Whats The Best Turret Configuration?

slaps · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Turrets can be useless in bad positions</div> Noticed that some newish/noobish commanders place turrets (at marine bases) on either side of entrances/hallways. When they do this I've noticed how ineffective this makes say 4 turrets covering 2 doorways.

What usually happens is that the skulks simply run passed the doors and turrets and b4 the turrets can line up the alien they've zipped behind a wall or other structure and usually start munching on portals and cc's whilst the turrets are way out of range or simply dont have the line of sight.
** This is a terrible waste of 76 res pts ** <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

I've noticed that good commanders place turrets very close too or in front of crucial structures. It seems that if a skulk is forced to confront a turret head on the turret is way more effective. Maximum exposure seems the key.
Although * DONT BUNCH UP TURRETS IN ONE TIGHT POSTION * This just makes acid rocket spam easier for fades.

Also the triangle configuration of turrets either around or in front of structures seems very effective although that means 57 res pts. If u place a TF for instance up in a corner one turret can usually protect it as the aliens cant get behind it.

Other ideas to consider are putting turrets in hard to reach places like on crates etc.

This message is in the interests of Marine res point conservation <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'>

You guys got any other turret configurations that u found effective? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

FlatlineUTD · January 2003

The two arguments you're going to hear in this thread will be for either:

- Triangle formation
or
- TFac in the corner

I've personally had much better luck with the triangle formation, but if you can get the TFac in the corner without leaving any space for a Skulk, go for it. Whenever I'm Skulking I can always manage to find a gap, which is why I tend to use the triangle formation more.

slaps · January 2003

Ok thats the sort of info I'm after
Thanx <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

porp · January 2003

Well, it's an obvious function of room geometry. You're right to say that 'maximum exposure is the key' of course, because the more line-of-sight a turret has to a target, the better probability of doing damage. A TF in a corner has eliminated 2 of 4 faces that a skulk can attack. This means you can potentially use half the turrets to watch over the TF.

What you want to maximize with turret positioning is coverage. Ideally, all turrets can hit all parts of the room.

What you want to minimize is the number of turrets, because, of course, resources are often scarce.

TeoH · January 2003

The most effective turret formation is no turrets at all, if they aren't essential then don't use them. They aren't normally worth the effort unless you have a multiple res-point location, or you absolutely need a siege. Some people may eventually tower up hives, but in many cases it can be better to travel light early on, rather than commiting alot of time and res to 1 location. A single phase in a hive with a marine covering it and the rest ready to jump through as needed will be enough to discourage anything short of a full organised skulk rush, which is all you need to do at the beginning of the game. Towering comes later and is optional.

There isnt much to say about tower positioning if you actual do start towering something up. TFs in corners are preferable, also pay attention to the positioning of the TFs area, in some locations such as ns_nothing cargo/eclipse south loop it is possible to support turrets across a wide area with a single TF and save yourself res. 3 res points can be covered by turrets from a single TF in cargo. Always remember that skulks can run straight past any turret taking minimal damage, the turret only really discourages them from chomping buildings, they don't block a passage. Turrets at the entrance to an area are worthless, as they are simply bypassed. And anything short of the most insane turret field can still be taken by 1 hive aliens if it isnt reinforced by marines. The first structure down in a strategic location is a phase, not a TF.

vvInter · January 2003

Some notes / tips about tfacs :

- Tf / turrets are a bad idea, cost lots of resources and go down fast .
Against a good alien team, let say they will attack with 4 (and carapace), 4-5 turrets (in square formation) wont hold if there are no marines around.

- The best cost / effectiveness to protect your bases is placing landmines near your structures.

- Never ever place tf and turrets near just one resource point whitout any strategic containance , for example: processing, holoroom on hera is okey, access alpha / horseshoe on eclipse is not okey.

- As said as many times bout turret placement:
1) Always try to put your tf in corners, so there are only 2 sides that can be hit
2) Always try to have at least 2 turrets covering each side
3) Placing mines near the tf and near turrets will help you alot

- Some weapon damage upgrade is required for turrets to combat carapaced skulks.

In short: try to avoide turrets as much as possible, bether spend the resources in teching up to jet hmg and rambo those hives <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

slaps · January 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>
Hmm I agree about using mines!

I find them very effective but only when I place them myself <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
I'm not making out I'm a leet miner but I find that I have to get of the cc and place them myself as that many new players simply have very poor understanding of where to place mines effectively.

Much to my frustration and the frustration of others I find that if I request mines off my commander I'm usually told "NO!" and that they are a waste of resources(8res for mines <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> ). The Commander then goes ahead and wastes 75+ res pts building poorly placed turrets.

I'm not saying that mines are the be all and end all of base protection but they do "SLOW DOWN" the early attacks enough to get the marine base established...that is if they are properly laid.

Error404 · January 2003

Once turrets are upgraded to Level 3, they become very effective against skulks.

MutantMFM · January 2003

If you make a base in a hive you need to cover basically every blind spot. So one skulk won't eat your entire base. And I love the level three gun upgrade it makes the turrets and other guns so much stronger. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Kitsune · January 2003

Mutant here brings up an excellent point. If you're going to place turrets, then you should definitely be putting resources regularly into weapons research. Standard turret damage is 23 per hit, while fully upgraded turrets do 29.9 damage, a very hefty boost. If you actually want them to be hurting carapaced aliens or Fades, 23 damage a hit just isn't going to cut it. Even 29.9 isn't going to be slowing down a Fade or Onos, but hopefully you'll have some marines present to be helping the turrets out.

Turrets on their own are useless. Let's get that out of the way right now. Skulks and Lerks can just zip past them, Fades and Onos don't care about them, and even Gorges can take enough shots to have a good chance at surviving a trip through a turreted room. Turrets should never be viewed as the means to secure an area. Offense chambers are in the same boat, anything shy of a truly monumental WoL can just be walked around or hopped over by marines. If an area is to be truly secure, it needs intelligently placed turrets and mines, as well as marines. Three layers of defense, where each layer affords protection for the other two.

The problem comes with Fades. They love nothing more than to poke around a corner, lob some acid rockets, and duck back. Anything in easy line of sight from the nearest corner of a hallway leading to a room can be acid splashed to death. So, to my thinking, an ideal layout of structures and turrets is one that forces Fades to actually enter the room so they can be caught in the crossfire of as many turrets and marines as possible. Stand in the hallway outside the marine spawn, or a hive, and peek into the room. Anything you can see, a Fade can shoot with near-impunity. Don't build in that area. Build in corners. Lay mines next to the doors so an alien walking through will set them off without being able to see them and dodge or shoot them. Lay mines next to tempting targets like the turret factories so that hasty aliens will run right into them.

Of course, that has to be balanced out by consideration for the marines. Building an armory in a tiny niche in the wall would be great for keeping aliens away, but makes a hassle for marines wanting ammo. Same with phase gates and infantry portals. Nobody said commanding life was easy.

sceadu · January 2003

Weapon and (maybe, not sure about this part) armor upgrades go for turrets as well as players.

Keep in mind that turrets should be used with the idea of hindrance in mind, not defense. Turrets do NOT serve as a good defense, they only keep aliens from harming other, more important, items while your marines come in and wipe them. I sometimes use the triangle method, but I try to place turrets according to the situation because one size definitely does not fit all.

When I'm trying to keep aliens out of a certain position, and often times when trying to simply guard it, I try to position turrets to where 2 turrets hit the alien the first time he gets a peek at them. Also, try to have turrets serve more than one purpose, have them in position to guard 2 structures and have <i>both</i> hit the alien when he first comes in contact, it makes his life that much shorter and that's less time he'll have to use when he's chomping on your items.

A good carapaced alien can get an <b>isolated</b> turret down to the red in one encounter and might even bring it down, then often times he's off to your TF, which is where the REAL damage starts to occur, so try to keep a turret from being isolated from its peers. There's definitely power in numbers, but don't be a spendthrift. It's a thin line to walk but it's not so hard to do with some planning and looking at angles and things (also, keep in mind the range of turrets and when they're effective and when they're not so effective).

Gargamel · January 2003

The best way is to put the TF in the Corner.
And <b>in the corner</b> means <b>in the corner</b> ok? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
This is the way to do it:

o CLick the TF and scroll it so most of it is in the wall (TF RED)
o Scroll slowly to the x and y axis so it is deployable (TF GREEN)
o Scroll AGAIN to the red position till you have the <b>limit of GREEN and RED</b> TF.
o Place the TF there.

I dont wanna see TFs in the corner with spaces between wall and TF anymore!

slaps · January 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Very good points brought up here especially Kitsune!

Hmm good idea too gargamel <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'>

Zuron · January 2003

some corners suck, there might be some obstacles in mid air blocking the tf...
i usually do like this, ill try to draw...
[/CODE]
_____
|hive |
| -----------| |--------------
| - turret [ ] (vent)
| TF |
| phase |
| |
| turret turret turret turret |
| |
| |
| v |
| corridor v |
| v |

Zuron · January 2003

how to delete?

Zuron · January 2003

some corners suck, there might be some obstacles in mid air blocking the tf...
i usually do like this, ill try to draw...
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
_____
|hive |
| -----------| |--------------
| - turret [ ] (vent)
| TF |
| phase |
| |
| turret turret turret turret    |
|    |
| |
| v   |
| corridor v |
| v |

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

MaTT · February 2003

I dont know if this has been mentioned before but i find the most effective place for turrets at resource nodes is actually on top of the resource node itself!!! Its possible to build the TF quite close to the centre of the node and doing this elevates the TF of the ground and makes it almost impossible for a skulk to get into a comfortable place to chomp away at it!. Then I usually place 3-4 turrets around the resource node and another one directly on top of the TF to create a marine tower of turrets (TOT)! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> Doing this protects both the res node and the TF with minimal placement of turrets!!!

Onuma · February 2003

I prefer the triangle method of defense...that is if I use turrets at all.

I'm not a fan of turrets, I'd rather have good marines doing the shooting, but of course there are times when you don't have men or just need more firepower and security -- ala Reactor Room on ns_tanith, or the Holo Room on ns_hera.

The same basically goes for alien Offense Chambers - though their usage is slightly different, especially if you've got web and a doorway :-)

Geronimo · February 2003

Turrets are not worthless, they stand long enough to keep the enemy from destroying the outpost or base and let marines come and clean it up

But honestly, the suck at doing anything else than waste time for the aliens...

Whats The Best Turret Configuration?

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