Frustration - Am I Comming Wrong?
StormLiong
Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Members
Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Members
<div class="IPBDescription">another comm guidance</div> Well there has been alot of post on this matter. I myself am going through the games when I as a comm think we marines will win but instead get raped in the end.
I don't to bore u all wif all teh game details from start but I will say that it was NS_nancy. Alines had us pinned good. We were able to hold 4 res towers and had 15 players each team. We had unamed hive but couldnt even move into mess hall or port cos the alines just kept pinning us down. One group after another just got massacred by them.
But I was teching up while this all happened. By the time fades came, I had upgraded everything to the max and had enuf res to give at least half teh team HA, welders n HMG. I tot should be no problem now to push back to get a hive. I kept on giving HA and welders and told them to push into subspace.
What happend? We were slowly losing ground and in the end lost. Now tell me, was it my fault for poor planning? or is just my marines skillz? I just dont want to be blamed for a lost when I have given my marines the best upgrades n equipment to combat 2nd units. I mean I always thought that even if I only had one hive (and hold enuf res towers), if i tech up max i should be able to push teh fades back.
I don't to bore u all wif all teh game details from start but I will say that it was NS_nancy. Alines had us pinned good. We were able to hold 4 res towers and had 15 players each team. We had unamed hive but couldnt even move into mess hall or port cos the alines just kept pinning us down. One group after another just got massacred by them.
But I was teching up while this all happened. By the time fades came, I had upgraded everything to the max and had enuf res to give at least half teh team HA, welders n HMG. I tot should be no problem now to push back to get a hive. I kept on giving HA and welders and told them to push into subspace.
What happend? We were slowly losing ground and in the end lost. Now tell me, was it my fault for poor planning? or is just my marines skillz? I just dont want to be blamed for a lost when I have given my marines the best upgrades n equipment to combat 2nd units. I mean I always thought that even if I only had one hive (and hold enuf res towers), if i tech up max i should be able to push teh fades back.
Comments
How to get a seige- Build a turret factory, and upgrade it, then you can build seiges near it.
I was thinking of abandoning mess hall but there was no where else to go. I go to one area, mass skulk rush comes in. Plus i couldn't get all my men to be together. The vent hall near port was kinda useless cos i cant siege port from there plus i always found that area was a very hard point to get a hive.
It should probably also be said that NS is just not designed for 15 a side matches. Server operators, particularly some of the American servers need to drop the attitude that bigger is better, just because you CAN host a 32 player NS server doesn't mean you should. The game achieves balance somewhere between 6 and 9 a side, games outside this bracket are likely to run into problems. Not least of which are the size of the maps, nancy is cramped enough as it is. Ultimately, playing with such large teams should result in a marine advantage anyway.
Couple things to keep in mind-
-Grenade Launcher- Grenade spamming an area you're trying to defend helps a lot, murders poor skulks.
-Build your TF and phasegate in the very center of the room, most don't, I do. It's more effective to surround them with turrets then to try and get them in the corner and allow a blind spot sometimes.
Could be skill-less marines or it could be a comm who spent all his time in base and didn't bother to command at all.
Of course, that's if they know what they're doing.
this is what is wrong
i would say 95% of games lost on the marines (in pubs) is becuase of this one quote
But don't bite off more than you can chew - the weakness of most commanders (and the one you seem to be exibiting) is that of only-attack-hive-itis. It's helpful to keep in mind that the aliens are basically defending the whole map, and the marines are trying to take it from them. Every room you gain control of is a small victory for you, and a small loss for the aliens. Every room they manage to hold is a small victory for them, and a small loss for you. Small victories and small losses add up to big victories and big losses.
Therefore, if you keep getting beat back from the hives, then crawl your way to victory. Build an armory and phase in every major room or hallway you manage to take, or have your team harass an alien resource node en masse, then extablish a base there, etc. Aliens are going to be inclined to defend stuff with their hivesight, and because you are on offense, you'll usually have the advantage because you have a full group of armored marines, and they have a rag-tag group of fades frantically trying to defend against you. If you just keep attacking, and keep the aliens scattered (if you have a REALLY competent marine team, attack in two places at once to keep things confusing for aliens), then eventually your opportunity to attack a hive will come.
And I guarantee you, GUARANTEE YOU, that you'll see no fades or lerks in your bases as long as you attack. But if you attack and fail miserably, ie biting off more than you can chew, then they'll retaliate with some pretty ugly results for you.
Good luck!
Send these three together:
HA/HMG
HA/Welder
HA/GL
GL takes care of long-range problems and Umbra-ing Lerks, mostly suppressive fire. The HMG nails anything that gets into mid-close range, trying to charge the little group. The Welder keeps both of the others alive from any acid rockets that might be potshotted toward you, and acts as an extra-close-range fighter, popping skulks with the torch and giving a little more kick to the HMG when taking out a Fade. If the welder's feeling a little unarmored, he can drop it and have one of the others weld him up again before taking his weapon back. So long as the three work together, they can take out five or six Aliens with ease, regardless of morph level.
Not to even speak of the six HA/Welder (NOTE: **NO** HMG) rush. It's almost impossible to take 'em down, especially so with a Comm who occasionally drops medpacks.
Desperation (or a quick and cheeseball game):
JP/HMG/Welder
I've kept a game going where we were stacked against 2:1 odds just by outfitting everyone with JP/Welders, keeping the hives down. Adding in HMGs only makes them more deadly to any Skulks or Lerks that might try to stop them from completing their assigned task. Yes, it's overpowered. Yes, it's a cheap way to win a game. No, I don't recommend using it if you are playing to have FUN.
Yes, it's overpowered. Yes, it's a cheap way to win a game. No, I don't recommend using it if you are playing to have FUN.
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That is a naive way of viewing the issue. Refusing to use effective strategies purely because they are effective defeats the object of the game. This is a strategy game, by default there are tactics which are effective and tactics which are not effective, you engage your brain and make use of the strategies that are effective, in return your opponent must engage his brain, see that you will use the most effective strategy, and devise a way to defeat it. This is how games progress. If you refuse to progress and stick your fingers in your ears shouting "LALALA" you will never appreciate the depth of the game. Play to win, and you will appreciate the 'Fun' of countering your opponents powerful strategy, knowing that he was doing his best to defeat you rather than poncing around with his own made up rules of how the game should be played.
Anyways keep trying we need lots of good commanders out there rawr <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
Couldn't agree more.
Any way, the comm should focus on getting and securing resources nodes. It is sometimes better to forgo the hive lockdowns and grab more res nodes.
1. have a plan
2. be able to abandon it (very important)
Don't keep doing the same thing over and over because.
a. you will be predictable
b. chances are if it didn't work the first 5 times it will not work the 6th.
3. USE your marines. Do not randomly hand out equipment except in emergencies.
a. Aliens LOVE to attack the standard marine. Send some off on a mission where you want the fades to be. (give one a jetpack and a hmg and have him go throught the vents to sub and fire a few rounds into the hive to draw the fades away.) "alright marine fire 10 rounds into the hive, then wait 20 seconds and fire 10 more then hide."
b. TIME your attacks
c. The aliens are not usually smart enough to fight on 2 fronts well.
3. FLANK FLANK FLANK
4. USE the aliens mistakes agianst them.
There are many other things to keep in mind but battle is too fluid to put them down on paper, experience is what will teach you.
dex
Of course, the backbone of everything that is marine is always teamwork.
Only if your talking 6v6 or something, than yes, sure. In a bigger game, no.
This might be a but off-topic but can i just say "wow!". Flayra given a comment on my post! /me jumps in joy
seriously though,
Thanks Flayra, now that I have official confirmation that 2nd hive aliens are still SLIGHTLY overpowered. So i guess next time i comm to avoid 2nd hive getting up at all cost. I use to say "well as long I got one hive but tech up well I can crush fades anytime". I got to keep remembering how skillfull teh aliens are b4 thinking that now.
Seeing as how you stated you had HA/HMGs...you had the advantage over the 2 hive aliens (aliens are only slightly overpowered at 2 hives when the marines aren't teched that well), you just needed some good GLs, as we have stated before <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Can't believe I disagree with Flayra, lol
As for aliens at hive2 still being overpowered i agree. If you look at the alien tech at the very beginning the mariens have a slight advantage. If bunny hopping was gotten rid of then the advantage would be gone. However, for mariens to effectivly hold ground against hive 2 aliens they NEED to have at least level 3 ammo and armor. For mariens to have enough advantage over hive 2 aliesn to gain ground, mariens NEED to be at the very highest tech level (jp/hmgs or ha/welders). Once aliens get 3 hives it's all over.
The normal plan most comanders try is trying to take both unoccupied hives before the aliens can take another one. This is however extremely hard to do, and it normaly turns into desperatly trying to hold on to the one hive you did occupy while upgrading stuff to fight the fades that are killing your base.
I have alot of faith that the ns team will make hive 2 aliens weaker while still keeping the balance.