You seem to miss my point... if the marines dont get catapulted back when biting a jumping marine, taking out bunnyhop isnt needed, because I think balance wise, the problem lies in that... not bhopping =/
Click here - <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=19477' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=19477</a>
That is now on page 20 of general discussion. Please read through all 15 pages of that thread, and if you've <b>really</b> got something new to add, do so. Or stop discussing BH'ing in general and focus on what borf is talking about. Otherwise please let this topic die <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I do not understand how taking out knockback on a jumping marine will make bunny hopping acceptable. I really don't, I'm not trying to be arguementitive. What does knockback have to do with a marine getting somewhere 40% faster than a non-bunnyhopping marine?
40% faster on a marine or whatever speed it is has no relevance since aliens are just as fast if not faster... the problem is when fighting a jumping marine in GENERAL, that if your bite connects when he is jumping he catapults away...
people cant seem to grasp the concept that bunny hopping is actually much more useful for a skulks and the only reason why it seems in marine sides favor is because of the catapulting problem =/
and that happens when doing a regular backwards strafe jump as well.
Wouldn't a jumping (not BHing) marine experience the same knockback? If BHing was removed and marines still jumped to avoid skulk bites they would still get knocked back. I haven't tested this but it seems to me that it would. I agree that it technically benefits aliens more than marines, because the aliens have a greater base speed, but this still does not make it anymore acceptable. If it is completly removed (my vote) it would also effect both teams equally so no advantage for either team.
I'm really surprised this hasn't turned into a flame war and hasn't been locked. Yay for Adult Conversation!
<!--QuoteBegin--rebo+Feb 5 2003, 11:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rebo @ Feb 5 2003, 11:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes its part of TFC.... but FYI bunny hopping was not intentionally programmed into the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither was hand-held concing.
You have just gotta look and see if its good and positive for the game, i say yes it is some say no it isnt. I think it adds skill i think others prefer a dumbed down game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Adds skill?!?!? how do you figure pressing the jump button over and over is a skill dude? I think that watching abunch of marines skipping like school girls is ridicilous. Besides how are you going to jump over and over again with all that weaponry and ammo as well as armor. Tell you what go outside and take your bookbag and fill it with ohh 75 pounds of rock and go skipping down the street nonstop. I bet you wont make it 50 feet. IMO
<!--QuoteBegin--sYn|borf+Feb 5 2003, 11:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sYn|borf @ Feb 5 2003, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Balance should come before 'art' or 'atmosphere'. If skulks can bunnyhop, why remove it for marines? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> because Skulks are fast agile jumping creatures by nature
<!--QuoteBegin--CutterJoe+Feb 5 2003, 06:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CutterJoe @ Feb 5 2003, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Adds skill?!?!? how do you figure pressing the jump button over and over is a skill dude? I think that watching abunch of marines skipping like school girls is ridicilous. Besides how are you going to jump over and over again with all that weaponry and ammo as well as armor. Tell you what go outside and take your bookbag and fill it with ohh 75 pounds of rock and go skipping down the street nonstop. I bet you wont make it 50 feet. IMO <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And there is a yellow cross in the center of my vision, and i can preform just as well bleeding internally than at perfect health. Once again, look at TFC all bhop does is take some time out of the respawn->fight time. I agree that backwards bhop and silent bhop need to be fixed, THAT is unbalencing, but regular forward bhop does little other than speed up the game.
also protip, bhoping isn't "pressing the jump button over and over" to be able to maintain a bhop while shooting, is very difficult. And btw a skulk running is still faster than a bhop marine.
Now on to the real point of this thread.
There should be something done about marine knockback while they are in the air, lessen it. But don't remove it, without knockback skulks will walk all over marines. Just look at a marine in a corner (not crouching) you will almost always kill him in 2 bites if you are a decent skulk ( and he has no armor upgrades ), take that same marine put him a foot away from the wall and when you bite him he moves away giving the current disorienting feeling. But say he jumps right before getting bitten ( as most good marines do ) he goes flying to the left. (probabally mistaken for bhop by a good number here)
One final thing, if you don't like jumping stop playing FPS games, If anyone wants to comment on bhop please say what other games you've played.
I don't think it matters how many other games people have played, this is NS we are talking about. If people who play this game have an opinion on how BHing works in this game, it is a valid opinion.
However: q2ctf, q2wf, q2dm, q3dm, RA3, WFA, DoD, NS.
Bunny Hopping as you all may have not noticed is an exploit. That's like saying "Hey I found a place to walk through a wall so it must be OK."
No it is NOT ok, nor is it an acceptable skill. Even many CS servers have bunny hopping disabled via a slowdown in jumping.
You've also missed the point in what is acceptable. This game while not realistic in many aspects still has some basic rules. Marines aren't supposed to get to skulks faster to fight them. THIS GAME IS NOT A DEATHMATCH. NOT A FRAG FEST!! Why do you think scores have been removed. The ONLY reason aliens have a score is because they're supposed to be "more individual" while marines are supposed to be "more teambased".
You last concern should be how fast you can get to a skulk and you should be more concerned with how the team overall can win on any given level. And NO bunny hopping is not the way to win.
Case in point. If marines were supposed to be able to get from point A to point B Flayra would have increased their movement speed from the beginning. This obviously is not the case. Might I add also that if anyone wants to add a "suggestion" try putting it in the suggestion forum. Try a "I suggest bunny hopping"
Also why don't you make a server and have one of the rules be "bunny hopping allowed". Then you can bunny hop to your hearts content. Let's move on shall we? This topic is like beating dead horse.
I see the solution you're suggesting to keep B-hopping in the game. I think flay is going to kill it entirely, and that means you'll have to walk with all the newbies to your waypoints, use phasegates more, and not make it to hives in under 20 seconds (without a gate). B-hopping makes this game a LOT easier, and I think posting arguments for or against it are asking for flames, and this thread proves that.
Fix the hitbox issue first, then worry about B-hopping, or fix both at the same time, which might lead to balance issues.
BTW: If you were to get rid of knockback entirely you're right, it would make B-hopping a lot more fair, but with the hitbox issue as bad as it is (you have to pray, aim at the ceiling, and bite like a mofo to kill a B-hopping marine who is good, otherwise all you get is (invulnerable) steel-toed boot)
<!--QuoteBegin--sYn|borf+Feb 5 2003, 12:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sYn|borf @ Feb 5 2003, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 40% faster on a marine or whatever speed it is has no relevance since aliens are just as fast if not faster... the problem is when fighting a jumping marine in GENERAL, that if your bite connects when he is jumping he catapults away...
people cant seem to grasp the concept that bunny hopping is actually much more useful for a skulks and the only reason why it seems in marine sides favor is because of the catapulting problem =/
and that happens when doing a regular backwards strafe jump as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, marines are SUPPOSED to be slower, not same speed as skulks, but ok. B-hopping as skulks works, it isn't really useful since you're almost as fast as when you run, and you should be faster as a running skulk than a marine (unless he's jp'ed) at all points in time, that's why marines have 2 guns and 1 close-range weapon to begin with, to keep them back. Skulks have a back-up pea shooter if they don't feel they can close a gap between them and a marine. And by pea-shooter I mean they don't even try to kill you if they start firing parasites, they're just trying to divert your attention from something else (well, a smart skulk would)
I fear that this game becomes TOO fast-paced if you leave the marines as fast as skulks. A horde of skulks assaulting the marines while setting up makes sense, kill them before they set up. A bunch of marines, bouncing up and down, reaching the hive in less time then one would think not only looks weird, but turns this game into DMC. (I would argue so does the skulk rush, but to beat a skulk rush it's all about aim and positioning of the marines, against a marine rush the skulks have to ambush and can't shoot them from afar)
I'm starting to get flamey so I won't post again in this thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--sYn|borf+Feb 5 2003, 12:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sYn|borf @ Feb 5 2003, 12:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 40% faster on a marine or whatever speed it is has no relevance since aliens are just as fast if not faster... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> (must maintain control of snarling id.... DOWN, BOY!)
The aliens are meant to be faster. That's an intentional part of the game. Making the marines faster than they're supposed to be has a lot of relevance. This is why it's called an "exploit" instead of a "feature" or an "easter egg".
One might as well say that the skulks-with-guns exploit had no relevance, since the marines had them too.
NO, I'm not saying bunnyhopping is as bad as that exploit. The point is that the two races are supposed to have distinct advantages and disadvantages. Marines get guns. Skulks get to move fast. If marines get to move quickly and silently, it not only hurts atmosphere (marines skipping like schoolgirls), but it hurts balance.
1.) Silent bunnyhopping should be out 2.) A skulks just running can catch up to a bhopping marine 3.) A skulk bhopping is much faster than a bhopping marine 4.) Its not bhopping thats the problem imo, its the marines bouncing back form bites (and as someone brought up, hitboxes) 5.) I dont even bhop..ever... I do not know how... and I play vs people/clans in scrims that bhop and Im not complaining -_-
sYn|borf- you may be right about removing/lessening the pushback. It might balance things up in clan games.
Is this any reason to leave bunny hopping in? No. Bunny hopping is being removed because it is a skill that has no part in Natural Selection. Can you perform Street Fighter 2 special moves in Natural Selection? Should you be able to? It would be an additional skill. Why is bunny hopping any different?
<!--QuoteBegin--k33l3m+Feb 5 2003, 11:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (k33l3m @ Feb 5 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--|MaTT|+Feb 5 2003, 11:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|MaTT| @ Feb 5 2003, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thank god Bunny hopping is bieng removed no matter how many newbie idiots whine and complain!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh the irony of it all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i can offically say... Swoned or So owned, cause I know we have several Harvard English majors on the forum and it is poison to their eye's to read incorrect spellings.
<!--QuoteBegin--Heresy_Fnord+Feb 5 2003, 02:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Heresy_Fnord @ Feb 5 2003, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bunny Hopping as you all may have not noticed is an exploit. That's like saying "Hey I found a place to walk through a wall so it must be OK."
No it is NOT ok, nor is it an acceptable skill. Even many CS servers have bunny hopping disabled via a slowdown in jumping.
You've also missed the point in what is acceptable. This game while not realistic in many aspects still has some basic rules. Marines aren't supposed to get to skulks faster to fight them. THIS GAME IS NOT A DEATHMATCH. NOT A FRAG FEST!! Why do you think scores have been removed. The ONLY reason aliens have a score is because they're supposed to be "more individual" while marines are supposed to be "more teambased".
You last concern should be how fast you can get to a skulk and you should be more concerned with how the team overall can win on any given level. And NO bunny hopping is not the way to win.
Case in point. If marines were supposed to be able to get from point A to point B Flayra would have increased their movement speed from the beginning. This obviously is not the case. Might I add also that if anyone wants to add a "suggestion" try putting it in the suggestion forum. Try a "I suggest bunny hopping"
Also why don't you make a server and have one of the rules be "bunny hopping allowed". Then you can bunny hop to your hearts content. Let's move on shall we? This topic is like beating dead horse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> while the game is not a "frag fest" if you can kill you cannot win. Also, if you cannot kill you are burden to your team. It does not matter if you are a handy man or a person that press their +use key. It matters if you can murder, or not murder.
The marine should not jump back very far if a skulk hits him in mid air, i think it has something to do with the damage that the marine receives as 75 is a large ammount.
There is nothing wrong with bunny hopping if both teams can equally benefit from it (its just a way to speed up the game) skulks get a lot more of a speed bonues than marines
I'm not gonna read all 4 pages of this topic. But i'll give my 2 cents on what sYn is saying.
Yeah i know what you're talking about when marines get pushed back after being bitten. I use that to my advantage a lot, and I hate it when I do it to a marine as a skulk.
As for bunny-hopping, its a skill like none other. You have to know how to do it, and you have to practice to master it. Did you ever notice that the people that know how to do it have no problem with it (even if its being used against them), but the people that dont know how to do it are the ones flaming saying it should be taken out of every half-life mod?
Saying "Bunny-hopping gives an unfair advantage to people that know how to do it" is like saying: "So & So has an unfair advantage over me because he decided to put a weight on his bat, to make his bat feel lighter, before he stepped up to the plate".
You <i>choose</i> not to learn to bunny-hop and you want to ruin it for everyone else because of your own ignorance. The fact is, only the skilled can bunnyhop, and all it does it make things move a <u>little</u> more quickly, it DOES NOT give one team an advantage over the other, no matter what the mod.
I think that bhopping should be removed because I suck at it and I can't do it and I know that you all care about my opinion because I'm very important in the grand scheme of things for NS.
S.. arc.. asm?? What is this mystical "sarcasm" you speak of?
What would you do if a dog was running up to you with the intent to gnaw you until you die? Would you stand there and let the dog eat you? Would you stand perfectly still while beating it off? No, you'd try to avoid being bitten. Bhopping has emerged because there is a lack of a tentative dodging ability in NS (HL in general, really). Sure, you can make the argument that it was taken out of CS, but that's because CS was a game of sniping things at longrange, not a close-range brawl type situation. If the TSA isn't teaching their marines basic survival techniques for hand to hand combat, I think I'll skip the recruiting office.
I think that a lot of people who want StrafeJumping (AKA Bunny Hopping) to go away are exactly the people who CANNOT perform this skill. A skill it is, as it takes practice to get it down - anyone can do it with time. I think it makes the game more amusing for one; NS is a game isn't it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I have absolutely nothing against it, nor did I ever have anything against it before I could do it well. It's been around since Quake2 and has not been a problem, up until CS when it got nerfed in the 1.3 patch. If you don't want people to bunny hop on your server just set down sv_airaccelerate (default 5 - set to 1 or 2). This *will* change the physics of your server though, and will probably make jetpack and lerk flying more difficult.
If the problem lies in your ability to aim at a SJing creature, then get better aim and tracking skills - if it lies in the fact that you get surprised by a creature who is "<i>not supposed to be there that quickly</i>" then you are caught off guard and it is your own fault.
Bunnyhopping used to be alot worse in TFC before they put the speed cap into it. You could go jumping across half the level (whether you could keep the speed up or not didn't matter. All you need is a little air control and you could still abuse it). They capped it at 170% in all HL mods (I think). Now the move that has the community divided is chophopping, but that is totally unrelated.
As for NS, silent bhop needs to be killed along with backwards bhop. I've actually never experienced a marine catapulting backwards, but that probably needs to be taken out too. I could really care less about foward bunnyhopping since I'm used to it from TFC. I myself can't actually bunnyhop that well yet (still working on it! Wheeeeeee!) I don't bunnyhop in NS, as there is no point since I play Kharaa 90% of the time anyway <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
The most unbalancing things in the game right now are backwards and silent bunnyhopping and crouching/crouch jumping (<--- That needs to just be fixed, not removed). I don't really care that much about other movement exploits (Foward bunyhop and strafe jumping, yes they are exploits of the game engine since they do go over intended speed limits, but that's irrelevant in this discussion) since they don't really impact my game that much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> But I do see were people are coming from on this issue.
My points as plain and simply as I can put them are these:
1)BHing is an unintended side effect of game physics, as accepted as it may be, it is still exploiting a game disfunction.
2)Skill or not was never a question, appropriateness is
3)Speed and agility are the Domain of the Aliens, if both sides were exactly the same it would not be an issue.
4)If marines are still knocked back from a skulk bite while NOT bhing, how does this make bhing acceptable?
I do not think that any of these points can be argued. I have already conceded that BHing gives the aliens the same boost in speed. If no one could bh, the game would be exactly the same as it is now, excpet the aliens would have the intended advantage of speed over the marines. It is completly true that BHing is a skill that needs to be learned, but does it have a place in NS simply because it exists? I do not think so.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bhopping has emerged because there is a lack of a tentative dodging ability in NS (HL in general, really).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bunnyhopping is an exploit of an attribute called sv_airaccelerate. The attribute airaccelerate lets half-life know how far to "throw" someone when they are hit with an explosive. A grenade, rocket-launcher...what have you. Taking advantage of that is called strafe jumping. Ya know, I have a tutorial on how to bunnyhop, if you guys want me to post it, lemme know. Spread the knowledge i say!
Torax: You have no conceptions of game balance. Your cries to remove bunnyhopping because of 'atmosphere' concerns must take a backseat to the game remaining entertaining and fair. You need to consider a number of factors involved in any game of NS. Relative skill of the players, relative number of players on each team and relative balance issues involved with whichever particular version of NS you are playing. Any substantial change like this will invariably alter the balance between the races and will modify the graph of relative skill between players. Please bear these points in mind before spouting your opinions for the Nth time.
honestly, i dont care what all you think, i just want to hear what Flayra has to say, if he hasnt already, about bunny hopping.
I didnt listen to the entire interview, did any of the questions have to do with bhopping? Or is there some quote that gives Flayra's opinion on the subject?
Comments
Click here - <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=19477' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=19477</a>
That is now on page 20 of general discussion. Please read through all 15 pages of that thread, and if you've <b>really</b> got something new to add, do so. Or stop discussing BH'ing in general and focus on what borf is talking about. Otherwise please let this topic die <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
people cant seem to grasp the concept that bunny hopping is actually much more useful for a skulks and the only reason why it seems in marine sides favor is because of the catapulting problem =/
and that happens when doing a regular backwards strafe jump as well.
I'm really surprised this hasn't turned into a flame war and hasn't been locked. Yay for Adult Conversation!
yes its part of TFC.... but FYI bunny hopping was not intentionally programmed into the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither was hand-held concing.
You have just gotta look and see if its good and positive for the game, i say yes it is some say no it isnt. I think it adds skill i think others prefer a dumbed down game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adds skill?!?!? how do you figure pressing the jump button over and over is a skill dude? I think that watching abunch of marines skipping like school girls is ridicilous. Besides how are you going to jump over and over again with all that weaponry and ammo as well as armor. Tell you what go outside and take your bookbag and fill it with ohh 75 pounds of rock and go skipping down the street nonstop. I bet you wont make it 50 feet. IMO
because Skulks are fast agile jumping creatures by nature
And there is a yellow cross in the center of my vision, and i can preform just as well bleeding internally than at perfect health. Once again, look at TFC all bhop does is take some time out of the respawn->fight time. I agree that backwards bhop and silent bhop need to be fixed, THAT is unbalencing, but regular forward bhop does little other than speed up the game.
also protip, bhoping isn't "pressing the jump button over and over" to be able to maintain a bhop while shooting, is very difficult. And btw a skulk running is still faster than a bhop marine.
Now on to the real point of this thread.
There should be something done about marine knockback while they are in the air, lessen it. But don't remove it, without knockback skulks will walk all over marines. Just look at a marine in a corner (not crouching) you will almost always kill him in 2 bites if you are a decent skulk ( and he has no armor upgrades ), take that same marine put him a foot away from the wall and when you bite him he moves away giving the current disorienting feeling. But say he jumps right before getting bitten ( as most good marines do ) he goes flying to the left. (probabally mistaken for bhop by a good number here)
One final thing, if you don't like jumping stop playing FPS games, If anyone wants to comment on bhop please say what other games you've played.
TF(q1 style), R6, RA3, CS, NS
However: q2ctf, q2wf, q2dm, q3dm, RA3, WFA, DoD, NS.
No it is NOT ok, nor is it an acceptable skill. Even many CS servers have bunny hopping disabled via a slowdown in jumping.
You've also missed the point in what is acceptable. This game while not realistic in many aspects still has some basic rules. Marines aren't supposed to get to skulks faster to fight them. THIS GAME IS NOT A DEATHMATCH. NOT A FRAG FEST!! Why do you think scores have been removed. The ONLY reason aliens have a score is because they're supposed to be "more individual" while marines are supposed to be "more teambased".
You last concern should be how fast you can get to a skulk and you should be more concerned with how the team overall can win on any given level. And NO bunny hopping is not the way to win.
Case in point. If marines were supposed to be able to get from point A to point B Flayra would have increased their movement speed from the beginning. This obviously is not the case. Might I add also that if anyone wants to add a "suggestion" try putting it in the suggestion forum. Try a "I suggest bunny hopping"
Also why don't you make a server and have one of the rules be "bunny hopping allowed". Then you can bunny hop to your hearts content. Let's move on shall we? This topic is like beating dead horse.
Fix the hitbox issue first, then worry about B-hopping, or fix both at the same time, which might lead to balance issues.
BTW: If you were to get rid of knockback entirely you're right, it would make B-hopping a lot more fair, but with the hitbox issue as bad as it is (you have to pray, aim at the ceiling, and bite like a mofo to kill a B-hopping marine who is good, otherwise all you get is (invulnerable) steel-toed boot)
people cant seem to grasp the concept that bunny hopping is actually much more useful for a skulks and the only reason why it seems in marine sides favor is because of the catapulting problem =/
and that happens when doing a regular backwards strafe jump as well. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, marines are SUPPOSED to be slower, not same speed as skulks, but ok. B-hopping as skulks works, it isn't really useful since you're almost as fast as when you run, and you should be faster as a running skulk than a marine (unless he's jp'ed) at all points in time, that's why marines have 2 guns and 1 close-range weapon to begin with, to keep them back. Skulks have a back-up pea shooter if they don't feel they can close a gap between them and a marine. And by pea-shooter I mean they don't even try to kill you if they start firing parasites, they're just trying to divert your attention from something else (well, a smart skulk would)
I fear that this game becomes TOO fast-paced if you leave the marines as fast as skulks. A horde of skulks assaulting the marines while setting up makes sense, kill them before they set up. A bunch of marines, bouncing up and down, reaching the hive in less time then one would think not only looks weird, but turns this game into DMC. (I would argue so does the skulk rush, but to beat a skulk rush it's all about aim and positioning of the marines, against a marine rush the skulks have to ambush and can't shoot them from afar)
I'm starting to get flamey so I won't post again in this thread.
(must maintain control of snarling id.... DOWN, BOY!)
The aliens are meant to be faster. That's an intentional part of the game. Making the marines faster than they're supposed to be has a lot of relevance. This is why it's called an "exploit" instead of a "feature" or an "easter egg".
One might as well say that the skulks-with-guns exploit had no relevance, since the marines had them too.
NO, I'm not saying bunnyhopping is as bad as that exploit. The point is that the two races are supposed to have distinct advantages and disadvantages. Marines get guns. Skulks get to move fast. If marines get to move quickly and silently, it not only hurts atmosphere (marines skipping like schoolgirls), but it hurts balance.
1.) Silent bunnyhopping should be out
2.) A skulks just running can catch up to a bhopping marine
3.) A skulk bhopping is much faster than a bhopping marine
4.) Its not bhopping thats the problem imo, its the marines bouncing back form bites (and as someone brought up, hitboxes)
5.) I dont even bhop..ever... I do not know how... and I play vs people/clans in scrims that bhop and Im not complaining -_-
Is this any reason to leave bunny hopping in? No. Bunny hopping is being removed because it is a skill that has no part in Natural Selection. Can you perform Street Fighter 2 special moves in Natural Selection? Should you be able to? It would be an additional skill.
Why is bunny hopping any different?
borf- I still don't see why removing knockback would make bhing acceptable. Have you tested the knockback on a normal jumping marine?
oh the irony of it all <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i can offically say... Swoned or So owned, cause I know we have several Harvard English majors on the forum and it is poison to their eye's to read incorrect spellings.
No it is NOT ok, nor is it an acceptable skill. Even many CS servers have bunny hopping disabled via a slowdown in jumping.
You've also missed the point in what is acceptable. This game while not realistic in many aspects still has some basic rules. Marines aren't supposed to get to skulks faster to fight them. THIS GAME IS NOT A DEATHMATCH. NOT A FRAG FEST!! Why do you think scores have been removed. The ONLY reason aliens have a score is because they're supposed to be "more individual" while marines are supposed to be "more teambased".
You last concern should be how fast you can get to a skulk and you should be more concerned with how the team overall can win on any given level. And NO bunny hopping is not the way to win.
Case in point. If marines were supposed to be able to get from point A to point B Flayra would have increased their movement speed from the beginning. This obviously is not the case. Might I add also that if anyone wants to add a "suggestion" try putting it in the suggestion forum. Try a "I suggest bunny hopping"
Also why don't you make a server and have one of the rules be "bunny hopping allowed". Then you can bunny hop to your hearts content. Let's move on shall we? This topic is like beating dead horse. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
while the game is not a "frag fest" if you can kill you cannot win. Also, if you cannot kill you are burden to your team. It does not matter if you are a handy man or a person that press their +use key. It matters if you can murder, or not murder.
The marine should not jump back very far if a skulk hits him in mid air, i think it has something to do with the damage that the marine receives as 75 is a large ammount.
There is nothing wrong with bunny hopping if both teams can equally benefit from it (its just a way to speed up the game) skulks get a lot more of a speed bonues than marines
Its not a problem.
Yeah i know what you're talking about when marines get pushed back after being bitten. I use that to my advantage a lot, and I hate it when I do it to a marine as a skulk.
As for bunny-hopping, its a skill like none other. You have to know how to do it, and you have to practice to master it. Did you ever notice that the people that know how to do it have no problem with it (even if its being used against them), but the people that dont know how to do it are the ones flaming saying it should be taken out of every half-life mod?
Saying "Bunny-hopping gives an unfair advantage to people that know how to do it" is like saying:
"So & So has an unfair advantage over me because he decided to put a weight on his bat, to make his bat feel lighter, before he stepped up to the plate".
You <i>choose</i> not to learn to bunny-hop and you want to ruin it for everyone else because of your own ignorance. The fact is, only the skilled can bunnyhop, and all it does it make things move a <u>little</u> more quickly, it DOES NOT give one team an advantage over the other, no matter what the mod.
S.. arc.. asm?? What is this mystical "sarcasm" you speak of?
I have absolutely nothing against it, nor did I ever have anything against it before I could do it well. It's been around since Quake2 and has not been a problem, up until CS when it got nerfed in the 1.3 patch. If you don't want people to bunny hop on your server just set down sv_airaccelerate (default 5 - set to 1 or 2). This *will* change the physics of your server though, and will probably make jetpack and lerk flying more difficult.
If the problem lies in your ability to aim at a SJing creature, then get better aim and tracking skills - if it lies in the fact that you get surprised by a creature who is "<i>not supposed to be there that quickly</i>" then you are caught off guard and it is your own fault.
As for NS, silent bhop needs to be killed along with backwards bhop. I've actually never experienced a marine catapulting backwards, but that probably needs to be taken out too. I could really care less about foward bunnyhopping since I'm used to it from TFC. I myself can't actually bunnyhop that well yet (still working on it! Wheeeeeee!) I don't bunnyhop in NS, as there is no point since I play Kharaa 90% of the time anyway <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
The most unbalancing things in the game right now are backwards and silent bunnyhopping and crouching/crouch jumping (<--- That needs to just be fixed, not removed). I don't really care that much about other movement exploits (Foward bunyhop and strafe jumping, yes they are exploits of the game engine since they do go over intended speed limits, but that's irrelevant in this discussion) since they don't really impact my game that much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> But I do see were people are coming from on this issue.
1)BHing is an unintended side effect of game physics, as accepted as it may be, it is still exploiting a game disfunction.
2)Skill or not was never a question, appropriateness is
3)Speed and agility are the Domain of the Aliens, if both sides were exactly the same it would not be an issue.
4)If marines are still knocked back from a skulk bite while NOT bhing, how does this make bhing acceptable?
I do not think that any of these points can be argued. I have already conceded that BHing gives the aliens the same boost in speed. If no one could bh, the game would be exactly the same as it is now, excpet the aliens would have the intended advantage of speed over the marines. It is completly true that BHing is a skill that needs to be learned, but does it have a place in NS simply because it exists? I do not think so.
Bunnyhopping is an exploit of an attribute called sv_airaccelerate. The attribute airaccelerate lets half-life know how far to "throw" someone when they are hit with an explosive. A grenade, rocket-launcher...what have you. Taking advantage of that is called strafe jumping. Ya know, I have a tutorial on how to bunnyhop, if you guys want me to post it, lemme know. Spread the knowledge i say!
its copyright you flaming newb
I didnt listen to the entire interview, did any of the questions have to do with bhopping?
Or is there some quote that gives Flayra's opinion on the subject?