Rushing Marine Defenses

Frahg · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">an opinion from both sides</div> I didn't want to post this in strategy, cause I want potential marines to comment on it as well.

When I'm playing as Kharaa the most annoying strategy (and one I see often) is when the marines rush and (through luck and pub-server discoordination) manage to secure two hives. Then they proceed to turtle and protect their two hives, and nothing sort of sheer luck can uproot them.

I really hate this. I was playing on this server the other day and the marines secured two hives, and we just couldn't get in there to take one of them out. Every resource they had went to building another turret in their existing bases, while we got all the resource points on the map. Despite the fact that we had virtually limitless resources, there was nothing we could do to them cause all we had were skulks and lerks. This game went on for over two hours, because we wouldn't let them leave their bases, but at the same time we couldn't get inside to hurt them. Eventually they all got ha and hmgs and crushed us, but it was a miserable game the whole way through--we knew we were going to lose, but there was nothing we could do about it.

I really think that the Kharaa need less reliance on their hives for progression, or need to be able to purchase multiple upgrades (at a higher cost) or something, but that argument aside: how have you dealt with this tactic? I can't think of a good way around this tactic besides a well-executed, coordinated attack (which rarely happens on pubs). Or, the obvious, preventive maintenance. But those arguments aside, once the marines get the base up what can the aliens do? Do any aliens have suggestions? What about Marine commanders? What potential weakenesses do they see in their bases that might be exploitable by aliens that I haven't realized?

--Frahg

Wildcard · January 2003

Well this is going to sound harsh...but im just being blunt. You(the alien team) didnt do its job if the marines were able to grab both hives. As aliens your sole purpose(besides rush if ya'll have one) is to hinder marine progress, which you failed to do. Constantly scout the hives and nodes and if you see signs of marine expansion tell your team to get there. And if marines manage to get a mini expansion going(node, phase, and tf with turrets) you need to know what needs to die first. So many times i will see Aliens drop the TF and go after the disabled turrets while completely ignoring the phase gate.

cybrangl · January 2003

I have been on teams that have come back from this scenerio. Once you have them trapped and control the nozzles, you are gold. Just set up OC and let them wipe out the dfenses in hives. I really can't see why you can't hold them if the are trapped in base with no resources.

Ollj · January 2003

Worst thing aliens can do is not a single alien rushing.
best thing a commander can do then is taking 2 hives because in that case he has the ressources for it.
Got it?
Second worse thing aliens can do is EVERY alien rushing. this will just have 2 quick possible ends.
1. Marine base dies.
2. every alien dies, marines know the main hive, and if they know hot to play they can easily rush the main hive because aliens respawn slowly.

BelrickNZ · January 2003

Yip im with u. Its a major problem on pubs. Marines are forced to work together as a team, throw in a experienced comm (most are now) then the aliens are in deep poo.

A alien team has to hold spawn (very vulnerable) rush marine hive, and guard one of 2 hives while securing res.

The problem is lack of team work. On pubs how often is there teamwork? very few unless a clan team stacks or sumthing this results in players spread out all over the map getting picked off. Marines can rush and take a hive very easy these days thru use of numbers.

Maybe when players get used to each other teamwork will improve like it did for marines?

Damned if i know the answer but now its so bad for me that ill only play NS with mates or players i know use voice and teamwork.

MadJackMcJack · January 2003

The main problem is alien teamwork. Marines tend to work together, probably because there is someone directing them. Aliens, however, tend to operate alone or in pairs, only rarely forming big groups after the initial rush. Add the fact that, after a lot of losses, skulks spawn in one at a time and rush off, and instead of a concentrated horde of skulks forming a living carpet of teeth and claws, the marines have to deal with a trickle, killing a skulk and then waiting for another, rather than killing one and then having to deal with more.

nicuss · January 2003

This scenario can be relatively easily defeated early on by a well coordinated alien team. Have your gorg save up some resources, say 60-70, and then find out which hive doesn't have siege yet. Then all together rush in, skulks take on the marines while the gorge drops as many OCs as possible. The OCs will neutralize the turrets if well placed (turrets will shoot OCs not skulks) plus you have a gorg to heal the skulks. The turret farm won' live long if all skulks go for marines, phase, TF in that order.

If you wait until the have siege in both hives and base then it's game over, unfortunately.

One thing that could be done is to allow different chambers to be built at a much higher cost. Say 50 res per chamber if you don't have a hive for it (and 14 if you do). That way, the two-hive lockdown will eventually have to deal with celerity/silenced-cloaked-carapaced sculks, and aiming at them will be alot harder by both marines and turrets.

Lucid · January 2003

Yes tower rushing before they get siege is usually the only way. The only other thing i can suggest is a coordinated attack on a certain order of turrets, scout out the base very quickly, find the side of the factory with the fewest turrets, think up an easy way to describe those turrets to your teammates and get a skulk team together and attack those turrets all at once they will fall so quickly it wont even be funny. The idea here is that each turret can only shoot 1 skulk at a time so the damage is distributed. If you do it right only a few turrets will have a view on your team.

bad: <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

good:
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

TF

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

The more people on your team the better. You could bring a gorge along to heal and a lerk to either help bring the turrets down faster or snipe marines that come through the phase. It's importtant that once one side of the TF is blind to make sure you chew the TF and not the other turrets. Always be ready to chew the rine that comes through the phase. This requires tons of team work so do the best you can to get your team together.

SoBe_Dragon · January 2003

have you ever thought about protecting the second hive?

Round starts, one player goes gorge, one player guards the gorge, the player and the gorge go to a hive, the gorge sets up defense at the hive and at possible siege points. The gorge caps 1 or 2 RT's. If all of the teammates cap off their resources, the gorge will have more than enough to secure the second hive. Drop second hive, fades > light marines.

There ya go, problem solved without changing anything. Ignorant players...../sigh

coil · January 2003

Actually, 1.04 beefs up the Lerk's spikes a bit. Makes him a much better option at 1 hive.

lagger · January 2003

I'm a very lazy person so i only read teh first 5 replys to this thread and i thought i would give my somewhat cowish opinion on it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> as i do not ushally post in this forums.
hints and cows to get back a 2nd hive:
1) When the marines have taken 2 hives with turret farms and cow patrols, you have two options first off.
a. Gather outside their main and take out observatory 1st, then spawn portals.. and phase through the rest of the hives killing any and all marines (hard and somewhat impossible against a good team)
b. Gather outside a taken hive, have your gorg build defense and offense towers rapidly before the marines are able to pull of sieges at these hives after sending 1 suicidal skulk to see if they left any blind side on a tf.
Little 1: Having 1 gorg is important.. always AND VERY MUCH SO WHEN DOING THIS, lack of rsr may hinder your oc/dc expansion into the taken hive
Little 2: If no marines around (Hopefully although good team will phase in fast) have 2-3 marines skulk dance around a turret guarding a weak tf side and take the turret out 1st then ram sack the blind side of this tf.
Little 3: after you get your dc/oc expansion dont be afraid to follow your skulks to the tf and heal spray them while they attack things.. gorgs with lvl 3 carapace are strong to <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> they arnt called fattys for nothing! DONT BE afraid to use your spit gun... 22 dmg willl do dmg!!

Ps: Aliens should never rush unless you are certain your enemy is unable to cope with your superior skulking, because as it stands skulks r VERY underpowered in early game until 1-3 dc's come up. And gorgs you MUST get 1-2 dc's right off the get go... if you see your skulks dying or them even hinting a rush because the skulk is only ohh so cute.

*Imo these r the things that would need to be done*

Cetra3 · January 2003

lerks rock, i reckon a team of 2 skulks and a lerk could take off a hmg + ha marine easily

While the lerk shoots spikes from distances, and the skulks bite the crap out of the marine you could take him down.

Long live the bat things!!!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> ::lerk::

Onuma · January 2003

Yes the general strategy to win for the teams is:

Marines - RUSH.

Kharaa - Contain the marines until you get that 2nd hive and crush them with Fades.

Doing either of these effectively will result in your win.

THAU · January 2003

A rather cheesy tactic when there is no siege is to:

Gather your skulks around their most undefended place with 1-2 gorges as backup.
Skulks rush the base.

Gorges build an offence chamber on the phase. This prevents marines from phasing in (in 1.04 do not try to build the offence though as it will teleport you through - just kill the marines and distract the turrets)

If the gorges heal you can take that hive back or the marine base.

If you take the marine base - make sure most of your skulks go out and KILL any marines that are left over - or the marines will still be left with 2 hives and have built a command center.

Had 3 stupid gorges last night ruin the game for us (or so we thought) on eclipse. No defense chambers and smart marines who secured 2 hives straight away. After about 10 mins of probing the hives they had siege at Computer Core and eclipse was well defended.

Last resort was their light defended marine base. We grouped up 7 skulks and 1 gorge. Rushed the base killing 5 marines there. Gorge built on phase gate so other marines couldn't backup. Then once the base was down we killed the last 4 marines in eclipse before the infantry portal was up.

In less than 2 minutes we had gone from losing severly to a complete win. The marines didn't know what hit them.

Rushing Marine Defenses

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