-Muzzle flash issues at short range: well, consider this (not quite from the realism standpoint, but I think that's what it's supposed to simulate): You're a marine. After being fed half a clip of the trusy lmg, the skulk closes to within centimeters of you. You *know* you are about to be torn in half. Now, do you panic, spray and pray or brace yourself finish the skulk off in a couple of short, precise bursts? The former would be the case for a green, unexperienced marine, but a battle-hardened veteran would probably keep his cool and do the latter (Keep in mind I am reffering to actual marines, not players). I think that having to use bursts at short range is supposed to simulate exactly that; however praying and spraying, blinded by the muzzle flash (not that I think it is that distracting) can work if you have backup. -Skulk jaw animation: similar story. A skulk's attack is clearly supposed to be fast and chaotic (just read the manual's entry on skulks), a skulk should not pay attention to its surroundings when it is chewing someone in half; this is perfectly accomplished by an animation that forces the player to go into this sort of a blind frenzy when attacking a group of rines, oftentimes missing their movements.
If the devs don't care then what's this locking of r_drawviewmodel to 1 I keep hearing about? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> leave it to the dev to decide. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means, we should stop arguing and let the Developers deside what to do
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They already have, but no one cares <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me break this down for you;
They (the developers) already have (desided what to do about the mussle flash), but no one (the public, IE; you) cares.
Because, if anyone did care - there wouldn't be a topic based on this subject, that has already been 'discussed' to death.
Hmm, 1024 res makes muzzle flash much smaller compared to 640... and they're locking viewmodel... this along with the fps effects is forcing me to get a better computer just for NS! Not to mention the good old reasons of having better fps and resolution for your ability to see what's going on... damn u!
The models on screen *are* a balance issue, intended or not - the simple fact is that I will be 13/7 as a skulk with r_draw 0 and 26/4 at the same time with it set to 1 on an average public server.
Now, there are arguments that say that this issue (muzzle flash is similar in effect) was intended to reduce an individual's skill.
This argument actually holds some water.
But I am forced to ask, surely it is better to let players' skill be capped by <i>their oppoents</i> skill!? Why include a forced arbitrary like the constant junk on screen in order to balance the game? Why not tinker with the weapons and such until someone with perfect vision and flawless aim is a match for someone else in the same circumstance?
Anything seems to me like a fairly severe cop out from the mod makers.
Come on Flayra, you can obviously do better than that. NS smacks of subtletly and design quality from every angle.
Such a sloppy way of controlling one's ability to suceed in the game is intrusive and just feels out of place in a game where one feels like everything else is viscerally striving for elegance.
If you want people to play with skulk teeth and biting blinding you when you fire, fine, but the fact that I cannot see what is going on whenever I enter combat at the top right or bottom left of my screen because of the hive status and other HUD info is not something that enhances the game experience.
I struggled with myself on this issue for a while, but the sheer lameness of a marine being able to jump once and totally disorient a skulk at point blank range so he can smear him into the carpet went against the themes of the game as I understand them reading your comments, plans, and manual.
So right now, I play with r_drawviewmodel bound to a toggle, and flick it on and off constantly as I use hivesight or approach close combat. And it means that when I get up to the close quarters of a marine, or 3, then I can cause them harm; even the best, perfect aimers who you will never run down at a distance in an open area. My teamates are left unable even frag someone like Black_Bart (who is now on these forums), now he can blow me away at range, but I can actually eat him if I get to his feet.
Maybe if he turned his muzzelflash off this would change back, but I do not think so.
In the end, I think it should be left to the players discretion whether to play with models on or off. If the game depends for balance on something as simplistic and annoying as having artifacts on the screen (incidentally I do not see the khaara evolving something which is going to inhibit their vision to a degree that makes slow moving bipeds their equal in close quarter engagement), then something is not right.
If the game is balanced to a degree where it really does not matter much whether you have them on or off (HLDM. A lot of top players turn off models, but the advantage it yields is insignificant, and is more a matter of customisation than balance), then you won't have to add more restrictions on how people choose to set up their config - but you will have a better game, as the things that *should* be taking the weight of balance - costing, damage, speed, physics and everything else - will be tweaked to where they should be for combat perfection, and so game strategy will have a set of constants on which to work. The fact that someone is attacked from the left rather than the right should not, from a commander's, strategic viewpoint, have *any* bearing on whether they are doomed before the first shot is fired.
It should rely on the teamwork and strategy that put the player in that situation, and the player's skill.
Arbitraries and artificial handicaps are the sign of a poorly designed game, and necessarily detract from the above. They indicate that the game's underlying concepts or execution were either shoddy or unsuccessful.
NS is neither.
So fix the models - or balance the game so that each person can decide whether to use them or not.
how do people NOT NOTICE THIS? The very first time i fired up NS and fired that marine gun i INSTANTLY was like "pffft, ok thats hella gotta go" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hey sobedragon... no offense but when u shoot ur LMG... do u jus stand there and not move??? dun think so rite? how hard is it to strafe just a bit so that ur vision clear and track the target..... i ahvent really noticed it..... but yeah .. thats all i have to say..
Say what you want about muzzle flash, but after a week of playing.. I promptly decided to find the muzzle flash sprites and replace them with blank ones - so I get no flash whatsoever. The game is decidedly more pleasing to the eye, and I don't really seem to have any advantage to tell you the truth. It just makes it less painful on my eyes.
I used to play with a button that toggled r_drawviewmodel 1 off and on. But then the whole scripting discussion came on, and everyone started yelling it was cheating. Now I don't use it anymore, and I gotta say things are harder as marine AND as skulk, but i think thats nothing a little experience can nerf......
anyone, who attually finds this a problem is a moron.
hey, scicne were going to remove balancing things, i suggest the following
marines start with 1000 rez and everyone with HA all aliens have 100 res strating hives can be built from acrost the map skuls have as much hp as an onos, and do 500+ per bite
Ego, I don't think the muzzle flash is a big problem, it doesn't bother me, I guess theres a case for reducing it a bit but i'm not fussed either way. I too wish this thread would die.
However, calling people morons is just unjustified. Leave out, m'kay ? Damn I wish I was a forum mod <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i hate it when forum trolls tell us that something has been discussed to death and should therefore be locked. repeating a conversation hurts no one, it in fact lets fresh ideas be shared, fresh viewpoints and more logical discussion, so please drop this "im better because ive been here longer bullcrap" and stop calling everyone with vision problems newbies.
now before this thread is deleted due to flames, i need to say something constructive, eh.
as you can see on the screenshow with the arrows a few posts above mine, even though the muzzle flash is not huge, it does add the very important CENTER OF THE SCREEN to the blocked area by the weapon model.
here, i made you an illustration:
the red lines show the normal cone of view for a marine, the green are his effective view while firing straight ahead, the blue is the floor, and the skulk is about to destroy him. actually i think the skulk is drawn a little too large, but you can see that although muzzle flash is not overly large, it blocks a very neccessary lower portion.
if i can get someoenw ith any authority on the matter to tell me it is an intended balance issue, iw ill gladly edit my sprites to be black. that way they will block the intended view section without blinding the hell out of me. this is a whole secondary bit, many NS maps are dark, (it is great ambience and fear factor) the epileptic white blobs are quite disorienting. (oh why did i bother writing this, someones gonna flame me, call me a **** for not seeing well, but i contend that if i have this problem at least a small percentage of the NS community has the same feelings, im not a total freak!)
Silverfox, while I agree entirely that all changes are up to the devs, and it is foolish to attempt to persuade them to change their opinions, HOWEVER, a civil discussion (i.e. one without flames and such) on the topic is perfectly valid in my opinion. I believe that is the sole purpose of this board; suggestions about gameplay and bugs have their respective areas. I honestly see nothing wrong with repeatedly debating a topic.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Feb 5 2003, 01:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Feb 5 2003, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i hate it when forum trolls tell us that something has been discussed to death and should therefore be locked. repeating a conversation hurts no one, it in fact lets fresh ideas be shared, fresh viewpoints and more logical discussion, so please drop this "im better because ive been here longer bullcrap" and stop calling everyone with vision problems newbies.
now before this thread is deleted due to flames, i need to say something constructive, eh.
as you can see on the screenshow with the arrows a few posts above mine, even though the muzzle flash is not huge, it does add the very important CENTER OF THE SCREEN to the blocked area by the weapon model.
here, i made you an illustration:
the red lines show the normal cone of view for a marine, the green are his effective view while firing straight ahead, the blue is the floor, and the skulk is about to destroy him. actually i think the skulk is drawn a little too large, but you can see that although muzzle flash is not overly large, it blocks a very neccessary lower portion.
if i can get someoenw ith any authority on the matter to tell me it is an intended balance issue, iw ill gladly edit my sprites to be black. that way they will block the intended view section without blinding the hell out of me. this is a whole secondary bit, many NS maps are dark, (it is great ambience and fear factor) the epileptic white blobs are quite disorienting. (oh why did i bother writing this, someones gonna flame me, call me a **** for not seeing well, but i contend that if i have this problem at least a small percentage of the NS community has the same feelings, im not a total freak!) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would seem that you are saying that the marine is forever barred from viewing that part of the screen and your diagram suggests that a skulk can sneak up to a marine without alerting him by staying in the "cone of invisibility". That is simply not true; while the flash disrupts tracking and the ability to spray somewhat, it is unlikely to prevent you from spotting a skulk you would see otherwise.
<!--QuoteBegin--parkan+Feb 5 2003, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (parkan @ Feb 5 2003, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It would seem that you are saying that the marine is forever barred from viewing that part of the screen and your diagram suggests that a skulk can sneak up to a marine without alerting him by staying in the "cone of invisibility". That is simply not true; while the flash disrupts tracking and the ability to spray somewhat, it is unlikely to prevent you from spotting a skulk you would see otherwise. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i apologize for being vague. much of the ground is visible, had i a 3d diagram instead of a 2d one, to the soldier's left is more visible ground than to the right, and it is not a completely blocked area, but a much-harder-to-see-in one.
Well, if anything, this thread shows who has integrity and who doesn't.
I'll keep my eyes open for DaemonLaud and chowder. The muzzle flash is there for a reason. It's not for you to decide how big or small it is, or if it's seen or not.
Does anyone know how to bind r_drawviewmodel to every time u shoot??? Would be most helpful!!!!! That way u can c your gun, but when u shoot it goes away. i have seen this.
O and 1 thing i noticed with R-drawviewmodel is that when it is off u cant c your buildings health for some reason?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? not good.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--T_RAT+Feb 6 2003, 09:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (T_RAT @ Feb 6 2003, 09:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does anyone know how to bind r_drawviewmodel to every time u shoot??? Would be most helpful!!!!! That way u can c your gun, but when u shoot it goes away. i have seen this.
O and 1 thing i noticed with R-drawviewmodel is that when it is off u cant c your buildings health for some reason?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? not good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Never mind that this is considered an exploit, and most of the servers I play on have implemented code that disallows scripting like this.
Don't get used to it - r_drawviewmodel will be "dealt with" in 1.1.
Just as a note---FPS can greatly impact how your muzzle flash appears. I wondered about this and did some testing with fps_max... At above 45 FPS, you get flickers of transparency when your LMG is going off. Below 40 fps and it tends to be a solid blob. Just a little comment.
Unrelated fact: It seems that at 26 fps and below the jetpack will not hold you up against a ceiling. At 27 fps and above, it will.
Any competition in real-life involves inconveniences that can't be changed. Increasing your overall skills towards dealing with conflict lies in improving the way in which you personally handle these inconveniences. Continually avoiding inconvenience, i.e., changing the rules of the game to smooth out the rough parts, is not a behavior I would associate with people who are truly effective under pressure, over the long haul.
All weapons in real-life have their own limitations and inconveniences. Any soldier in any military has to learn to deal with these. Some weapons DO have huge muzzle flashes, which not only obscure your line of fire, but give away your position. Some weapons are really heavy. Some of them practically take your shoulder off when you shoot them. Some weapons are really sensitive to dirt or overheating, or tend to jam, even in the middle of a firefight.
Even the human body has limitations. Heartrate greatly affects your ability to aim a firearm. The amount of weight you are carrying (think about the 250-300 rounds of ammo) really affects your heartrate, agility, and jumping ability when running around.
A chess player gets better at chess by attempting to do better at the situation at hand, not by changing the situation. I don't know of any world-renowned chess players that achieved fame by deciding they could pwn more effectively if their knights could move like queens. Yet that's the same kind of attitude I see when people go to great lengths to change the default state of the game, by turning models off, raising their gamma to ridiculous levels, or any other practice which obviously wasn't intended to be available to a normal player who simply sat down at the computer and decided to play. Not only do I think they miss out on some of the artistic ambience, but I question whether they are gaining as much overall competition skill that would translate to other parts of life.
If you really want to reduce the size of the flash that bad, you should have to pay for it. I suggest something like a "flash suppressor" upgrade researched at the arms lab. This would imho be a very simple solution to this problem. And, about the skulk bites, I think the animation could be sped up a just little. I don't have any problems biting with the lerk because compared to the skulk the animation is fast.
I think the real problem here is that someone's a little too proud of their "muzzle flash artwork" and doesn't want to see it removed, even though it negatively affects the gameplay of every NS player. Professional game designers tend to listen to their audience's feedback a little more than this, at least if they wanted their game to be popular and played by many. My first impression of the game was that the muzzle flash has to go. It's annoying as hell, and totally detracts from my gaming experience. Obviously I am not alone here. I'm not saying the developers need to react to every criticism and change their game accordingly. But things like this, that totally hurt the experience, really need to be looked at if they hope for their game to be well received by the gaming public.
Some of you say that it should stay, that life has inconveniences like this that we need to learn to deal with, and that the muzzle flash increases realism in the game. When the enjoyment of a game is hurt by "realism", that's exactly when realism needs to be discarded. There are already enough annoyances regarding the marines weapons: they have a long reload time, and a limited supply of ammunition. For those of you who think that it doesn't hurt your experience, I urge you to try the script that removes the gun and flash from view for a awhile (before they remove this capability altogether). Then go back to it; I'm sure you'll see what I mean.
<!--QuoteBegin--Terr+Feb 7 2003, 03:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Terr @ Feb 7 2003, 03:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just as a note---FPS can greatly impact how your muzzle flash appears. I wondered about this and did some testing with fps_max... At above 45 FPS, you get flickers of transparency when your LMG is going off. Below 40 fps and it tends to be a solid blob. Just a little comment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wow. someone put real research data into this thread, thank you.
this explains why some people complain of having a huge problem with the opaque blob, and others with top of the line machines tell them they are straight up wrong. i'm on the edge, 50 fps running around and 19 fps in a firefight,
when is the muzzle flash is most noticable? when fighting of course.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the real problem here is that someone's a little too proud of their "muzzle flash artwork" and doesn't want to see it removed, even though it negatively affects the gameplay of every NS player.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me? Did I blatently miss all those posts that said there was notjing wrong with muzzle flash? Even if I did, I'm an NS player and it doesn't affect me any more than the skulk or lerk bite does. So a little bit of your screen is flickering, it's not like half your screen is blanked out or anything. Deal with it, this isn't a matter of some developer's "prized artwork" it's gameplay. A skulk's bite takes up just about the whole screen and some people whinge to death about this, never considering that you're dealing with a very powerful meele attack. The marines can attack from range, and their disadvantage is that a very small portion of their screen is flickering when they fire. The two more than cancel each other out. I've never been killed by not seeing an oncoming skulks because of muzzle flare. I do not notice it is there. Until I read this thread I didn't know NS HAS muzzle flare. But the fact is that it is there, so adjust yourselves accordingly if you see a problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--TheWumpus+Feb 7 2003, 02:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheWumpus @ Feb 7 2003, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the real problem here is that someone's a little too proud of their "muzzle flash artwork" and doesn't want to see it removed, even though it negatively affects the gameplay of every NS player. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't...make...assumptions about the developers. Especially ones as unsubstantiated and ridiculous as that.
We've heard all the arguments for and against the muzzleflash and skulk bite. If any changes are made they've already been decided upon by Flayra and wouldn't happen until version 1.1
There really is no need to debate this topic any further, since pretty much every valid point regarding it has already been discussed.
Comments
-Muzzle flash issues at short range: well, consider this (not quite from the realism standpoint, but I think that's what it's supposed to simulate):
You're a marine. After being fed half a clip of the trusy lmg, the skulk closes to within centimeters of you. You *know* you are about to be torn in half. Now, do you panic, spray and pray or brace yourself finish the skulk off in a couple of short, precise bursts? The former would be the case for a green, unexperienced marine, but a battle-hardened veteran would probably keep his cool and do the latter (Keep in mind I am reffering to actual marines, not players). I think that having to use bursts at short range is supposed to simulate exactly that; however praying and spraying, blinded by the muzzle flash (not that I think it is that distracting) can work if you have backup.
-Skulk jaw animation: similar story. A skulk's attack is clearly supposed to be fast and chaotic (just read the manual's entry on skulks), a skulk should not pay attention to its surroundings when it is chewing someone in half; this is perfectly accomplished by an animation that forces the player to go into this sort of a blind frenzy when attacking a group of rines, oftentimes missing their movements.
But that's just my view.
you obviously missed the point
lets review;
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
leave it to the dev to decide.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That means, we should stop arguing and let the Developers deside what to do
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
They already have, but no one cares
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me break this down for you;
They (the developers) already have (desided what to do about the mussle flash), but no one (the public, IE; you) cares.
Because, if anyone did care - there wouldn't be a topic based on this subject, that has already been 'discussed' to death.
The models on screen *are* a balance issue, intended or not - the simple fact is that I will be 13/7 as a skulk with r_draw 0 and 26/4 at the same time with it set to 1 on an average public server.
Now, there are arguments that say that this issue (muzzle flash is similar in effect) was intended to reduce an individual's skill.
This argument actually holds some water.
But I am forced to ask, surely it is better to let players' skill be capped by <i>their oppoents</i> skill!? Why include a forced arbitrary like the constant junk on screen in order to balance the game? Why not tinker with the weapons and such until someone with perfect vision and flawless aim is a match for someone else in the same circumstance?
Anything seems to me like a fairly severe cop out from the mod makers.
Come on Flayra, you can obviously do better than that. NS smacks of subtletly and design quality from every angle.
Such a sloppy way of controlling one's ability to suceed in the game is intrusive and just feels out of place in a game where one feels like everything else is viscerally striving for elegance.
If you want people to play with skulk teeth and biting blinding you when you fire, fine, but the fact that I cannot see what is going on whenever I enter combat at the top right or bottom left of my screen because of the hive status and other HUD info is not something that enhances the game experience.
I struggled with myself on this issue for a while, but the sheer lameness of a marine being able to jump once and totally disorient a skulk at point blank range so he can smear him into the carpet went against the themes of the game as I understand them reading your comments, plans, and manual.
So right now, I play with r_drawviewmodel bound to a toggle, and flick it on and off constantly as I use hivesight or approach close combat. And it means that when I get up to the close quarters of a marine, or 3, then I can cause them harm; even the best, perfect aimers who you will never run down at a distance in an open area. My teamates are left unable even frag someone like Black_Bart (who is now on these forums), now he can blow me away at range, but I can actually eat him if I get to his feet.
Maybe if he turned his muzzelflash off this would change back, but I do not think so.
In the end, I think it should be left to the players discretion whether to play with models on or off. If the game depends for balance on something as simplistic and annoying as having artifacts on the screen (incidentally I do not see the khaara evolving something which is going to inhibit their vision to a degree that makes slow moving bipeds their equal in close quarter engagement), then something is not right.
If the game is balanced to a degree where it really does not matter much whether you have them on or off (HLDM. A lot of top players turn off models, but the advantage it yields is insignificant, and is more a matter of customisation than balance), then you won't have to add more restrictions on how people choose to set up their config - but you will have a better game, as the things that *should* be taking the weight of balance - costing, damage, speed, physics and everything else - will be tweaked to where they should be for combat perfection, and so game strategy will have a set of constants on which to work. The fact that someone is attacked from the left rather than the right should not, from a commander's, strategic viewpoint, have *any* bearing on whether they are doomed before the first shot is fired.
It should rely on the teamwork and strategy that put the player in that situation, and the player's skill.
Arbitraries and artificial handicaps are the sign of a poorly designed game, and necessarily detract from the above. They indicate that the game's underlying concepts or execution were either shoddy or unsuccessful.
NS is neither.
So fix the models - or balance the game so that each person can decide whether to use them or not.
how do people NOT NOTICE THIS? The very first time i fired up NS and fired that marine gun i INSTANTLY was like "pffft, ok thats hella gotta go" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey sobedragon... no offense but when u shoot ur LMG... do u jus stand there and not move??? dun think so rite? how hard is it to strafe just a bit so that ur vision clear and track the target..... i ahvent really noticed it..... but yeah .. thats all i have to say..
Ermin
hey, scicne were going to remove balancing things, i suggest the following
marines start with 1000 rez and everyone with HA
all aliens have 100 res strating
hives can be built from acrost the map
skuls have as much hp as an onos, and do 500+ per bite
geze,
burn this thread, its done.
Ego
edit: i cant spell, and i dont care
However, calling people morons is just unjustified. Leave out, m'kay ? Damn I wish I was a forum mod <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
now before this thread is deleted due to flames, i need to say something constructive, eh.
as you can see on the screenshow with the arrows a few posts above mine, even though the muzzle flash is not huge, it does add the very important CENTER OF THE SCREEN to the blocked area by the weapon model.
here, i made you an illustration:
the red lines show the normal cone of view for a marine, the green are his effective view while firing straight ahead, the blue is the floor, and the skulk is about to destroy him. actually i think the skulk is drawn a little too large, but you can see that although muzzle flash is not overly large, it blocks a very neccessary lower portion.
if i can get someoenw ith any authority on the matter to tell me it is an intended balance issue, iw ill gladly edit my sprites to be black. that way they will block the intended view section without blinding the hell out of me. this is a whole secondary bit, many NS maps are dark, (it is great ambience and fear factor) the epileptic white blobs are quite disorienting. (oh why did i bother writing this, someones gonna flame me, call me a **** for not seeing well, but i contend that if i have this problem at least a small percentage of the NS community has the same feelings, im not a total freak!)
now before this thread is deleted due to flames, i need to say something constructive, eh.
as you can see on the screenshow with the arrows a few posts above mine, even though the muzzle flash is not huge, it does add the very important CENTER OF THE SCREEN to the blocked area by the weapon model.
here, i made you an illustration:
the red lines show the normal cone of view for a marine, the green are his effective view while firing straight ahead, the blue is the floor, and the skulk is about to destroy him. actually i think the skulk is drawn a little too large, but you can see that although muzzle flash is not overly large, it blocks a very neccessary lower portion.
if i can get someoenw ith any authority on the matter to tell me it is an intended balance issue, iw ill gladly edit my sprites to be black. that way they will block the intended view section without blinding the hell out of me. this is a whole secondary bit, many NS maps are dark, (it is great ambience and fear factor) the epileptic white blobs are quite disorienting. (oh why did i bother writing this, someones gonna flame me, call me a **** for not seeing well, but i contend that if i have this problem at least a small percentage of the NS community has the same feelings, im not a total freak!) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would seem that you are saying that the marine is forever barred from viewing that part of the screen and your diagram suggests that a skulk can sneak up to a marine without alerting him by staying in the "cone of invisibility". That is simply not true; while the flash disrupts tracking and the ability to spray somewhat, it is unlikely to prevent you from spotting a skulk you would see otherwise.
i apologize for being vague. much of the ground is visible, had i a 3d diagram instead of a 2d one, to the soldier's left is more visible ground than to the right, and it is not a completely blocked area, but a much-harder-to-see-in one.
I'll keep my eyes open for DaemonLaud and chowder. The muzzle flash is there for a reason. It's not for you to decide how big or small it is, or if it's seen or not.
Would be most helpful!!!!!
That way u can c your gun, but when u shoot it goes away. i have seen this.
O and 1 thing i noticed with R-drawviewmodel is that when it is off u cant c your buildings health for some reason?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? not good.
Would be most helpful!!!!!
That way u can c your gun, but when u shoot it goes away. i have seen this.
O and 1 thing i noticed with R-drawviewmodel is that when it is off u cant c your buildings health for some reason?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? not good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never mind that this is considered an exploit, and most of the servers I play on have implemented code that disallows scripting like this.
Don't get used to it - r_drawviewmodel will be "dealt with" in 1.1.
Unrelated fact: It seems that at 26 fps and below the jetpack will not hold you up against a ceiling. At 27 fps and above, it will.
All weapons in real-life have their own limitations and inconveniences. Any soldier in any military has to learn to deal with these. Some weapons DO have huge muzzle flashes, which not only obscure your line of fire, but give away your position. Some weapons are really heavy. Some of them practically take your shoulder off when you shoot them. Some weapons are really sensitive to dirt or overheating, or tend to jam, even in the middle of a firefight.
Even the human body has limitations. Heartrate greatly affects your ability to aim a firearm. The amount of weight you are carrying (think about the 250-300 rounds of ammo) really affects your heartrate, agility, and jumping ability when running around.
A chess player gets better at chess by attempting to do better at the situation at hand, not by changing the situation. I don't know of any world-renowned chess players that achieved fame by deciding they could pwn more effectively if their knights could move like queens. Yet that's the same kind of attitude I see when people go to great lengths to change the default state of the game, by turning models off, raising their gamma to ridiculous levels, or any other practice which obviously wasn't intended to be available to a normal player who simply sat down at the computer and decided to play. Not only do I think they miss out on some of the artistic ambience, but I question whether they are gaining as much overall competition skill that would translate to other parts of life.
And, about the skulk bites, I think the animation could be sped up a just little. I don't have any problems biting with the lerk because compared to the skulk the animation is fast.
Some of you say that it should stay, that life has inconveniences like this that we need to learn to deal with, and that the muzzle flash increases realism in the game. When the enjoyment of a game is hurt by "realism", that's exactly when realism needs to be discarded. There are already enough annoyances regarding the marines weapons: they have a long reload time, and a limited supply of ammunition. For those of you who think that it doesn't hurt your experience, I urge you to try the script that removes the gun and flash from view for a awhile (before they remove this capability altogether). Then go back to it; I'm sure you'll see what I mean.
wow. someone put real research data into this thread, thank you.
this explains why some people complain of having a huge problem with the opaque blob, and others with top of the line machines tell them they are straight up wrong. i'm on the edge, 50 fps running around and 19 fps in a firefight,
when is the muzzle flash is most noticable? when fighting of course.
Excuse me? Did I blatently miss all those posts that said there was notjing wrong with muzzle flash? Even if I did, I'm an NS player and it doesn't affect me any more than the skulk or lerk bite does. So a little bit of your screen is flickering, it's not like half your screen is blanked out or anything. Deal with it, this isn't a matter of some developer's "prized artwork" it's gameplay. A skulk's bite takes up just about the whole screen and some people whinge to death about this, never considering that you're dealing with a very powerful meele attack. The marines can attack from range, and their disadvantage is that a very small portion of their screen is flickering when they fire. The two more than cancel each other out. I've never been killed by not seeing an oncoming skulks because of muzzle flare. I do not notice it is there. Until I read this thread I didn't know NS HAS muzzle flare. But the fact is that it is there, so adjust yourselves accordingly if you see a problem.
Don't...make...assumptions about the developers. Especially ones as unsubstantiated and ridiculous as that.
We've heard all the arguments for and against the muzzleflash and skulk bite. If any changes are made they've already been decided upon by Flayra and wouldn't happen until version 1.1
There really is no need to debate this topic any further, since pretty much every valid point regarding it has already been discussed.