Exploration Plus Update Idea (PLZ LOOK DEVS)
awesomeguy101
Join Date: 2016-06-21 Member: 218886Members
Join Date: 2016-06-21 Member: 218886Members
Subnautica is a game about exploration and survival. EXPLORATION! We need more biomes. If the devs started taking biome ideas and working on a few Subnautica would be even more amazing! If a few fan ideas were implemented in the far future of the development of Subanutica we would have more to explore. Subnautica has such a low replay ability value! If a few biomes were added in all at once it would make Subnautica a lot less stale after a few times. Leave a few suggestions here!
Comments
There are more biomes planned for the future. At least two (do you want spoilers?), and there's a big hope the arctic biome is not scrapped. The only biome reasonably consistently asked for by the fanbase UWE doesn't have a word on is an underwater air-filled cave.
And uh, you do realize that one biome alone isn't ever added in in one go, let alone "a few"? Planning out a design takes time and designing NPCs is no walk in the park either. Every biome so far has been added in bits and tuned over time.
While it may feel a little linear and predictable right now, that doesn't really give it a lower replay value to be personally. I'd love some more unpredictability and random elements present though. Not as in random terrain generation and the like, but events that might take place... Severe weather, something to make nights less merciful maybe.... That's actually one thing I'd like to see - is more dangerous nights. Right now, aside from it just getting darker, the only thing it really does is make stalkers have a wider aggro-range doesn't it? Other than that, there's nothing really stopping you from just grabbing a flashlight and continuing your gathering as if it was still day time.
EDIT:
Replay value is an odd thing. If the game is too fast, people hit their personal "finished" and get bored. If the game is too slow, people just get bored. If there's a plot, people rush it as fast as possible to the end, hit a personal "finished" and get bored. If there's no plot, people go directionless and get bored. I'm noticing a pattern...
And the silliest part is, all those things overlap to various extents. What one person finds will be totally different for another person.
...So, in that case, the devs should do the best they can, and make the game they want to make. Which, I'm pretty sure they're doing, so win.
A few random things would make it interesting, but I wouldn't say it had low replay value as it stands.
Or putting it in a different perspective, before you just looked up what biome the fragments were in, then fly through them with the seaglide/moth and only dive down once you spot one.
I'm going moonpool hunting right now and it's been trickier diving down into the wrecks to try and find them than it was when they were just comfortably sitting out in the open beckoning me to them, since now I actually have to navigate a maze of wreckage below my seamoth's crush depth to try and find things to scan, as opposed to sitting on the seafloor out in the wide open.
Before and after, either way going to the wiki's going to spoil things. Navigating the wrecks IMO is harder than just grabbing them off the seafloor, especially if said wreck is beneath the maximum depth of the subs you have.
As for the actual topic of the thread being more biomes. I pretty much agree with everyone else in that you have to realistic and mindful of they way in which they are developed and implemented. You also have to keep in mind you are technically playing a game that is not finished. If you were to only grab it on release day it would be as you say, an instant introduction to what... 15-17 biomes? I too would welcome new biomes but do not ever expect that 2-3 would suddenly turn up in a single update, even on release day. Regarding replay-ability, I do agree that it can get stale. All games do once you've encountered and dealt with the challenges they provide enough times to become over familiar with them. Again agreeing with Rezca, I think some random elements would make things more interesting, but only until you once again have encountered them enough time to know exactly how to deal with them. Procedural / random terrain generation would likely ruin a lot of the level design that has gone into the handcrafted map and cause issues with progression, especially for new players.
One thing that could possibly be done is what was suggested in the thread about that giant sub. At the end point of the game, the player can either choose to use a rocket and finish it, all use that sub / something like it, to navigate through the void to procedural / random areas. These areas could also be the only place new biomes to later be implemented would generate. This way the player has something to find and do that is new after the game has "finished"; implementation of new biomes does not have to be made to fit in with what already exists (easier implementation), the void is no longer an endless zone of nothingness (but still pretty close to that and I still think a large creature event should be there to stop exploration with cyclops, seamoth or swimming); and new players will have the same experience we've all enjoyed from our first play through. I even imagine the large sub you use to move through the void only allowing 1 trip (ie its power depletes as soon as it detects you are out of the void biome again, therefore in a new procedurally generated area). Each area you come across would then provide a new challenge to be able to get it back to full power. The wrecks would probably be replaced with precursor structures, where 1 in each procedural area would unlock access to the teleportation network, or else maybe they just allow bases and cyclops to do teleportation like I suggested before in my big list. This stops you from being cut off from the original game area or subsequent areas as you continue to explore. I suspect these procedural areas would not have all 15-17 biomes in them but rather a random amount, maybe 3, maybe 20 (but probably not 20). This could lead to a situation where you arrive at the new resource deprived area and have to rely on the resources you bought with you to set up a base and gain access to the teleportation network to get back. The challenge would then be to see how far you can explore and how many new biomes you can encounter after the main area is finished before you run out of resources or get stuck and have to restart. For this purpose perhaps the big sub should also be able to launch the game finishing rocket. I think this would add quite a bit of replay-ability.
As a fan of Don't Starve, I can affirm that map randomization doesn't add that much replay value, or at all. I just spend my first day every time looking for a Savannah Biome with a sizeable beefalo herd and settle near a road. Every other biome is basically a shopping center that might or might not be close by but never in a way that gameplay is affected. I know this strategy is the main one among the fanbase.
To paraphrase Jim Sterling, there's only so much new experience in having item X over here one day when previously it was over there.
The kind of replay value Subnautica is pursuing is a long journey of constant rewards (fragments, scans), which goes a way in keeping interest fresh and creating a difference between begin and end that makes it interesting to start all over. At least, when it's coherent and creates some room for different approaches. Much as I want more stuff, I do think it's wise that UWE decided to pull polishing to the front to tie things together first. Don't Starve is good, but Klei has left it in an unpretty state where many aspects just don't come together and there's limited word if the balancing content being created for the multiplayer will make it to the singleplayer.
It depends what you consider a biome (Does the Aurora count? Do all the separate cave systems count? Do the two BKZs differ significantly? Is the Lost River one or five areas? etc), but we're talking about a comfortable 20 biomes that goes well over 30 if you're generous. Currently implemented surface biomes alone are 15-17.
Listening to good old Astley on loop now... damn you...
At this stage I would pretty much expect polishing to be the priority. The suggestion I made about having the generated content unlock at the end of the game is more some distant goal after release. I don't at all expect them to devise some way to computer generate biomes etc before release when the game up until now has been built without this method. I think though, it could create some replay-ability and provide a way to easily add new biomes without effecting everything they've made up to this point. Everything we are use to would still be there unchanged and would basically still encapsulate the entirety of the main story arc. It would just mean once you can build the rocket, you would also be able to build a large sub that you then go around the void in to find these generated areas. They would sort of act like the sevii islands from pokemon except underwater and due to randomness you might arrive at one, find you don't have the access to necessary resources to leave, and be forced to launch your rocket from the sub ending that play through. It would sort of be a hardcore version of exploration and survival, where you try to go as far as you can, to as many "void islands" as you can, seeing as much of the end / after game biomes / content as possible. I think the player could meet new challenges such as solar pannels being ineffective because the terrain is too far down, or there are no heat vents for thermal, no uranium crystals for nuclear, the starting zone of the "void island" has reapers, titanium only exists as a large resource deposit etc etc. This would stop that situation you described of players just finding the biome / setup that works for them and repeating the same process each time (there is a real chance their preferred biome /strategy won't be in or work in the "void island" they arrive at). Hell, you could even scoreboard the thing, see who could get to the most "void islands" before having to end their game. It would be a good way to add things like the fabled arctic biome without that weird combination of tropical looking waters suddenly transitioning into ice or having to worry about what items to put in that presumably surface biome so that it doesn't mess with the already implemented level design or worry about how it will fit into the current biome jigsaw.
The more I think about end /after game generated "void islands" the more I like it, I might make a separate post about it and see what the response is.
I was pretty much just thinking of how many areas feel significant and distinctly different from other areas. Tunnels I consider as apart of the biome they are in. That's not to say I think of the jelly shroom biome as an extension of the grassy plateaus or something like that. I would call those type places caves or cave biomes. Pretty much, if I can drive a cyclops through it, it's a cave, otherwise it's a tunnel; and if it's a tunnel I'am unlikely to consider it a biome.
Story's pretty optional if the base gameplay is entertaining enough. Coming from Monster Hunter, story's almost entirely absent - except for possibly MH4G, which made an attempt at a story but was still for all intents and purposes pretty basic. The games are even more linear than Subnautica is, early game progression is pretty darn slow and if you're into the Co-op side of the games, which the series almost entirely revolves around, then it's even more excruciating - assuming you bother with the offline 'story' at all. Most people seem to just play it long enough to unlock the co-op missions and get some basic equipment then ignore it entirely.
And yet, it's pretty successful at what it does. A lot of replay value there despite being about as linear as a measuring stick and having just barely more story than Minecraft. (Exception: There's a good amount of background development, but it's only got passing references to it and the main plotlines generally don't touch on it at all) On the other hand, MH's not a survival game - though I think a survival game set in that series would be a pretty cool spin-off - so the comparison's not all that great.
Subnautica's got a pretty good story, the progression is about as fast as you make it (I tend to take my time with it), and even without any random generation the underlying game is quite solid - I actually love starting over after a 10 ~ 16 hour game to begin a new since the early game 'grind' is actually fairly enjoyable for me. I love that working up from nothing to having a large research base going
However in reference to what you have just wrote Rezca, I do agree randomization by itself is not going to somehow deliver game play. That game you mention was pretty much lacking game play at all and tried to rely on different looking things that all behaved the same way and required the same interaction to somehow try and generate content. The difference here is that there actually does exist game play which is kind of sectioned by the different biomes. If you randomize biomes and therefore game play then you introduce new challenges. For instance the first thing you probably do is always pick up some metal scrap, quartz, copper, food. What if you arrived at a void island and all the biomes are below 700m and your only vehicle is a prawn suit. That is straight away a new challenge; my best guess with how to deal with the situation would be to get 2 storage lockers, equip propulsion arms, fill your inventory, the prawn suit, and the lockers with resources you think you might need, then grab onto the lockers and plunge into the murky water and hope you can quickly find a thermal vent or some uranium to power a base and generate oxygen (there is no way a prawn suit is boosting 700m back up the surface). The idea is that at this point, the game doesn't care if you can survive or not when you arrive at each void island. Again, this generation thing is not to replace what is already done for the game, the whole area that has been developed so far stays as is, that is permanent. The generation only comes in when the player starts to venture away from that area into the void after finishing the main game.
Subnautica is beautiful. Every part of it is beautiful, and that's because its hand crafted. I'd rather have a small map that's 100% awesome than an infinite map that only has a chance to be.
Randomly/procedurally generated terrain post-game is nothing I'll vote against, but this feature would be thoroughly uninteresting to me personally, so obvs I would prefer to see the Arctic Biome in the core gameplay where I'd actually come across it. I don't think it has to be immersion breaking either. Have it be completely surrounded by mountains so its water can barely interact with the rest of the ocean for starters and have the mountains contain cold traps to facilitate ice caves, which in turn interact with the enclosed water. Some suspension of disbelief would be required, but I think we're already doing that with the whole biome system.
You kind of have to explore the wrecks but barley. and you can just skip searching the wrecks by building a corridor in it and then it deletes the wreck but leaves everything that was inside. also sorry for necroing
What is really bugging me the most is that as the game is NOW, I am trying to get closure on my sister. OK, but it would be beyond fantastic if either she was STORED in an Architect cell somewhere just before death and with Alan you could bring her back... Or perhaps she has actually been abandoned by Alterra and was stuck in some place where she could live off heat fruit but only get her penglings out to help her. You need your snowfox to jump to GET to her and her limited tech (which is why she is stranded).
It will so very very disappointing if she just plain vanilla DIED and I can't accept it, so I go down to the surface for closure.. ugh. AND I go and do stuff just to get Alan out of my head.
What if ALTERA is going to come back, is mutating the Karra (for a weapon or some such) Want's Alan's tech and finds him out... I have to help Alan reactivate the cannon to keep altera out and with his help we build a ship and with sister in tow, we go out after finding if Alan's people still are alive. Again, we end up needing to GET some of Alan's tech (like we needed to in SN1) to escape and thwart Alterra. I mean THAT kind of is fun in a story i'm invested in with negotiations with Alan.
I'm going to be so very disappointed if I"m here to dig up info on my sister, find her dead and try to get Alan out of my body. Current story line is BETTER than before, but if THAT is it then the story is just uninspired. Before I was exploring a world so I could get back home. AND AS I HIT THAT LAUNCH button, there was a serious hesitation because this is a NICE planet that has given me a life and a world. I just need to respect this world and its not a bad place to live.... But still. I leave and go home.
Here, I want a reason to DO what I'm doing. Got in over my head. Some crisis is brewing. I'm going to fix the problems and make it work. Maybe get alterra to leave and let colonists come live here. Create a place for humans under the sea. SOME thing bigger than I yelled at my sister before she died and now I have issues. double ugh.
^~^