Reality In Ns
heathenSlayer
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6088Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6088Members
<div class="IPBDescription">*giggle*</div> You are the marines: You have the technology to instantly teleport, fly with the aid of jetpacks, drop buildings from the sky, use automated sentry turrets, and build guns that can shoot through walls with invisible bullets. So why are you fighting your enemy with 20th century weapons? Why not laser guns, rockets, or just plain blowing up the planet, aliens and all? (Reminds me of Starship Troopers, where they have gigantic intergalactic space travel ships and a giant man made ring orbiting the Earth, but they choose to fight aliens with machine guns instead of nuking the punks.)
I accidentally clicked on the Suggestions and Ideas forums and noticed that people seem to strike down ideas no matter how good, because they aren't "realistic." (I guess this goes for bhop too <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> but I won't get into that.) Can anything in NS be considered real? I just thought that realism argument was kind of annoying, and irrelevant to a video game.
I accidentally clicked on the Suggestions and Ideas forums and noticed that people seem to strike down ideas no matter how good, because they aren't "realistic." (I guess this goes for bhop too <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> but I won't get into that.) Can anything in NS be considered real? I just thought that realism argument was kind of annoying, and irrelevant to a video game.
Comments
BTW, the 20th Century would be 1900-1999. I don't think were using M1 Garands in NS. Your thinking 21st Century.
Ballistic weapons are cheap and pretty devastating. I'm sure there's the tech in the world of NS for really powerful weapons, but the TSA isn't supposed to represent an all powerful, rich, enlightened civilization. They have limited resources. So they use the most efficient effectiveness/cost equipment that they can.
Also, you have no idea how NS weapons translate when compared to today's weapons. Maybe the bullets all have small explosives. There's no kickback, but maybe each shot with a machine gun is like a magnum shot. Who knows?
NS would turn into the Half-Life Gas Pumping Simulator <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lasers: getting the energy output on a laser weapon up to the point where it can do any kind of serious damage, against a rapidly moving (meaning it has to do it quickly) target, which is attacking you (meaning it has to do it VERY quickly), and yet also has a high recycle rate (so you could drop more than one skulk every few minutes with it) and doesn't produce an enormous amount of heat or require you to drag around a large amount of weight in batteries is difficult, compared to the amount of damage you can do with "conventional" (combustion of explosives to drive metal slugs at a high velocity) ammunition. Considering that NS provides a lot of it's equipment on the "assembled by nanotechnology" theory, I'm also willing to believe that assembling something fairly simple (such as a pump-action shotgun) is a significantly easier task than manufacturing the kind of high-energy circuitry you need for a viable laser weapon.
Nukes: asides from the fact that you're planning on being able to walk into that area after you launch a nuke into it, there's also the problem of critical mass. This issue is twofold... the first part being that I highly doubt a research facility's nano-resource pile has an abundancy of enriched uranium floating around in it, and the second part being that getting any sort of "small" nuclear weapon up to critical mass once you get below one kiloton (which is enough to completely destroy a facility the size of hera) is exceptionally difficult with modern technology... i don't see a few hundred years worth of development of high-energy exciter explosives making this any easier, especially when you have to have it constructed in the field by nanites. Besides... why would you want to fight over the facility in an attempt to *reclaim* it if you're going to be setting off *nukes* inside of it, rendering it half-destroyed and totally radioactive for the next several years? Most likely, the TSA *does* nuke facilities... you just never get to play NS in any of these, because NS only focuses on the facilities that are NOT nuked flat. ^_^
Who says realism doesn't apply? NS is immersive... the reason it's immersive is that it's realistic ENOUGH for me to suspend my disbelief at certain things (teleportation, the ability to respawn when dead, the fact that an onos can tip-toe across a narrow railing to rush me) in order to enjoy the game. The realism arguement usually gets broken out when people find a feature that would ruin their ability to suspend disbelief... an integral part of NS.
And then there's the whole gameplay angle, too... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
That's why we have siege cannons.
Look at it this way: do *you* honestly want to get stuck with a "non-lethal" weapon when you're facing off with a fade?
laser? assuming you get the energy and all of that into a rifle sized object, whats to make a laser that can cut thoguh flesh stop at the wall behind it? either it will "warm up" a fade or it will cut through the walls causing holes in the hull of the spacestation.
wait a minute, we have guns making bulletholes in the spacestation too. hm...
a sound weapon would reflect and deafen everyone in adjacent hallways. maybe even cause the marine who fired it to bleed from his ears. in any event it requires special headgear that we can assume the marines have....
now how does a skulk (which i relate to a hairless german shepard) take mroe than one bullet? i think one near the head or spine would down him for good.
oh, assuming i survive one bullet, how is it i can run and leap full speed at 1 hp?
nevermind realism is to be forgotten in games.
realism refers to how close the game is to a common sense of scifi, or a common sense of fantasy. realism in this game means that i want a bullet to do lots of damage to skulks and i want flamethrowers...... nevermind <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
have ever a mariner tried to stop and talk to a fade?
you know, they may be aliens, but **** dude they've got feelings too
last nite on ns_hera a onos was talking about his wife and kids who where just dropped from holoroom thanks to a siege ... oh well that's sad.
BTW, the 20th Century would be 1900-1999. I don't think were using M1 Garands in NS. Your thinking 21st Century. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually its 1900-2000, 2001 was when the 21st century started, not 2000 <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Eater.
have ever a mariner tried to stop and talk to a fade?
you know, they may be aliens, but **** dude they've got feelings too
last nite on ns_hera a onos was talking about his wife and kids who where just dropped from holoroom thanks to a siege ... oh well that's sad. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol lol lol <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Realistically.... the entrance of a ballistic at high velocity into tissue is a violent thing and does damage you wouldnt believe not only with the impact and shock of the hit... but also it can stay inside the victim...
Another thing... ok....... umm nukes... you wouldnt be able to reclaim whatever you just had nuked for fear of radiation... and who is to say the kharaa are affected by radiation if they can stand deep space.
1901-2000 rather.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=739' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ct=ST&f=5&t=739</a>
Read it before posting stuff like this.
Exactly... 'Tis only a game ppl!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
End of the day, if everyone was using laser weapons, with no real 'machine' feel to it the game will lose alot of the atmosphere it has.
HEY! I was joking here but that actually sounds cool <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If we'd met the khara back then we'd have barely been able to tickle them even without carapice.
BlueGhost
Examples include : Nazi Germany rejecting nuclear research on the grounds that the scientists were Jewish (in their opinion, I'm not sure if they were or not) and the Shoguns of medieval Japan rejecting gunpowder because it would decrease the power of the samurai class, and the British army of present day using the SA80, widely regarded to be a not exactly 'great' assault rifle, yet it has not been replaced.
So, maybe there are better weapons / armour available, but the TSA aren't using them for other reasons.
Put simply, Projectile weapons are more effective then lasers are.
In regards to nukes, think about this. You find a family cockroaches in your living room busily multiplying (they do have to learn you know) do you nuke them out of existence? No, you get an exterminator, and he cleans up the mess. Of course, the exterminator would be rather surprised if the cockroaches started squeeling "The Hive Is Dying!". Also, Uranium 235 (the element, not the regular) is a rare element, it has a half life (the time it takes for a radioactive element to lose half of it's mass) of 400,000 years. Uranium 238 on the other hand has a half life of 4.5 Billion years. The people of the future would either use anti matter, fusion, vacuum energy, quantum energy or something altogether exotic that we dont know about. Either way, they wouldnt use crude fission any more, but something else. And they would only nuke the station if it was unsalvagable and had the possibility of infecting planets/stations so the point is moot...
I have clearly demonstrated my tendancy to ramle, my work here is done...
/whooshes out of topic
Realistically.... the entrance of a ballistic at high velocity into tissue is a violent thing and does damage you wouldnt believe not only with the impact and shock of the hit... but also it can stay inside the victim... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, laser would most likely cause the liquid inside the wound to vaporize and since the heat has sealed it, we can talk about messy
It's been a while since I was forced to study this but here goes
Bullet fired from assault rifle moves so fast that it is considered High Energy Transfer bullet
Meaning that even normal FMJ bullet upon hitting the flesh will cause a "shockwave" in the muscle
This combined with burrowing bullet tears the muscle apart, causing the wound to be cone-shaped and shattering any bones it might encounter
Not just making a bullet shaped hole in them but the cracks can extend throught the whole bone
Also, since the wound is created so fast and becomes so big, the air pressure in the wound is lower than that of outside air and thus sucks surrounding air into wound
Since this also probably sucks in dirt and bacteria from surrounds, it will help the infection spread
Also, take a note of how much easier it is to fix an assault rifle than a laser gun on the field
I can take apart and put together a finnish assault rifle with my eyes closed incase I need to fix a jamming
I bet you can't do that on field with laser
And if you design a weapon with plan that it will never jam/malfunction, you are either genious or batshit insane
Most likely latter
See? I'm everywhere! Decepticons pwn j00! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
He's right on the principle. Weapons are only put into practise if they are either more effective or less costly by far than the current alterantive. Lasers aren't as practical as projectiles, hence they don't get replaced.
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Try reading Starship Troopers, instead of just watching the awful movie that was based on the great book. They actually explain why they don't just nuke the planets. Also, they don't use machine guns in the book, but instead have quite a bit of firepower on hand. Imagine HA's with jetpacks armed with multiple grenade launchers, flamethrowers, and mini-nukes. Excellent book, horrible movie.