optical sensory sections by how they game describes them as mainly using sounds to communicate. So we have a blind toad or frog with.
They were born in "broods" and are assigned training into a single job in life much like how a ant Clooney works, judging by this there must be either brood mothers that produce eggs to supply the colonel or a sing queen. So blind frog that live in a collective monarchy.
Their body's couldn't have any bone structure or teeth seeing as there are no skeletons or fossil records of their bone structure. So their body's do contain tentacles or their body's produce a large amount of cartilage to support their body's, this is like how sharks are in real life as when they die, their entire body would decompose and leave only the teeth. This could point to a water born species that later adapted to live on land, this is further supported by when the precursor cache explains that the precursor had implants to aid in experience and teaching, this could also lead to implants that could adapt to different environments.
So judging by my supported evidence I could theorise that the precursors could of looked like the Darleks of doctor who, but with undeveloped eyes and possible implants to sustain their body's outside their natural habitat.
THE POWER OF SCIENCE, AWAY.
Considering those fantastic teleporting capabilities of the Warpers, I think telepathy would be a far too easy option. If a mind can bent time and space for mass transportation of a body equivalent to yottabytes of quantum data it should be far more easy to bend time and space only tiny for a simple transmission (not teleportation) of a few kilobyte of information. If you think about it, teleportation of mass is several scales above wave communication and if an organism could teleport a few meters it could probably telepathically connect to other planets lightyears away with the same level of energy and probably even complexity.
Thus the Warpers probably already communicate with telepathy. If the Precursors are equal or advanced to the Warpers they should be able to use teleportation and telepathy.
But you know, games are just games and authors make mistakes or need to reduce logic to press the story and fantasm inside the body of a selling product. If the devs or authors are good the so called loopholes and logic mistakes are minimal. And if all looks good and is awesome the consumers tend to look away at broken logic for the sake of a good feeling.
So count the manual devices at the Precursor installations as a minor loophole and just assume it is a natural good old fashioned failsafe control from the ancient "stone age" Precursor times that happen to make it possible for humans to access the Precursor tech at all.
I'd really love to get a glimpse of the Precursors in-game - I think it's pretty clear we're not going to get to actually MEET them in-game, but I would love it if we could find a picture of them on one of their databanks, or something like that.
We're also forgetting that a species with the capacity to create something like the warper probably also has the ability to modify themselves to suit most environments.
And we probably don't find any bodies because they were disposed of after the mind was uploaded to the caches, Like the databanks suggests.
Aside from keys, we see virtually no loose artifacts.
We see no obvious item storage.
We see no evidence of vehicles, so we can surmise they were capable of locomotion and at least brief survival in the open water conditions outside their bases.
There are no obvious food or waste disposal units.
The height and size of various features suggests creatures shorter than humans.
There is a gravity elevator, so they couldn't move freely vertically.
They had eyes that probably could see at least some of the colors in the human visual range.
They had graspers/manipulators.
They can move on dry land.
They either couldn't breathe underwater or preferred not to because their bases are dry.
They were at least partially biological because they were susceptible to a disease.
That doesn't narrow it down too much.
Oh, but you have seen them in-game. Didn't you think it strange that the same "woman's" picture appears in so many Alterra lockers? Precursor spy!
Case closed, roll Perry Mason outro music.
Hmm...so almost like a natural-form quantum entanglement communication? Possibly augmented by an artificially-implanted receiver for technology-based transmissions, like the one from the data bank the PDA intercepts.
Do not play poker with a Precursor...
We do see evidence of this, or at least a hint at it: the moonpool in the Quarantine Enforcement Platform.
I wonder why they would need a sub if they could teleport nearly anywhere. Maybe to gather resourses or capture a certain sea emperor? I can imagine two subs with the sea emperor tied up in a net and being towed by them.
No aquatic lifeform would use an air environment in their own home if they aren't amphibean. Only in guest quarters for other species.
Now the Precursors have an air environment and don't know that humans are coming as guests and those guests are even unwanted. So we must assume that they were capable of breathing air and living inside such an air environment. The Warpers on the other side need a full water environment and can only swim. They are unable to enter an air based Precursor environment.
That makes it more reasonable that the Warpers are either the natural origins of the Precursors that were left after the Precursors were gone (like Humans vs Apes or Planet of the Apes) or Carar transformed descendants of the Precursors that developped back towards living in a water environment after the great Carar disaster.
Of course a third option could be that the Warpers are genetic engineered avatars or sentinels of the Precursors that are immune to the Carar. But I'd skip the avatar use. Because in that case the Precursor bases would probably be flooded to allow Warpers the use of Precursor tech against enemies. By keeping up air environments the Precursors effectively shut out Warpers accessing the bases.
If we consider that the Warpers are concentrated around Precursor bases and without any social interaction of their own species and are rare to live elsewhere, they can't be the origins of the Precursors that were left after the Precursors were gone and now protect the Precursor bases like god temples. They show no sign of being an independant species with an own will.
So the conclusion would be that the Warpers are indeed water based sentinels. Probably designed by the Precursors. They show no own needs to care about themselves.
Consequences:
Precursor tech must include the following:
- teleportation/warping
- telepathy
- genetic engineering/transfusion
and blueprints of any tech like this can only be found exclusive at Precursor installations. Like:The same should count for gravity manipulation tech, as the grav lift isn't available at Alterra installations.
Thus, these grav based objects should be exclusive Precursor tech:
Other candidates for Precursor exclusives:
,.. a "robot" or better yet a form of cyborg to be used as a quarantine enforcement officer...meaning the were basically built as a robot by the precursors.
To others of the comment saying they are maybe distant relatives of the sea emperor cause of their immunity to the kaarar....THEY ARE MECHANICALLY ENGINEERED..aka they are robots they cant get infected...the warper is a machine in the simplest words....like your cyclops...saying the warper is immune is like saying your cyclops can become infected...they not immune...its simply that robots cant contract diseases cause they are not biological
I mean i can agree with you after all we can somehow minipulate our very particles in order to phase using phasegates so grav lifts seem pretty small and easy compared to the whole phasegate thing
Prior to their disappearance, Precursors had an advanced level of technology capable of genetic manipulation, nanotech, robotics, energy storage and transmission, teleportation and telepathy. This would place Precursors as a slightly more advanced race than humanity, but only by a few centuries or so. Most of their technologies are well within reach of Terrans inhabiting the Subnautica world-frame.
Precursors were presumably amphibious creatures, equally at home in water or an oxygen/nitrogen gaseous atmosphere. This observation is supported by an apparent absence of submersible vehicles and their servicing facilities. Other than warp portals or gravity shafts, Precursors did not appear to use (or require) any other forms of mechanical transportation such as ground vehicles or submersibles. The fact that there are a number of operational warp portals located underwater supports this theory.
Precursors may have possessed a general physiology compatible with Emperor Leviathans. It is assumed that although they are two distinct species, their evolutionary paths may have diverged from a common ancestor. This suggests a situation roughly analogous to that of humans and whales. I believe that Precursors may have had a broad physical similarity to Warpers, but incorporating some facial features that point to a distant shared ancestry with Emperors. The fact that Warpers are biomechanical constructs suggests that they may have some physical similarities with the race that constructed them. Unfortunately, no conclusive evidence exists to support this speculation.
Precursors appear to have been larger than humans, but significantly smaller than Sea Emperors. This theory is supported by the scale and overall design of their architecture. A more accurate idea of their physical size can be gained by examining any of the smaller Precursor research facilities. An absence of stairs could be explained by the mechanical inefficiency of this architectural feature. Ramps fulfill the same function far more efficiently, particularly where space constraints are not an issue.
Most Precursor machinery is specifically designed to accept tactile input. Although tentacles are capable of highly dexterous manipulation, these appendages would be unable to perform many of the extremely precise motions required to construct increasingly sophisticated tools and equipment. If the ends of their tentacles were able to re-form into smaller 'digits' as required, this might explain how the Precursor race were able to reach a high level of technological achievement.
Precursors were capable of vocalized speech and telepathy. Sound waves require highly specific conditions in order to travel any appreciable distance underwater. Temperature, depth and salinity variations alter the density of seawater, directly influencing the effective distance that sound waves can travel, reducing its utility as a means of communication. Theoretically, telepathy is not limited by distance, temperature or salinity changes. Being a silent form of communication, telepathy also confers a significant survival advantage, particularly in Planet 4546B's hostile marine environment. The fact that the Emperor Leviathan communicates via telepathy seems to confirm this theory. I am inclined to suspect that the Precursors were able to deceive a Leviathan into submitting to captivity, rather than forcibly subduing an unwilling specimen. Given the vast size disparity between Precursors and Emperor Leviathans, any hostile capture scenario seems highly unlikely.
As stated above there is a massive moonpool in the QEP.
Also...
But the Precursors aren’t native to 4546B and the Emperror is if I remember correctly.
It definitely looks like a moonpool. Where are the Precursor submarines? I'm inclined to think that the pool was more of a grand entrance hall to the QEP.
I haven't seen any evidence in-game that suggests Precursors aren't native to 4546B. They 'came before' the current lifeforms that exist on the planet.
Hence the name, 'Precursors'.
1. Very very humanoid, considering
2. Pretty tall and pretty wide by human standards
3. May have had hump-back like characteristics. Not actually hump-backs though, but it'd look like they did because their heads are farther down on their chest than a human's is
4. Possible had a great many tentacles or at least multiple 'sets' or appendages; that is, they have multiple manipulative limbs and use some of them more often, (or for different reasons,) than the others
5. It is possible that the Precursors are composed of multiple biological backgrounds. Maybe not the same species is what I'm saying; since their structures appear to cater to different sizes of organisms. Some places may cater practically to smaller creatures while the architecture seems to be more befitting to a much larger creature
Are undoubtedly land-bound.
(So PLEASE read it. It will make my day.)
1. Errrr... yeah, actually, if you take a look at the architecture of the Sea-Emperor pen, there are very large steps leading up to the rest of the facility. The player just tends to walk along a smaller ramp where maybe a door or panel would slide into place if the Emperor was being 'unruly'. And so, the player might not notice the giant freaking steps.
Also 1. Don't generalize. You have no way of knowing if the precursors were one species. If they did a lot of interacting with other species, (they obviously collected Earth artifacts,) then they might join up with many more advanced species. In fact, the artifacts which can be found in the primary containment facility suggest that the Precursors have likely at least taken their teleportation tech from other species. Hehe.
2. Read my other post
3. Errrr Stop 'generalizationing'. You know nothing about this species directly, and can't assume that they have above worm intelligence. They might be a hive-mind and simply evolved to get some freaky high from astrobiology and are actually more like ants than super-beings. Also, they might have multiple brains.
ALSO 3. How do you know they're telepathic? The Sea Emperor says that they 'didn't listen' as if they drowned out telepathic brain waves coming from it.
AAAAND 4. Warpers aren't robots. And if we could make defense robots, we'd be stupid to make them look like humans. We'd just make them so that they'd work in whatever environment we're in.
As a follow-up to the above, If humans were to engineer an organism to use as a defense, we'd just make it look however the other lifeforms in the area work because we'd know that they obviously... uh... 'work'. And so, what do warpers like like an improved version of? That's right! all others of the most successful creatures on 4546B!!! Your argument is a double-edged sword which can easily disprove itself.
- Of course, they breathe oxygen (probably. It's certainly abundant in their facilities; although I guess they could breathe anything, really. I just suspect oxygen because that's that their facilities have in them and it's what we breathe; us both liking oxygen-nitrogen atmospheres.)
- Scifiwriterguy suggested that they're largely aquatic. Hm... alright. But I suspect that if they're aquatic, only some of them are partially aquatic.
- Going with the 'hive-mind' idea, it... might explain the weird murals on the walls; but that'd make them very illogical and impractical creatures. Termites aren't all that bright, but at least their nests' designs have practical use. Maybe the precursors' physiology simply gives them some illusion of practicality like how humans think that there are reasons for doing some things in certain ways. That's right, maybe they have a species-wide ocd or something stupid like that, I dunno's. Neuro-typical humans certainly have ocd-like behaviors which many of them neglect.
1. I saw the giant freaking steps, but it doesn't explain why they'd have ramps everywhere else and just stairs there. (Though it is probably because the devs decided a ramp would be easier to animate the player walking up)
2. Knowing species spreading in general, it is likely that the precursors didn't group with other species UNLESS they could 'assimilate' other species into their race. Im thinking now they are kinda like the borg, but organic.
3. Again, the hive - mind is possible, (given the Borg theory, who inspired the precursor architecture) and if they DID have a hive mind, telepathy is possible. Their brains might have been on a computer (like the cache says happened to one), and they had artificial bodies they used to interact, like the avatars from XCOM2. If so, this may have been why the SEL couldn't contact them.
4. They're kinda robots - they're biomechanical / cyborgs. However, it is unknown if they are sapient, (though unlikely, they seem to be pre - programmed to patrol, and the pda says they are "A programmable hunter - killer", so they probably don't have free will. Also, the warpers were created by basically making a frankenfish monster, by putting parts of various species together that lived in 4546B, so they could have made them look like anything they wanted. While the point of them being created to be something that previously existed and survived, they're isn't any creatures that look like them. They look like a cross between the sea emperor, a cave crawler and an unknown tentacled creature. Who knows, the warpers could be the left - over artifical bodies of the precursors
*mic drop*