DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Gratz, you made me login. :P
While I applaud the effort of making helping videos, im not to happy with this one. Most of the advice for windows is outdated and nonsense. And it annoys me to no end that its still spread around.
I got no comments on the first part. I dont know what the newer jsons and the nolog option does, so meh. Im gona assume it works.
The part where it goes of the rails is the Windows part itself.
Core parking
Parking a CPU is meant to reduce the amount of cores in use which the system is not using. This lowers heat on the die, making your system able to push the remaining cores with stuff like turbo. The 'problem' people have with parking cores is that it takes a small amount of time to unpark a core. Their logic says that if this happens ingame, latency occurs.
Guess what? It doesnt bother to swap cores nonstop on most games because most games use a maximum amount of cores. So you park the cores you dont need and keep the ccores you do not. Which the game keeps active (aka nonparked) because its USING those cores.
This is easily monitored by keeping a eye on cores on a 2nd monitor while playing such games.
It could arguably because a issue if you set core parking percentages to strict, but even the defaults are okish. I run on core parking just fine, and any lag in any game or SN i have NOT traced back to core unparking because... the games uses the cores it wants and doesnt swap them out.
Whats worse, you are putting heat in cores you are not using, making the ones you are using perform more poorly due to lack of turbo.
CPU Frequency
He then goes on putting the CPU frequency on 100%, which roughly causes the same problem.
The logic of doing this is that it takes the CPU time to upscale the frequency between loads. Testing in SN, at least for me, has shown that its not related to lagspikes either.
What this does again however is run the CPU at speeds when it does not need to. Combined with no parked cores, this means your CPU is putting out a lot of heat for 0 gain, again lowering your turbo window. Which boosts the cores you ARE using.
This again isnt hard to graph and check. I did so in the past for SN.. its just no related. Especially new hardware and win10 handle this fine on their own.
I use the deepest sleep states possible, and they dont go into lower frequency because guess why? The CPU is using the needed frequency because the game is running on those cores.
The next part of the vid has stuff again which can matter. Especially with windows update changes features, introducing bugs, and drivers having the same issues.. It is ok to try that out.
Im not saying it works or does not work, its within the realm of possibilities depending on a lot of factors.. pc specific.
Page file
The pagefile part part again is annoying. Windows pages as few things as it can depending on your memory. The more memory, the less paging. Paging is not bad. it can actually free up memory from your other programs, which SN can use.
While paging itself can be a factor in slowing the system down, it usually means your memory is to few. Of course a SSD helps speed up the paging process.
Disabling the page file can lead to catastrophic memory full effects. You do not want to troubleshoot a system which REALLY is out of memory. The default end user will not be able to grasp whats going on. (To give you a clue, random stuff just stops working because there is no memory to assign, like opening a start menu and its blank and empty.)
If setting no page is a performance upgrade for your system, something is VERY wrong in your system to begin with. Like a insane slow disk and lack of memory.
This isnt a 32b Windows xp timeperiod. This is a 64b Win10 period. Paging does 0 harm to performance.
Most default Windows views are.. not as informative on memory usage.
Since i havent done much posts on SN with screenshots of THIS, let me do so now. https://imgur.com/a/TV04yl4
Windows only by default shows the green one. (In use). A lot of memory is actually in standbye. Right now thats only around 2GB but I have seen it fill most of the remaining bar. That reserved memory is still available depending on priority.
Whats the paging you may ask? https://imgur.com/a/eShHDZ2
0, its near 0. Because it doesnt need to page. For the folk who pay attention and see SN not running, yes I quickly made these for the post. And yes its the same when SN is playing. I checked often. (May be screens of it somewhere due to the disk-queue.)
Also the disk-queue is the thing you actually want to keep a eye on. (the bottom numbers and graphs). The disk-queues can grow through paging on a low memory slow disk system yes. It however can also grow when the disk is doing something heavy. Which can happen regardless of paging. A high disk-queue you WILL notice.
The rest of the vid is system specific stuff so I have no real issues with those.
The biggest lag spike stuff I saw the last time I booted up in SN were bug(s). Which I reported, and hopefully are fixed now. (hmm im curious, im gona see if they did fix it.)
@DC_Darkling I know a lot of it is outdated, and I'm assuming Windows is now smart enough to stay away from spinny disks for paging when an SSD is available, or to use a separate HDD as long as the transfer rate isn't worse than the system HDD. Just curious if there were positive results. As far as CPU scaling goes, I imagine ramping cores up or down still takes a small fraction of a second. I'm guessing if this is still a problem then the system is too aggressively trying to power save (power profile set to high performance should fix that.
Personally, I think a lot of the tricks were a bit sketchy for an OS newer than XP, but I see results claimed, so if those can be duplicated, perhaps there's a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed (and then of course we'd need to figure out which tweaks actually were responsible for the increase in performance).
Comments
EDIT: Nvm, looked through the discussions you've created.
While I applaud the effort of making helping videos, im not to happy with this one. Most of the advice for windows is outdated and nonsense. And it annoys me to no end that its still spread around.
I got no comments on the first part. I dont know what the newer jsons and the nolog option does, so meh. Im gona assume it works.
The part where it goes of the rails is the Windows part itself.
Core parking
Parking a CPU is meant to reduce the amount of cores in use which the system is not using. This lowers heat on the die, making your system able to push the remaining cores with stuff like turbo. The 'problem' people have with parking cores is that it takes a small amount of time to unpark a core. Their logic says that if this happens ingame, latency occurs.
Guess what? It doesnt bother to swap cores nonstop on most games because most games use a maximum amount of cores. So you park the cores you dont need and keep the ccores you do not. Which the game keeps active (aka nonparked) because its USING those cores.
This is easily monitored by keeping a eye on cores on a 2nd monitor while playing such games.
It could arguably because a issue if you set core parking percentages to strict, but even the defaults are okish. I run on core parking just fine, and any lag in any game or SN i have NOT traced back to core unparking because... the games uses the cores it wants and doesnt swap them out.
Whats worse, you are putting heat in cores you are not using, making the ones you are using perform more poorly due to lack of turbo.
CPU Frequency
He then goes on putting the CPU frequency on 100%, which roughly causes the same problem.
The logic of doing this is that it takes the CPU time to upscale the frequency between loads. Testing in SN, at least for me, has shown that its not related to lagspikes either.
What this does again however is run the CPU at speeds when it does not need to. Combined with no parked cores, this means your CPU is putting out a lot of heat for 0 gain, again lowering your turbo window. Which boosts the cores you ARE using.
This again isnt hard to graph and check. I did so in the past for SN.. its just no related. Especially new hardware and win10 handle this fine on their own.
I use the deepest sleep states possible, and they dont go into lower frequency because guess why? The CPU is using the needed frequency because the game is running on those cores.
The next part of the vid has stuff again which can matter. Especially with windows update changes features, introducing bugs, and drivers having the same issues.. It is ok to try that out.
Im not saying it works or does not work, its within the realm of possibilities depending on a lot of factors.. pc specific.
Page file
The pagefile part part again is annoying. Windows pages as few things as it can depending on your memory. The more memory, the less paging. Paging is not bad. it can actually free up memory from your other programs, which SN can use.
While paging itself can be a factor in slowing the system down, it usually means your memory is to few. Of course a SSD helps speed up the paging process.
Disabling the page file can lead to catastrophic memory full effects. You do not want to troubleshoot a system which REALLY is out of memory. The default end user will not be able to grasp whats going on. (To give you a clue, random stuff just stops working because there is no memory to assign, like opening a start menu and its blank and empty.)
If setting no page is a performance upgrade for your system, something is VERY wrong in your system to begin with. Like a insane slow disk and lack of memory.
This isnt a 32b Windows xp timeperiod. This is a 64b Win10 period. Paging does 0 harm to performance.
Most default Windows views are.. not as informative on memory usage.
Since i havent done much posts on SN with screenshots of THIS, let me do so now.
https://imgur.com/a/TV04yl4
Windows only by default shows the green one. (In use). A lot of memory is actually in standbye. Right now thats only around 2GB but I have seen it fill most of the remaining bar. That reserved memory is still available depending on priority.
Whats the paging you may ask?
https://imgur.com/a/eShHDZ2
0, its near 0. Because it doesnt need to page. For the folk who pay attention and see SN not running, yes I quickly made these for the post. And yes its the same when SN is playing. I checked often.
Also the disk-queue is the thing you actually want to keep a eye on. (the bottom numbers and graphs). The disk-queues can grow through paging on a low memory slow disk system yes. It however can also grow when the disk is doing something heavy. Which can happen regardless of paging. A high disk-queue you WILL notice.
The rest of the vid is system specific stuff so I have no real issues with those.
The biggest lag spike stuff I saw the last time I booted up in SN were bug(s). Which I reported, and hopefully are fixed now. (hmm im curious, im gona see if they did fix it.)
Personally, I think a lot of the tricks were a bit sketchy for an OS newer than XP, but I see results claimed, so if those can be duplicated, perhaps there's a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed (and then of course we'd need to figure out which tweaks actually were responsible for the increase in performance).