Has Anyone Seen This?

Mad_Hatter1 · January 2003

<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2907730,00.html' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previ...2907730,00.html</a>

This is a link to gamespot.coms preview of a game called savage which for lack of a better description, is a clone of NS. Now i havent posted here in awhile but some of the stuff in the article angered me because gamespot choose to ignore NS. Thats fine, but however playing savage off as "Savage's unusual hybrid gameplay is clearly very ambitious". They totally decided to ignore NS, my friend argued this with the "gamespot does not cover mods" arguement. Btw, im sorry if someone has already posted this. I just thought i would bring it to your attentions if you were not aware of it yet.

AcKz · January 2003

uhh.. did you see the commander interface? its the same as ns... wtf?

airyK · January 2003

crazy looking game but it maybe fun......time will only tell

Liku · January 2003

The game looks like ALOT of fun, but I don't think any computer can handle it.

heathenSlayer · January 2003

Please don't complain. NS is a clone of Starcraft in looks, abilities, and units. The First Person strategy style of NS is very similar to Art of War for Quake 3 which was released a year ago.

Skulk = zergling
Lerk = mutalisk
Gorge = drone
Onos = ultralisk

umbra = dark swarm (defiler in SC)
parasite = parasite (queen in SC)
hive mind = starcraft/starship troopers
webbing = webbing (queen in SC)
xenocide = xenocide (infested terran in SC)
acid rockets = acid spines (hydralisk in SC)

To sum it up, games are influenced, and borrow from, other games.

OG17 · January 2003

If anything, interface looks like it was stolen off Blizzard. And NS wasn't even the first to mix a commander mode into a FPS (though it's probably done so best).

The tone of the article is a little disrespectful in the sense that it's going out of its way to pretend that NS doesn't exist, but I have no problems with the game itself. As it's slated for mid-year, chances are good that they came up with the concept some time ago. Basic similarities could easily be coincidence - and probably are.

Liku · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Jan 28 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Please don't complain. NS is a clone of Starcraft in looks, abilities, and units. The First Person strategy style of NS is very similar to Art of War for Quake 3 which was released a year ago.

Skulk = zergling
Lerk = mutalisk
Gorge = drone
Onos = ultralisk

umbra = dark swarm (defiler in SC)
parasite = parasite (queen in SC)
hive mind = starcraft/starship troopers
webbing = webbing (queen in SC)
xenocide = xenocide (infested terran in SC)
acid rockets = acid spines (hydralisk in SC)

To sum it up, games are influenced, and borrow from, other games.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And what's your point? We're just saying MODs don't get any recognition.

Sirus · January 2003

First, people have been making some noise about that for a while and second the command interface is your basic RTS, They all look like that to some degree.

fool · January 2003

you forgot total annihilation

Commander - Commander in Total Annihilation
Siege Turret - Intimidator, Big Bertha, Annihilator. Any of those fit the description.
Sentry Turret - Gaat Gun, Sentinel.

The NS Resource Model fits the Unique Resource Model Of Total Annihilation, or even better Total Annihilation Kingdoms.

Rabid_Llama · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-fool- @ Jan 29 2003, 04:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you forgot total annihilation

Commander - Commander in Total Annihilation
Siege Turret - Intimidator, Big Bertha, Annihilator. Any of those fit the description.
Sentry Turret - Gaat Gun, Sentinel.

The NS Resource Model fits the Unique Resource Model Of Total Annihilation, or even better Total Annihilation Kingdoms.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Nah, TA is totally different. The Commander in NS is NOT a gigantic, deathgun wielding robot, the Siege Turrets are not gigantic artillery pieces that fire all the way across a map for defensive purposies, and the sentry turrets... well, they're in every game pretty much ever, so saying it's from TA isn't that accurate.
The resource model is very similar, though. Heck, TA Geothermal vents are just about identical to NS Resource Nodes, come to think of it. Gotta love never-ending resources <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

fool · January 2003

ya its great. now all we need is a fusion plant and a bussaw.

Ollj · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Flayra - Last updated, January 21, 2001 6:58 PM -
...Influences include Starcraft ™, Aliens ™, Advanced Space Crusade ™ and Gloom ™</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

<a href='http://web.archive.org/web/20030128210404/http://www.overmind.org/strathl/Humans%20vs.%20Aliens.htm' target='_blank'>http://web.archive.org/web/20030128210404/...s.%20Aliens.htm</a>

fool · January 2003

i still think there is some resmemblance of TA in this mod.

Zel · January 2003

if its any input at all, i describe the game to my friends as a hybrid of Starcraft and Counterstrike, a mix it pulls off incredibly well!

Liku · January 2003

Whatever, as long as I don't have to buy NS is better than anything else like it! Besides, who wants a Complicated NS-type game?

Eater1 · January 2003

The reason mods don't get a lot of recognition on sites like Gamespot is because, unless a mod goes commercial and makes it big (and the only mod, in history, that has done that is Counter-Strike), there is almost no money in it. And Gamespot does like the money.

Eater.

Onuma · January 2003

Damn...this game needs to get murdered.

NS > all

Oh and if Gamespot "does not cover mods" then why has CounterStrike been covered? Only because it went retail maybe? Nonetheless.

Trane · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jan 29 2003, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Besides, who wants a Complicated NS-type game?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
lol, yeah your right... cause NS is sooooooooo simple. ; )

Liku · January 2003

Yeah, it is.

fool · January 2003

my first day i had no fricken idea what was going on.

especially because the first game i joined i was instantly killed by an onos.

Mad_Hatter1 · January 2003

Actually when my friend argued that gamespot doesnt cover mods, or at least the ones that dont get released to make money. I countered with the idea that it is wrong of gamespot to claim the game ambitous because it is 5% different from that of NS. As for NS being a clone of starcraft, well all good games have their roots. Its called movements, but the difference between NS and starcraft is that they are two totally different genres. NS was the first game, or mod, that effectively took the 2 and combined them into something really nice. I was upset that gamespot was so willing to ignore the orignal and call the copy a ambitous movement.

P.S. : Serious Sam was also a mod. So counterstrike isnt alone in that department.

Alpha_1 · January 2003

Actually Serious Sam was made by the same people that designed the engine that ran it. Croteam is the originator of Serious Sam and the engine it was built on.

Orcrist · January 2003

And there's Gunman Chronicles as a mod that went retail AFAIK...

PseudoKnight · January 2003

There's already 3 or more threads on this game.

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=16988&hl=savage' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...16988&hl=savage</a>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4111&hl=savage' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=4111&hl=savage</a>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=5216&hl=savage' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=5216&hl=savage</a>

And they did NOT steal this from NS. I thought of this game concept well before NS was conceptualized. It's just a good idea... and the technology is right for it now.

Kadan · January 2003

lol, what do you guys expect.

Flayra is a programmer, sure hes very good at it.

But when it comes down to balancing (and everything non-coding) hes about as useless as they come.

His beta testing enviroment are his 'mates', which is why theres so many obvious balance flaws. if you've ever taken warcraft 3, about 500* more complex, it's impressively balanced only because they're listened to the best of the best during beta, and none of flayra's friends are incredibly impressive at NS anymore to be completely truthful.

I did hear flayra is now listening to clans for 1.1, which should make the patch increases NS community size somewhat. (well lets hope)

J2pc · January 2003

I think it's more a C&C Renagade kinda game, but now WITH a commander.

'Grunts' can buy their own equipment/characters (Renagade?)
'Comms' can build & research and order (Any RTS)
'Comms' need to harvest stone and gold (Warcraft?)'
'Comms' need to order grunts
You got man vs beasts (no need to comment)
Lot's of ppl playing (that's nice)

ok, u got comm vote and all, but I really don't see the point in yelling about that it's stolen and all.

I admit it's unfair to ignore NS, but to say all is stolen is kinda wrong, the concept is totally different.
You'll probarbly have the same tech as human and beast, totally different than the alien/marine part of NS.
I think NS is way more original. You ppl don't really think that those developers saw NS, and thought, what the heck, let's build a game like that. Get real, u know how much time something like that would take?

Now hush all, it's commonly known that good things get copied a million times, so why yell about it, it's no use.

PseudoKnight · January 2003

Kadan, I would say that NS is more complex to balance since you have huge variables to deal with: Human units. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> But I understand what you're saying.

Kadan · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jan 29 2003, 03:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Kadan, I would say that NS is more complex to balance since you have huge variables to deal with: Human units. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> But I understand what you're saying. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Give me 2 weeks, about 40 top/average class players, a few hours of flayra's coding time every day, and i'll have this game balanced well enough people will be going woah at most games in NS. Where teamwork is the key aspect of every game, not unfair balance. A game which has to push everyone to there skill limit to overcome the enemy instead of having a huge advantage from the word go.

It doesn't matter how many hives the aliens have (well to a point it shouldn't), and throughout the game, it has to be extremely close-faught more over resource nodes than the aliens hive. Since when it comes to resource nodes it allows plently of 'small' wars that doesn't neccesarily have an outcome of 'win'.

But that will never happen because Flayra remains constant on his newbie-playtest team, and frankly I don't care. It's his mod, he's put his lifesavings into it, let him do to it as he pleases.

PseudoKnight · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Give me 2 weeks, about 40 top/average class players, a few hours of flayra's coding time every day, and i'll have this game balanced well enough people will be going woah at most games in NS. Where teamwork is the key aspect of every game, not unfair balance. A game which has to push everyone to there skill limit to overcome the enemy instead of having a huge advantage from the word go.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>This was my point. The problem with your testing would be that you're not counting the less-than-average players. You can balance a game for clan matches, but pubs is another story. You never know what balance of good/bad players you're going to get. (and I'm not talking lop-sided teams)

Greedo · January 2003

Okay, I don't really care how this topic devolved from a Savage related topic (which has been brought up numerous times in the past) to a Flayra/playtester bashing topic. I don't terribly care for personal insults.

<img src='http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~mrolek/nsnuke.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Has Anyone Seen This?

Comments