The Marines Have Two Hives
MrPink
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Now what do you do?</div> After the marines have a phase and several turrets and marines in two hives, most aliens give up and encourage everyone to F4 with them, but it is still very possible (although difficult) to win. 99 times out of 100 the marines have spent all their resources and time on defending the two hives. This leaves their main base wide open, so an organized skulk rush will have no problems taking it out. They will surely relocate to a hive, but that doesn't matter because the resources you have cost them (along with the RT node in their main base) will signifigantly slow them down. The skulks need to contain them in each hive, especially the one they relocated to after you destroyed their main base, while the gorge gets every other resource node on the map. With a gorge getting 100% of the resources from all but two towers, building is incredibly fast. Literally max out the amount of OC's and DC's you can build across the entire map. Force them to siege every little thing, and push healing chambers close to (but not inside) each hive. If they put a siege up (which they surely will) you have forced them to waste more valuable resources, which they desperatly need at this point. It's not a big deal, just move your blockade back a bit. It is important to have a gorge that is aware of where siege is and it's range. Now that the marines are stuck in the hives, your skulks can really do some damage. Every turret they kill won't come back for awhile, until they can finally get in and take it back.
Comments
Pure BS, most two hive lockdowns don't start with a spawn rush (they use the more popular and less risky phase rush). If they didn't spawn rush then they've got loads of usefull stuff in base and so don't wana move, if a 7 man skulk team hits with gorge backup building offys they won't have TIME to re-cycle cos they'll be too busy getting people to:
a) defend
and when this is hopless
b) re-locate
As soon as they make the relocate decision they cycle the phase (to stop the aliens phasing in) but skulks can probably kill it befor hand, with 2 skulks you can kill a res tower befor it has time to cycle. You can kill an obs with 1 and a spawn with 1.
The important thing isn't really killing the 2 spawns, obs and phase at their base anyway (total replacment cost 25 + 30 + 15 + 15)
Its the res tower. With 2 (or even only 1 on some maps) res towers they'll be significantly slower at getting up turrets and siege, if your 8 man team now go lurk (Which you can afford) you've got a serious ammount of artillery. I still have to try it but I imagine 7 lurks on top of powersilo who hide out up there and then all open fire symltaniously are going to do some serious, serious damage.
So don't be so damn negative.
BlueGhost
Also good to try spam Oc's and catch em off guard.
As for Powersilo, it's nice that the tactic only works at one hive on one map... But I think it's more productive to work on hive seizing tactics that can be used more generally. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And the last time I tried to attack a marine base in powersilo with a lerk, the damn commander had put turrets up there. *grumbles*
on maps where each hive has a node, even if u kill their spawn, 2 nodes is enough to tech with <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gorge rush. It's a cheap tactic, but it can be insanely powerful if you've got enough people in on it.
All we had was the Eclipse Command hive left, and even that didn't have many defenses left. We got 6 people to evolve to gorge while in eclipse, then we all moved as a group to the marine base. Once we were through the doors, we went wild. We'd drop an OC, build for a few seconds, then move forward. The gorges coming behind us would take a few seconds to contribute to the building, then move along. We'd always be healspraying if anything was in front of us.
We managed to crush the marine's fairly well-defended main base in about 90 seconds. Not one alien died during that assault - it was mostly gorges, with a few skulks in to do some extra damage. I think our team kills went from around low-30's to high-40's. Not bad for a raid that lasted less than 2 minutes. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once they lost their main base, the marine morale dropped to nearly non-existant. They lost pretty much all their tech and their spawns, but they obviously managed to get a cmdr in one of the hives before we destroyed it. We took back the Core hive in much the same fashion, then did the typical fade/lerk thing on the last hive.
If you play to win and don't care how, then this tactic will certainly help. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for Powersilo, it's nice that the tactic only works at one hive on one map... But I think it's more productive to work on hive seizing tactics that can be used more generally. And the last time I tried to attack a marine base in powersilo with a lerk, the damn commander had put turrets up there. *grumbles* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Viaduct, Powersilo, Refinery, - lerks.
Comp Core - invincible skulks of doom (sorry rebo holds the patent).
Everywhere else you need a combined force of lerks skulks and a gorge way back building a WOL to go back to for healing, the second the siege is down your gorge legs it forwards and blocks the phase then spams offys and starts building them (as they'll take some heat off the skulks biting down turrets/tfs and royally mash any marine who stands still), during the assult the lerks can stay back and use spikes on marines (as they're the only really dangerous thing).
If the marines have re-located it changes nothing, you assult the weakest base in terms of marines/turrets. If you're capable of using only half your force to secure a hive the aliens your playing against suck at organization.
BlueGhost
BUT, if theres a siege in comp core, then its not really going to help take that hive back.
The best way to stop a phase rush, is to get a gorge and 7 carapace level 3 skulks to attack a hive before the tfac goes up, planting oc's on the phase gate, then hold the two hives.
of cource the commander was insanly good + welder happy
1) The marines don't have turrets at one of their spots
Rush it with carapace skulks, and possible some O/D chambers right outside for healing.
2) The marines have all their spots turreted, but not all spots sieged
Pick the spot with the lowest amount of turrets and no siege, and build lots of O and D chambers right outside it, and have skulks rush in, bite stuff and rush out. If you get enough D chambers and skulks, they won't have any chance to make a siege or counter with a GL.
3) The marines have all their spots sieged, but one spot has only 1-2 turrets
Skulk rush it, and try to take down marines, turrets, phase, TF.
4) The marines have all their locations with plenty of turrets and sieges
Go lerk and try to spike the TF from a vent or something, and if it goes down, bring skulks in to take out phase gate/ marines. Then guard the entry to the hive, destroy the rest of their stuff, and build up. Keep in mind that this will almost always fail, especially against marine teams that know what they are doing. A decent commander would alert the team to the lerk, and weld the TF, and possibly kill the lerk. This is really only a desperation tactic which will only work if the commander is a newbie, and the players don't guard all the locations. Another desperation thing is to chomp on the CC and hope the commander doesn't notice. This is even more likely to fail. Usually in this situation I just give up, because success rates are so low, and I've never seen a game turned around from this situation.
Take out the turret that defends the back of the turret fac, bugger the rest.
Maintace and command where theres, they where all oh oh we are going to die, meanwhile i've taken down that turret at that back, basically destroyed the cc and holaring down voice comm to get to maintance. They arrive and we all eat the phase as the tf is down.
A gorge turns up and suddenly we have two hives and they have one.
Games can be turned around so easily its unbelievable, one sec we had marines on our last hive, next sec in a last desperate attempt we rushed cc, they left back undefended on tanith and no more cc. I shout down the mic kill no marines so they do not spawn.
It ain't over untill its over.
Gorge rush. It's a cheap tactic, but it can be insanely powerful if you've got enough people in on it.
All we had was the Eclipse Command hive left, and even that didn't have many defenses left. We got 6 people to evolve to gorge while in eclipse, then we all moved as a group to the marine base. Once we were through the doors, we went wild. We'd drop an OC, build for a few seconds, then move forward. The gorges coming behind us would take a few seconds to contribute to the building, then move along. We'd always be healspraying if anything was in front of us.
We managed to crush the marine's fairly well-defended main base in about 90 seconds. Not one alien died during that assault - it was mostly gorges, with a few skulks in to do some extra damage. I think our team kills went from around low-30's to high-40's. Not bad for a raid that lasted less than 2 minutes. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once they lost their main base, the marine morale dropped to nearly non-existant. They lost pretty much all their tech and their spawns, but they obviously managed to get a cmdr in one of the hives before we destroyed it. We took back the Core hive in much the same fashion, then did the typical fade/lerk thing on the last hive.
If you play to win and don't care how, then this tactic will certainly help. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That just about sounds like the best way to do it, if not the only real possible solution.