1.1 Q.....will Jet + Hmg
Question
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Still be able to kill hives?</div> I am NOT talking about jet/hmg rush here.Im talking about whether jet/hmg people will still be able to take down hives in 1.1.
E.G.ns_nothing,marines take over cargo and secure the area.Lots of res.Getting upgrades.Aliens starting to get 2nd hive,attempts to get near power silo or viaduct to seige thwarted by mass skulks.Marines hand out jet/hmg(9 res per tick....lots of res.) and with say....level 2 upgrades rush power silo.
In 1.1 would the marines be able to kill the hive like this?Or will they have to do the slow trek via ha/hmg and getting pounded by fades all the time?
I hope so.Why?Because yes,although jet/hmg rush is cheap,effective and nearly powerless to stop,at 2 hives with fades + webs + mass OCs,the aliens are not exactly powerless to stop jet/hmg marines killing their hive.
E.G.ns_nothing,marines take over cargo and secure the area.Lots of res.Getting upgrades.Aliens starting to get 2nd hive,attempts to get near power silo or viaduct to seige thwarted by mass skulks.Marines hand out jet/hmg(9 res per tick....lots of res.) and with say....level 2 upgrades rush power silo.
In 1.1 would the marines be able to kill the hive like this?Or will they have to do the slow trek via ha/hmg and getting pounded by fades all the time?
I hope so.Why?Because yes,although jet/hmg rush is cheap,effective and nearly powerless to stop,at 2 hives with fades + webs + mass OCs,the aliens are not exactly powerless to stop jet/hmg marines killing their hive.
Comments
Do you mean JP/HMG rushing is too effective in 1.04 and your wondering if it will be as effective a tactic in 1.1 ?
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I think the strat forces aliens to defend their hive more, which makes more sense than building offensive defenses (defense far away from the hive)
i dont want this personaly but its a solution O_o
i dont want this personaly but its a solution O_o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would actually make sense, but I'm not sure of the ramifications. I fix to the jet pack fuel bug might be sufficient.
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I heard they tried this in the beta but it wasn't viable...
Personally I think the hive should emit an umbra cloud when attacked. Would minimise hmg damage whilst still enabling gls and seiges (the "proper" anti-structure weapons) to take it down without hinderance.
Despite the fact that the first post here is somewhat difficult to understand, I do agree with it's last sentence. I've been on the reciving end up jetbo rushese before, and been quietly **** at how hard it is to stop it(though that's just skill, some seem able to Neo with any skulk and get you inside of 100 feet), so I'm not just talking game. At 2 hives, the fades arrive, and that's preety much it on 80 percent of the servers out there. It's not exactly a "specfic" in game tactic, but if it works and it's not an exploit, it should stay.
Oh, and lets NOT upgrade the hive with DC's. 1.1 should strive to make other upgrade parts apart from DMS possible.
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In fades you're dealing with a moving target that can dodge, escape and heal quickly, and also recieve upgrades. A hive has none of that, it simply sits there and the whole marine team knows exactly where it is on the map. Also, the 6000 hp a hive has is almost a joke because a hmg will tear that to shreads in a very short period of time. The umbra cloud would stop the hmg/jp combo without taking away the marines ability to destroy the hive itself. Jping with a grenade launcher is more difficult; aliens have more time to attack the jper and the grenades have to be arced just right to hit the hive when in flight. Not to mention the reloading. Giving the hive the ability to almost negate bullet damage would at least severely reduce the occurances of hive assassination. With the current system the hive goes down so fast under hmg fire that it rewards lone rambos, not teamwork. This simply should not be the case.
Negating bullet damage would be a bad idea IMO. I guess it would depend on how it worked in-game. By just plain negating bullet damage, you would probably void out or at least severely hinder the early marine rush. Its a risky strategy already, but then to totally nerf bullet damage? The only way to get this idea to work is if the hive had some sort of upgrade, or the effect didn't happen immediately. Maybe at 3 hives, the hive takes a certain % less damage from bullets (forcing them to siege or use nades)?
I'm not talking about nerfing it completly, I said an umbra cloud would be "emitted" by the hive when it was attacked. Yes, this would stop 4 out of every 5 bullets. If a whole team of marines rushed the hive they could a) knife the thing, that thing does serious damage b) just shoot at it because they will do some damage, just not as much. Knifing would be tough on say, the refinery hive on bast, but really, do we want this kind of gameplay in NS? Rush wins by either side are just boring.
Have you played StarCraft ? It's like Paper/Scissors/Stones.
An early rush strategy will beat an early economy strategy. However an early defense will beat a rush strat. A earlier economy will beat an early defense. In SC.
These kind of matchups aren't quite in NS yet.
That help?
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I heard they tried this in the beta but it wasn't viable...
Personally I think the hive should emit an umbra cloud when attacked. Would minimise hmg damage whilst still enabling gls and seiges (the "proper" anti-structure weapons) to take it down without hinderance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it shouldn't. You don't see marine CC's being untouchable by skulks, or onos or something. All weapons should be able to hurt the hive.
Rather, I'd love to see it being impossible to land on top of a hive, always, so that well build OC's could help kill a flying marine without harmlessly shooting at their own hive.
Either you leave the situation as is where lone rambo-ism is encouraged and sole marines with jetpacks and hmg's can take out the hive, thus catering to the less team-oriented manner of the pub, or you give the hive more ways of defending itself, encouraging a more team oriented way of play from the marine side, which caters to the way professionals and clans play.
I personally am for the latter, whatever makes it more team-oriented the better, I say.
An early rush strategy will beat an early economy strategy. However an early defense will beat a rush strat. A earlier economy will beat an early defense. In SC. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, wow, I was looking for a way to describe warcraft 3, and as far as I can tell, I think this sums it up perfectly, thanks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Dunno if you play it at all, but I've found war3 to be a huge disappointment in this respect.
I do think it's a good idea to have some negative effect for carrying heavy weapons while using jp, but making it illegal is taking it a bit far. Perhaps just make fuel run out faster, or greatly reduce flight speed? Also, you'd figure that much kickback from such a massive gun would knock you right into a wall anyway if you weren't bracing yourself against a solid object.
Now THAT's an idea.... Maybe something like a pistol or LMG wouldn't give too much recoil, but a shotgun would jerk you back a fair bit, and an HMG would throw you right across the room... It wouldn't be a hard restriction like "No HMGs with Jetpacks", but it would be a decision... Do you want to stick with light weapons/GLs and be in control, or do you want the extra firepower and the maneuverability disadvantage that comes with it?
Just gotta watch for the exploit... HMGs being used as vertical thrust so the JP Recharge rate > Fuel usage rate.
Prosp