The Hmg Rush

that_swanky_kidthat_swanky_kid Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9257Members
Build order: two spawns, one armory. Depending on how many marines you've got and you're starting position, you have your marines load up on ammo and secure 2 or 3 resourcers while you've already gotten the armory upgraded (with 1.04, you can start the armory upgrading as soon as you drop it).
Having HMGs roughly around the same time aliens are putting up their first resourcer is demoralizing and flat out cheezy deadly. Downside is that your team will inevitably transform into deathmatching Rambos, but if you can keep them focused the game's over before it's started to the cries of "cheater".

Comments

  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    thats if you can keep the RTs going, if the aliens are not harassing RTs they deserve to get murdered
  • kavasakavasa Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11889Members, Constellation
    Not necesarily, firewater. You can have 6 RTs total up pretty godamn fast. Then, if you keep your marines running around and rebuilding RTs, you just recycle one as soon as you get the "your base is under attack" message.

    It's amazing how fast the res pours in. And once you get a few HMGs dropped, you hit their hive, and even if you lose those first three guys, it's likely every single alien was involved in the defense, and it took a couple minutes and in that time you got 300 resources of income. So the second wave is comprised of level 3 marines with jetpacks...

    The best way to defend against it (imo) is to eat their spawn while they're out building RTs.

    -K
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    edited January 2003
    I've been seeing the HMG rush more and more lately. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

    I don't see why people want to end the round in less than 10 minutes in a friendly game.

    In clan matches, I suppose it's warranted, but it's a cheesy and awfully powerful tactic on pubs right now.

    <b>EDIT:</b> A slightly less cheesy rush I've seen on beta servers is the shotgun rush. I don't think it's a cheesy because it's a bit tougher to use a shotgun than a firehose of death. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    *shrug* - depends on the server size. HMG rushes are hard to do on small servers - you can't hold the RTs and each RT gives you less resources.

    On large servers, you have the ppl to hold RT, and RT gives you more resources each. A 16v16 game gives the marines about 120 res/minute with just three res towers, so if you can hold it for just two minutes, you have about 10 HMG's to drop.

    In an 8v8 game, you are getting about 65 res, if you can hold two extra RT. In a 4v4, two extra gives you about 30 res/min.

    Large servers favors the marines so much its silly.
  • NargNarg Join Date: 2003-01-14 Member: 12289Members
    i belive my clan made this tactic ages ago and succefully pulled it off against fury we did this :


    on ns_nancy

    2 spawn
    1 armoury then upgrade
    3 sets of mines 1 for base and 1 for a rt
    cap a rt and mine it
    wait
    wait
    get all apgrade buildings then get jp
    wait
    wait
    wait
    then equip 2 marines with hmg and jp
    it works with 2 rt and on nacny this tactic is leths becasue of jp in vents


    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    HMG rush in a match is a BIG gamble, one so big my clan will not even try it. If its successful, game over. However if your inital attack fails, it is very difficult to come back, simply because all that res can be put towards upgrades, especially the weapon upgrade witch is basically needed to counter carapace.

    HMGer without JP=could work, but if the squad gets murdered its game over.

    HMGer with JP=Winna
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+Jan 17 2003, 02:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Jan 17 2003, 02:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not necesarily, firewater. You can have 6 RTs total up pretty godamn fast. Then, if you keep your marines running around and rebuilding RTs, you just recycle one as soon as you get the "your base is under attack" message.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    if the aliens let the marines have more than 2-3 RTs, its game over, unless the alien team is terrible, it would be very difficult to get 6 RTs up.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    At most marines can attempt to hold 2-3 RTs. I would suggest going for motion tracking too, as it just helps soo much. Laying mines is pointless, as you have marines defending your base.
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    Mines are good to warn for incomming and maybe take 1 or 2 skulks out, and weaken the rest.
  • BlueGhostBlueGhost Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10337Members
    In a 16vs16 game the marines are fools if they lose.

    BlueGhost
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+Jan 17 2003, 10:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Jan 17 2003, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mines are good to warn for incomming and maybe take 1 or 2 skulks out, and weaken the rest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I disagree...
    Mines are very expensive for maybe killing two skulks in one pack. The commander can warn of incoming, and the marines are defending, so if they are not in a location with a good line of fire, they deserve to die. Mines just slow everything down.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Depends on the map, really. If the CC is off in an awkward location (hera, bast comes to mind), then placing a pack of mines around the CC can help a lot.

    Using mines in the corridors are pointless, however. Killing one skulk for 16 RP isn't much of a bargain. Only reason it used to be possible was because of the ammo-refill bug for mines (drop 4 mines, get an ammo pack, you now have five mines) which made mines cost half a rp each instead of the 1.3 res points they should cost.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members
    holding 6 res points is almost holding all the res points (including hives) on a map.., if you hold that many res points you are probably winning no matter what you do <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • OrcristOrcrist Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11050Members
    edited January 2003
    Earlier today I played on the 'Coronas' server (not sure about the full name) and we basically did an LMG rush <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> After building some IP's & Armory we headed out to secure hive, and that happened to be an active one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It's a 24 people server so imagine a group of over 10 marines rushing to take a position, annihilating any skulk that got in the way... Proves that you don't always need HMG's <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Will be interesting to see if the LMG rush works in 1.04e or later servers... I think Coronas is 1.04d, right? Those 20 hits per second from the hive will heal up skulks REAL fast ...

    Of course, if you can fire on the hive from outside the healing range, it's a bit easier...

    But yes, on larger servers it takes awfully bad marines to loose. You can rush the hive, do the 2hive lockdown, do tech-up without hives, easy HMG rushing ... basically, there are lots of easy ways to win.

    Unfortunately, in order to compensate for large server marines having it so easy, small server marines are taking a beating.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    I'ld personally say people are foolish simply for playing a 16vs16 game.

    Too few people and Kharaa can kill your entire team in one lucky ambush, then destroy your base. Too many and the marine respawn advantage essentially wins the game for them. I find that playing in the 6vs6-9vs9 range gives the best results.
  • CatpokerCatpoker Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 816Members
    i like 7v7, its perfict for the team balance:

    1 comm/gorge
    3 assulters
    2 scouters
    1 base guard

    resources come in slow so its more stratigic then 100 res in a minute and spending it mindlessly
  • USCMLieutenant_RipleyUSCMLieutenant_Ripley Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9818Members
    In 7v7, 1 base defender is NOT enough - since we are talking HMG rush. There is no Motion Tracking, there is no TF, nothing. You have marines securing at MOST 2 RTs and 4 skulks go for marine spawn (2 skulks are noobs and 1 guy is gorge)? Say goodbye to the armory...but organization and knowing what to target in spawn, etc all assumes you have at least 4 decent aliens.
  • verboseverbose Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9968Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--that swanky kid+Jan 17 2003, 12:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (that swanky kid @ Jan 17 2003, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Build order: two spawns, one armory.  Depending on how many marines you've got and you're starting position, you have your marines load up on ammo and secure 2 or 3 resourcers while you've already gotten the armory upgraded (with 1.04, you can start the armory upgrading as soon as you drop it).
    Having HMGs roughly around the same time aliens are putting up their first resourcer is demoralizing and flat out cheezy deadly.  Downside is that your team will inevitably transform into deathmatching Rambos, but if you can keep them focused the game's over before it's started to the cries of "cheater".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I present to you...the Search Function Results (SFR):

    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=16542&hl=rush' target='_blank'>Ick... Nasty Hmg Rush Tactic</a>
    (Makes me feel dirty)
  • OpenGLOpenGL Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10326Members
    I've been trying this strategy out; I did it a couple of times and failed miserably.
    I dropped 1-2 IPs, followed by an immediate armory; and advanced armory upgrade. 25+45 for the armory and upgrade itself. thats 70 resource points. You start out with 99; do the rest of the math yourself.
    By this time, of course, skulks are rushing in from left and right; newbie marines keep building as skulks bite their **** off, and die.
    Anyhow, a rambo marine saves the day (clears the base for a while), and I have around 25-30 resources.
    I truly cannot understand how you manage to hand out more than 1 HMG at this point.

    Left with 2-8 resources, I start giving out waypoints to nearby resource nodes...
    But you've just lost 2 minutes and 90 resource points.
    While you wait for resources to build some resource towers, the one-two groups you sent out start scattering around, feeling lucky.
    They get wasted 90% of the time.
    Now, you're trying to make them stick together as the skulks engage their 2nd round of rushes to your totally defenseless (remember, you wasted 90 resources on the 'HMG Rush', no turret factory, no turrets) base.

    I would truly appreciate an explanation -- I enjoy the concept, I'd love to see it in action and bringing success.
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--[USCM]Lieutenant Ripley+Jan 18 2003, 05:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([USCM]Lieutenant Ripley @ Jan 18 2003, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In 7v7, 1 base defender is NOT enough - since we are talking HMG rush. There is no Motion Tracking, there is no TF, nothing. You have marines securing at MOST 2 RTs and 4 skulks go for marine spawn (2 skulks are noobs and 1 guy is gorge)? Say goodbye to the armory...but organization and knowing what to target in spawn, etc all assumes you have at least 4 decent aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    observe that word "scout" then apply "greater than total infancy intelligence"
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    imo marines with hmgs are as vulnerable to skulks as marines with lmgs as long as the ratio of marines aliens is 1:4 or less. The only real use of the total hardcore hmg rush woudl be to use the hmg to take out the hive, not the skulks. hmg rush only applies to 1:5 & greater. Want that hive destroyed? take competent marines to their noob hive and give them an armoury and make em camp. then the lmg mysteriously has unlimited ammo due to the refil into the gun style of armouries.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--OpenGL+Jan 19 2003, 09:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OpenGL @ Jan 19 2003, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been trying this strategy out; I did it a couple of times and failed miserably.
    I dropped 1-2 IPs, followed by an immediate armory; and advanced armory upgrade. 25+45 for the armory and upgrade itself. thats 70 resource points. You start out with 99; do the rest of the math yourself.
    By this time, of course, skulks are rushing in from left and right; newbie marines keep building as skulks bite their **** off, and die.
    Anyhow, a rambo marine saves the day (clears the base for a while), and I have around 25-30 resources.
    I truly cannot understand how you manage to hand out more than 1 HMG at this point.

    Left with 2-8 resources, I start giving out waypoints to nearby resource nodes...
    But you've just lost 2 minutes and 90 resource points.
    While you wait for resources to build some resource towers, the one-two groups you sent out start scattering around, feeling lucky.
    They get wasted 90% of the time.
    Now, you're trying to make them stick together as the skulks engage their 2nd round of rushes to your totally defenseless (remember, you wasted 90 resources on the 'HMG Rush', no turret factory, no turrets) base.

    I would truly appreciate an explanation -- I enjoy the concept, I'd love to see it in action and bringing success.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    AHAHA...
    Your marines will not be skillful enough to pull off a HMG rush if they cant even beat off the initial skulk rush without losing more than 1-2 people.
  • EdcrabEdcrab Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4324Members
    It's another of those skill things... if you get stuck in certain pub games, well, you're just screwed from the start really, and that's presuming you don't get totalled in the first rush... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Can't agree more with the general consenus here- it works, but it's expensive if it fails. Most seem to go with the time-honoured (well, it's only ever been relevant to NS, but what the hell...) tactic of handing out an HMG (or even shotgun) to the most skilled player(s) and getting the remainder to pick it up if/when they die in the advance. If the aliens time it just right of course, they can sneak up and flood the lot of them... if they don't, they're going to get shot, repeatedly...
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    its true, i was commanding once and 4 of my boys in ha with hmgs died to 2 skulks <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • V_MANV_MAN V-MAN Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6217Members, Constellation
    I prefer the lmg rush
  • T_RATT_RAT Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10967Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I like the phase gate rush with LMG. [ 1.03]
    Get every 1 to guard base until u have PG up and u have scanned the hives [no turetts no tf] .
    Then send your best rambo's in the back way being very quiet and careful.Hopefully most skulks keep rushing. This will buy time for the rambo's to get outside the hive and un-noticed. [they normally hid in a good spot and dont shoot at n e thing.
    Then i drop a PG for them and every 1 goes through for the LMG rush shooting down there hive.
    If base comes under attack i tell them to phase back. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
    I have done this many times and it has worked.
    The biggest problem was that the rambos wouldnt always build it in time.
    Sometimes i drop a bit away from the hive but close enough for constant troops to be going through into the hive.
    havent tried on this on 1.04 yet.
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