Teamwork > Turrets

Frothybeverage · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Turret Farming is bad Mmmkay?</div> Turrets are a total waste of RPs 90% of the time, you can do more with those RPs to make your troops better... For example:

1 Adv. TF
3 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'>
2 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'>
is 139 RPs which could get you 2 HA w/HMG and welders and a JP'er with a welder.

Seeing as most people place 5-10 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'> in one place that's 90-180 RPs that are wasted and could be put to better use upgrading the weapons/armour of the marines.

The only major problem with not having turrets is that you need teamwork and most marines are gibbering idiots who don't play with sound and/or are deaf.

ZiGGY · February 2003

sorry I disagree here man, great to stall phase gate attackers and on a simliar note allow the marines to use their extra mobility on the battlefeild early on so they can cap those res pts. Bit useless in base maybe though depends on game numbers.

edit:gaaaah insomnia related typos

MutantMFM · February 2003

Also turret spamming is also bad I mean when they have like 30 turrets in their base. That causes majog lag and it also makes the game go on to long. But turrets are good for defending certain area when the marines are busy else where.

Frothybeverage · February 2003

Turrets are almost useless vs good skulks.

Frogg2 · February 2003

Correction: turrets are useless against good skulks

Frothybeverage · February 2003

Depends on the amount of turrets. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
And as I said, more turrets = More RPs which could be better used elsewhere.

DoADrunkMonkey · February 2003

turrets are good to defend places while your troops arn`t their, like double res points for example.

has anyone seen outposts go down after the tfs been knocked out ?
very fast <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

sekdar · February 2003

turrets are good for:

-warding off new alien players
-warding off gorges who dont feel like OC spamming
-delaying determined aliens a few seconds from eating the phase gate you've set up in their hive location <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

That's it. seriously. the res is FAR better spent in more offensive technology. A turret is static, and therefore useless for 99% of the game.

Frothybeverage · February 2003

Turrets unless spammed in a room are 100% useless, unless you have marines backing them up.

Paq · February 2003

I agree, turrets are just waste of money.
I only use them, when we manage to lock down two hives.

At early game mines are actually better than turrets and A LOT cheaper. I always give them to my troops or if not commanding i ask mines from commander.

But in public games, when your uber marine team is not very organized, i use turrets more often.

Frothybeverage · February 2003

Depending on the server you can be forced to use turrets, but if the marines don't insist on humping the armory you don't need 'em.

Akuma · February 2003

True against good skulks turrets are useless but for hive defence a set of 3 or 4 turrets and 2 marines can hold a hive very well. Thus freeing marines to hamper alien expansion and defence

ZERG · February 2003

No turrets at all just makes it that much easier for the skulks...

ZiGGY · February 2003

I almost always play a tf, 4 turret combo with mines when stalling crucial points on the map so I can get otherplaces. Im not saying turrets do the job I make sure theyre welded up every 5 min or so, with mines even an organises skulk part will struggle to take down the correct number of turretrs and mines necessary before marines can phase back. (note: always phase a tf its a big res set back but im not lame so ner ner ner)

Sifo25 · February 2003

Turrets in pub matches are viable, if they are comboed and your expectations of their results are realistic. For all of you dogging them out, you must either:

a) magically fly out of the command chair and to the hive location/res. location you want locked down and take out intruders yourself
b) play on clan servers where your marines insta-phase and obey and order for defense
c) not use turrets correctly

The correct usage is to first, place them well, and second, combo them with marines and/or mines. They WILL slow 1st hive alien progression, and have a good chance of stopping it altogether.

Where they fall apart is with everyone's favorite 2nd hive alien, Fades. Three Fades that wander into a secured location (or even a single Fade, it doesnt take that much) can set off mines safely, pick off a turret from a distance safely (while regenerating any damage incurred) and then move in on unprotected side of a TF safely. All at 90% health.

Add marines to the equation (and not 0 level weapon and armor marines either) and it becomes just a touch more difficult.

Comms. just need to ensure that the turrets have backup. Do not overestimate them, which seems so common. If turrets are worthless, try this next game you comm: have your marines capture both hives, and instead of turrets, lay tons of mines all over the floor. Then have all your marines run off. A smart alien team will set off a few mines, then call in their gorge, who will set ALL the mines off safely from a distance. And you will not get a 'Your base is being pwned' warnings when this happens. I wonder then, with a hive EMPTY of marine structures, what the aliens will build next? Hmmm...

S

P.S. I dont mean to slam you all, I just dont think a lot of people here are being realistic. Would you send all your team out of your base with 0 mines and turrets and marines to defend? If you would, you're either relocating or have balls of steel as a comm.

V_MAN · February 2003

Turrets are NOT usless you dummies in a clan match they are but they are NOT in a pub. They will buy you much need time if the aliens attack a hive you contol and if you have lvl 3 weps they will cut 90% of skulks to bits because there are not that many good skulkers out there yet. Sure marines are way better than turrets but does anyone know how hard it can be to get people to stay in one place for more than 2 minutes on a pub? Since I play on servers in the UK about 80 percent of the players are either n00bs or haven't got a clue how to speak English so turrets are vital in slowing the aliens down long enough for you to get marines to the loaction that is under attack.

Markeo900 · February 2003

Turrets are important on pubs, but against good skulking they are pretty useless if left undefended. All you gotta do is take out the turret(s) guarding the TF from a direction and sit behind it and chomp away.

Ive perfected my cirle chomping and most of the time unless i lag i can take out a lone turret firing at me without dying.

Turrets are effective if you've got marine backup though, aliens will have to split thier time betwee attacking player or turrets.

Watch the EC vs Tau game and see how when Ec are trying to seige the Computer Core on Eclipse how those 2 or 3 turret save the day many times.

Happy hunting, Mark

Kid-A · February 2003

Turrets are not useless, they are essentially PG protection, giving it enough lifespan for marines to respond. Sure if your marines listen and guard things like there supposed to there not that good, but thats rare.

Also sometimes you need alot of people to attack and can't really leave anuone to defend, turrets are ideal for this provided they can be reinforced quickly.

Oh as already mentioned fades rip apart turrets. So need serious marine back up vs. 2nd hive aliens.

The reason most people dislike them is when comm think turrets>marines at all times in the game.

Vimstl · February 2003

More and more I find myself taking the role of "voice of reason" on these tactics threads. Half the posters say "ANY turret is a waste of res"; others say "no, I use TF/4 turret combos at each strongpoint."

There is no need to always gravitate toward one end of the spectrum or another. TFs and turrets are a tool that cdrs can choose (or not choose) based on the number of marines they have, their relative competency, and the strategy the cdr has decided to pursue.

I play the game often, and I often seen messages in the upper right corner of my screen telling me an alien has been killed by a turret. This runs counter to the arguement that "all turrets are useless." I have also seen many occasions where too great an investment in turrets has doomed the marines to eventual loss by stunting their tech advancement and control of the map.

Too many threads on this board are "Always jetpack/never jetpack"; "always build chambers in this order/no THIS order"; "seize res nodes/don't seize res nodes."

Tedious, boys and girls, tedious.

Frothybeverage · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cregore @ Feb 25 2003, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The only major problem with not having turrets is that you need teamwork and most marines are gibbering idiots who don't play with sound and/or are deaf.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Read the quoted message.

I actually think turrets are basically useless, but sometimes you need them(As is detailed in the quote).

Mythr1l · February 2003

the great thing about sentrys is you dont have to leave marines at a set location, if you secure a hive with sentrys, u can leave 1 marine to guard while the rest go off to take the next hive, if you dont have sentrys then you cant really rely on just 1 marine to defend an area especially if you dont have motion tracking. thus leaving less marines on the offencive.

Dunkin_Dynamite · February 2003

turrets are overrated.

Consider RTS. Correct timing is everything.

I hate it for instance on tanith, when the game has just started and we've mined up base.

We could simply take reactor, mine it up, then move on to better things !

But everybody wants turrets. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

A foolish move .. turrets will delay a bit if we have failed offensively and they have 2 hives and are closing in with fades. And mines at that point will kill us all. But I much prefer moving fast and quick and early, by mine defense, rather than stopping at every significant junction and and blowing hundreds and wasting minutes on farming.

Rather than spend 100s, we might spend say, 24, and sieze a location quickly. Or pressure their res or hive.

Hmm. Although maybe aliens have the same sort of delay at the beginning; waiting for 2nd hive and all. Plus d chamber might not go up immediately.

However. There is a lot of time and money to be saved, even if we can't win the game early, and I feel that we must risk it - too bad that I've never met a rine team that tried mining early.

Debonair · February 2003

I think some of you may have missed the logic train on this one... Any defence that is not versitle will get whooped by good kharaa. The point of the matter is to combine defences, turrets with mines around them?!?!? Whow that keeps skulks away! Especially with a shotgun marine guarding ontop of the Res or armory. As for the math, 3 turrets and 2 or 3 packs of mines will hold an expansion against the majority of gorges, skulks, and lerks. Only a combined attack, OT spamming, fade, or Onos will do the trick after that.

Church · February 2003

Well of course with enough turrets, mines and marines an area can be very tough fore the kharaa to crack. However, the marine team simply cannot defend all the areas it needs to defend by that strategy. You'll never get enough res to turret and mine every expansion you have before the aliens get fades and lerks. The much more preferred wya in 1.04 is to just mine the areas you want to defend, and have mariens patrol those areas. Then, kill the aliens before they get a second hive.

I, also, never turret unles sI go for two hive lockdown (which is stupid in 1.04)

Xzilen · February 2003

They are useful, but only after you've secured a node or two or a hive.

Error404 · February 2003

Everyone seems to think that the only job of the turrets is to defend or protect some structure or other. The best use of turrets I've seen by a commander is not to use them to defend a structure but to <b>cut-off main routes</b> to slow down Kharaa movement and expansion. This is why the Kharaa are more successful with their offence chambers, because OCs are not used just to defend RTs but also to block passageways; Marine commanders could learn a lesson from this.

When turrets are not defending any important structures, skulks tend to leave them alone if they can find an alternative route to bypass the setup. I've played games like this before as Kharaa, and the difference is being able to get to locations quickly wether to attack or defend, alternative routes can be longer or leave you more open to ambush and attack.

Turrets should be placed strategically rather than purely as a defensive. It means understanding the map and knowing all the vents. Well placed turrets can literally divide a map into sections, which make it harder for the Kharaa to organise themselves as a large group.

Church · February 2003

Error404, your idea would be great if it actually works (i'm not saying it can't, I'm saying I've never seen it done before). IMHO, turrets don't slow kharaa down enough to justify the cost of building turrets at all. I mean, the maybe half a minute (at most) you delay the kharaa is not worth it in my opinion to spend like 96 res on a TF and 4 turrets. Besides, on some maps (like nancy) it'd never work. The vent system goes EVERYWHERE.

eaglec · February 2003

Anyone that's played when I comm knows I really dont like to use many turrets but they are useful when used to support marines, NOT replace them.

I find that marines struggle more than aliens to get through a splattering of turrets though and I spread my turrets out to allow the marines to move as freely as possible. For a foward base I place a pg, armoury, tf and about 5 turrets, I try if possible to allow easy flow of traffic off the phase gate and to and from the armoury whilst covering all sides of the base with turrets.
I also find turrets more deadly to khara at short-medium range, at point blank they can't track properly.

On average I will use 5-15 turrets in a long game. Any more is a often a waste of resources.

evilgreenie · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Markeo900 @ Feb 26 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Turrets are important on pubs, but against good skulking they are pretty useless if left undefended. All you gotta do is take out the turret(s) guarding the TF from a direction and sit behind it and chomp away.

Ive perfected my cirle chomping and most of the time unless i lag i can take out a lone turret firing at me without dying.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah, but it very rare you get only one turret firing at you. All but the noobiest Comm has read "Turret Placement 101" and more likely you've got interlocking fire requiring frequent trips to the nearest DC or a co-ordinated skulk attack (not easy on a Pub)..

Then of course you get the Marine Patrol stepping through the nearest PG & welding up in a couple of sec's any damage you've done..

Don't knock turrets - a well-placed turret farm, particularly in a hive, can tie up a fair number of kharaa & give the marines a little breathing room to cause trouble elsewhere

Frogg2 · February 2003

Turrets useful on pubs? Anyone ever thought of why aliens win most games on pub servers? Yes thats right building turret farms, and no teching! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Church · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Feb 27 2003, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Turrets useful on pubs? Anyone ever thought of why aliens win most games on pub servers? Yes thats right building turret farms, and no teching! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I agree 100%. Always tech, tech, tech! Terrans in starcraft don't win by sitting on their **** all day in bunkers! They attack and tech up!

Teamwork > Turrets

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