Relocation...a Failed Strategy.

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

The only good I see about relocating, is that you will lose to only fades and not onos.

That extra time and extra resources early in the game destroys the marines advancements and gives the aliens that extra time needed to get a RP.

As an alien player, I smile when the marines relocate, then go caputre their original resource point, as they never go back. Thanks for the freebie!

I have yet to see this tactic work.

Tempus · February 2003

I agree. You lose the initiative. You lose the resources you spent on another comm chair. You lose your original resource node. And you waste all kinds of time.

It works sometimes, but only against crap aliens.

Kid-A · February 2003

This has been discussed many times. And there is even an active thread atm. Why did you start a new one. Suffice to say using the search function will provide you with a wealth of pro's and con's.

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Feb 3 2003, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> This has been discussed many times. And there is even an active thread atm. Why did you start a new one. Suffice to say using the search function will provide you with a wealth of pro's and con's.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
"I AM THE THREAD POLICE! THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED MANY TIMES!"

Maybe I didn't feel like it. You could have always skipped it. Then again, you could have always kissed my big Marine butt too!

Regardless, it's a worthless fatalistic strategy. I just want to know how there can be soooo many noobs in the game still?

Obliterater · February 2003

Relocating is a big gamble, if you succesfuly do it, then you lose 30 resorces for the comm chair, and 7 from recycling the IP. The benifit is you only have to make one turret farm, and it can make holding a second hive easier later on.

If it does not work well however, you will either lose, or be slowed down to much by the resorce cost and lose to fades quickly.

Also, on ns_nothing relocating to Cargo Bay seems to work, because of so many resorces in close enough proximity to be defended extremly easily, aside from that, relocationg is a gamble as mentioned above.

Liku · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Feb 3 2003, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I have yet to see this tactic work.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You haven't played NS long enough than!

hoju2 · February 2003

The biggest advantage I would think is one of position. For example, Cargo Bay has 3 RT's very close to the base! Also the vent nearby allows easy quick access to Viaduct. Clearly there are some major advantages to moving the Marine base to Cargo.

Havanna · February 2003

If you play long enough you'll see one skulk kill a team of 20 marines and win. Chaos theory means nothing. His point is valid. In a scrim, or even in a pub server, relocation usually means death. People tend to forget there's an RT in your base. Your home base with IP's is sorta like locking down a free RT. Normally when you grab RT's, you never lock them down, and now you have one free. If you secure a hive, it's 2. If you relocate to secure a hive, you're stuck with one again.

Also, the "at least you'll only get Fades, not Onos" is pretty much null. Those upgrades will help you grab 2 hives, and there isn't much difference between Fades and Onos, both largely spell doom. Well, Fades can easily be beaten by teching, but if you relocated, you won't have tech'd now would you? That's what I thought.

V_MAN · February 2003

I've only seen this work once and it was on ns_nothing, the marines relocated to cargo bay and sat on their 3 res nodes there plus the one in generator which was also locked down. They were a very well organised marine team btw, they wroked well as a team rushing the fades in twos to push them back and using nades when the lerks provided umbra. They basicaly sat there until they had all their upgrades and were able to march out of cargo in HA and armed with HMGs on their heighest level. we got our arses kicked lol even though we had the res to go fade again everytime we died but it took to much time, the only way we could kill them was to get in close and use the swipe attack but it usually cost the fade his life to kill just one marine who would respawn faster, be kitted out and attacking again while the fade was still evolving or waiting to be spawned <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

Catpoker · February 2003

we relacated just yesterday on eclpise

its all abouyt taking two hives before the aliens even think about it

but, in ANY strategy, it is only as good as the skill and teamwork of everyone on the team

Lucid · February 2003

It takes somewhere around 100 res (atleast) to "lock down" a hive. you lose 30 res by relocating. Either way you have a hive. Relocating costs less. Plus you won't ever lose that hive unless ofcourse you lose the game. Good places to relocate are, Processing on hera, atmospheric in bast, cargo on nothing, and maintenance on eclipse. Places NOT to relocate are noname in nancy, Refinery in bast, engine in bast, eclipse in eclipse, and ventilation in hera.

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

I played a game the other day where the noob commander, who claimed he was an excellent commander (that always makes me sweat) relocated to Refinery on Bast. Wow, was that the biggest screw up! No way you can defend in there. The level 1 lerks caused us nothing but grief! Even after locking down a second hive following this strategy, aliens started in Engine Room, we lost the game. And yes, they got the free resource at our old base. Sigh......

Kadreallost · February 2003

Harry you DID relise their is a relocation thread that was still near the top when you started yours =/

Lucid · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Feb 4 2003, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I played a game the other day where the noob commander, who claimed he was an excellent commander (that always makes me sweat) relocated to Refinery on Bast. Wow, was that the biggest screw up! No way you can defend in there. The level 1 lerks caused us nothing but grief! Even after locking down a second hive following this strategy, aliens started in Engine Room, we lost the game. And yes, they got the free resource at our old base. Sigh......  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
ya I relocated there once because the main base was getting raped early and the only thing I could do was drop a CC at refinery. I Learned really quick why it's a bad bad place to relocate. An alien imediately went gorge up in the rafters and placed a few OC's and DC's up there. We spent 10 minutes trying to get siege up. Needless to say the game was well out of our hands by that point. A few attempts to take engine room failed and that was it.

Sandrock · February 2003

I agree with the fact that by relocating, you only have to defend one location, rather than two. But you also have to look at it from the alien's point of view. Now they only have one location to focus their attacks on. Thats a common strategy I see. While a few of the aliens are attacking the marine team at a hive, another small force ravages the marine base. Usually, if the base is not well-defended because the marines are focusing their efforts on the hive, by the time the commander realizes the base is being attacked, the damage could already be done. Base relocation is a risky strategy, and has its pro's and cons. Yes, you only have to defend one location, but now the aliens can more effectively focus their attacks on that same location because they dont have to worry about where else you are.

You also have to take into account where you are relocating. On ns_nancy, I see many marine teams relocate to the subspace hive. That I dont quite understand. Yes, its a big wide open space and is easy to shoot oncoming skulks, but unless you have jetpacks, it only has one exit. A gorge comes by and decides to slap down a wall of lame, and your forced to spend even more res (and time) putting up a siege. You have to choose the most effective location to relocate to. Its a risky strategy, but if pulled off right (and you have half-assed marines) it can be very effective.

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kadreal<lost> @ Feb 4 2003, 09:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Harry you DID relise their is a relocation thread that was still near the top when you started yours =/  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yes.....buy my thead is against relocation where theres is definately for it.

Dubbilex · February 2003

WHat many people like Mr. Truman here do not understand is that NS cannot EVOLVE without new strats. How fun would the game be if EVERY game the EXACT same strategy was used? How long would the fun-factor of Natural Selection last? Not long for me-I'm sure this is the case with many others, as well.

The relocation strategy CAN be successful, but only when it is used QUICKLY, by a team of good marines. So what if it costs an extra 30 res-thats TWO less turets! *Cry*

The turrets can EASILY be replaced by marines. Marines aim better, are able to get more concentrated fire in one area, and last a lot longer (depending on said marine's skill, again). There is really nothing gamebreaking about taking the original marine resource tower-oftentimes this tower will be completely unguarded and can EASILY be taken back by the marines a bit later. Making the aliens focus on defending TWO spots (marine base and ffirst hive) can prove to make the difference in a game.

More realistically, the abandoned marine spawn will be either:

1: completely Neglected, or...

2: The main focus of the aliens.

Making the aliens focus on a goal OTHER than the second hive can slow their game up greatly, allowing the marines to gain any lost resources back rapidly.

Therefore, the relocation is like booze - awesome; but in moderation only. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

GUTB · February 2003

Relocation is strictly for n00bs who still think there is "strategy" in this game. There is not. There is only Hive capping and teching up.

V_MAN · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GUTB @ Feb 4 2003, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Relocation is strictly for n00bs who still think there is "strategy" in this game. There is not. There is only Hive capping and teching up.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
All hail the one who knows everything!

Kadreallost · February 2003

Last i checked you don't have to aggree with the person who posted the thread to post in it, many people have already posted how it didn't work for them, if yours is the same subject and you disaggree just post there like everyone else, if you make a specail thread for those that disaggree then what i think you want is a poll...

Harry_S_Truman · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kadreal<lost> @ Feb 4 2003, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Last i checked you don't have to aggree with the person who posted the thread to post in it, many people have already posted how it didn't work for them, if yours is the same subject and you disaggree just post there like everyone else, if you make a specail thread for those that disaggree then what i think you want is a poll... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

So you continue to add to the tread...LOL. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> Last time I checked, you were allowed to post your opinions regardless if someone else has a thread or not.

Ok, I've played my first game where relocation worked but it turns into a map issue. In the instance that it worked, it would only have worked where it did. Still, if it wasn't for a fairly competent team of Marines and an excellent commander, we would have failed.

RandomEngy · February 2003

I already said why I like relocating in the other thread. There are of course the obvious benefits of securing a hive with a minimum resource investment, and the obvious disadvantage of losing a CC and a res tower. However, if you press for the next hive early on, you'll have a good chance of getting it, provided you didn't make any turrets. Also, the leftover CC can distract a skulk for quite a while. While he's sitting there for 2 minutes munching it, you're locking down hive #2.

Immacolata · February 2003

On nothing, relocating to Cargo can be a very good strategy. I dunno about clan scrims, but the 3 res nodes withing marine distance and easy access to Via is good. You will fight a 30 res deficiency for a while, but if that means you can save 1 tf and 1 turret in old base, cost recovered.

On maps like Caged it's a BAD IDEA if you chose to relocate to Sewer or Generator, since they have no immediate ressoruce node that you can easily defend. The node in sewer is within comfortable vent distance of Via hive, and the generator nozzle is a good walk away, down laddesr and through tunnels from the hive itself. No, definitely not a good idea. Via is so far away from marine base that an early relocation is difficult.

On most other maps you lose out your base RP and dont gain anything extra in the new hive base but 30 lost res for your CC.

Only on Nothing can a relocation be a good idea IMO. On other maps or places its at best a risky tactic, more risky than attempting a 2 hive lockdown.

Ardesco · February 2003

Just my comments after a long hiatus of not-posting:

Relocation is a fine strategy in and of itself. Its creative, it gets your marines to work together, it even makes the beginning of the game very tense and exciting as you hang between survival and death. However, in all its glory, the relocation strat is not a good one. All hives are harder to defend than the corresponding marine start. Plus, if you want to win games faster, you should work on attacking the existing alien hives instead of deterring them from putting up a new hive. So many things can go wrong with your defense in relocation rushes, but as they say, the best defense is a good offense. And that's no lie =)

Kid-A · February 2003

I think 1 important point people seem to over look when relocating to a hive is that you don't actually need to be in the hive itself. I just won a game (my first 1.04 comm win <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>) on caged using relocating. I actually built the base by the res outside sewer. Then built turrets and segies in the vents so I could seige any buildings.

Aliens had won at least 3 times in a row before (i wasn't comm btw). We got vent very quickly after securing sewer and proceeded to win with a very slow two hive lockdown. We only had two res and it took a long time to win but there you go. Personally I consider caged to be one of the most alien friendly maps so was pleased to win at all.I had to be pretty awake as they started hives 4 times, but I managed to spot it each time.

So I think it's *definately* a valid strategy to relocate, but it needs to be done quickly with some thought given to the spot. For example relocate to the res point outside datacore on hera, you have yourself a spot that you can seige two hives from. Get that and tbh it's gg aliens.

You may not rate the tactic, but "Predictability is death" so its a good idea to keep it as an option rather than writing it off completely.

Immacolata · February 2003

Aye, Caged is alien bliss. Just as Bast is marine bliss. Grats on winning that, I've always torn my hair out when marining on Caged due to the annoying placement of res nozzles.

NeoGregorian · February 2003

Like most with most games with strategy, in NS its like Rock, Paper, Scissors. What goes against something may not be good at all against an opponents other tactic, and as has been said somewhere else:
No tactic survives first contact. And this is mostly true, you SHOULD learn and adapt to the opposing teams advancement.
Tech-Defence and you will fall back in resources
All out offence will result in weak defence and the possibility of being stabbed.
Offensive teching leaves you vulnerable on most spots

Its all really a balance, and although i dont like being "the one" in charge (comm) i like to know the strategies under work by both teams. Getting the great advantage... of Information!

And Information is Power!!!

kinein · February 2003

Done it quite a number of times. As long as you got a team that follows orders acts quickly and follows the commands to the dot. You are absoloutely fine and its a nice accomplishment.

Nicator · February 2003

If you're going for a tech rush, relocating works fairly well as long as you pick the right place - preferably an are that is easy to defend and controls lots of res. Cargo bay outside the fusion hive on (tanith?) is a good place - it controls a lot of res, and forces aliens to go a long way if they want to get to waste/satcomms and not go through your base. Relocating saves the res for a PG if you're going for a lockdown. It's also more reliable than a lockdown given how utterly easy PGs are to take down in 1.04. The problem with it is that it requires a coordinated bunch of marines.

Trevelyan_006 · February 2003

yea... i just got done playing a game of eclipse, when our HMG rush blew (sigh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> ) we relocated, and i thought "dude, WTF is the commander thinking" but i dug right in, and i helped out the most i have ever helped sence i started playing... THE ALIENS SUCKED... they got the second hive up, but 2 marines with LMGs took many a fade down... wasting RPs... so 80% of the time they did have the second hive, they had no fades... another thing, we were able to take just about every single RP on the map (yes i had the mind to go to my spawn, the commander was like, "dude, great idea!" of course the aliens never even went there...

I ran around with a jetpack and a welder going resource hunting, once in a while, taking our several skulks on their way to our fortified base... i rushed the second hive several times, but i failed with a jetpack and welder 2(they spammed so many OTs in the hive area... just flying around got me hit) But i finally said, screw it, and i told the comm to give every single marine HMG HA Welder combo (yes, we had over 300 RPs... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> ) then the aliens suffered a humiliating defeat... so remember, dont give up hope.... the aliens could just suck bad and you can win!

Maddok · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Obliterater @ Feb 3 2003, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Relocating is a big gamble, if you succesfuly do it, then you lose 30 resorces for the comm chair, and 7 from recycling the IP. The benifit is you only have to make one turret farm, and it can make holding a second hive easier later on.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Ok I scanned thru the posts so far. here is my thoughts on relocating: this is only a viable tactic if you have a marine who can hold a hive against aliens and you can survive in the hive you moved to without turrets. everyone assumes that without turrets you will lose. this is often true. but not if you are a good team.

another thing to mention, and this may sound suicidal, but you can survive without a single IP in the beggining of the game.good defense against the first rush is crucial in this strategy, but if you can pull it off with a maximal number of marines...

Relocation...a Failed Strategy.

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