17 Alien Losses In A Row
mRWaffles
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4713Members
Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4713Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is this happening to anyone else?</div> Alrighty I am not talking about stupid newb pubs with commander omg0tWTHux. On servers with regs marines are unbeatable. Flame as you will "omg you are a newb alien you just sux0rz fgt" well, I've played as alien 90% of the time since 1.0 (gg_randomteam). The marines are just so over powering that with marines who can shoot like cs players (ah yes the good ol' never missing fgts), and a command that can jetpack rush/drop stuff/get someone to follow him. Commanding does not reflect the skill of the commander as much as it depends on the skill of the team he has with him at the time. Don't argue, it's true. Well I just have to wonder, is this happening to anyone else.
Winning as alien depends on the marine team lossing.
What I mean by this is that it isn't the skill of the alien team (while this does matter but not as much as) the marine team making a stupid mistake.
Winning as alien depends on the marine team lossing.
What I mean by this is that it isn't the skill of the alien team (while this does matter but not as much as) the marine team making a stupid mistake.
Comments
Yes, an organized marine team will destroy an alien team, especially on large servers. This imbalance will be quite thoroughly dealt with in 1.1.
I've been playing since the release and odds are, my team is gonna win.
I may not be the best commander, or best marine, or best alien, but I rarely lose.
Meaning, if you don't suck, you can help your team. There is an extent to the help you can provide. No man is an army, but COMMUNICATION is success.
P.S. You cannot win if the other team (be it marine or alien) is an organized group. Talent doesn't count nearly as much as teamplay.
Especially to those rambos.
That´s a major similarity to CS.
Cheating gets popular.
Winning as alien depends on the marine team lossing.
What I mean by this is that it isn't the skill of the alien team (while this does matter but not as much as) the marine team making a stupid mistake. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep on the COFR server we have a much higher level of play than on most pubs leading to marines dominating all the time. It is supposed to be harder for marines to win in 1.1. At the moment you just have to deal with the JP rushes Mine Rushes etc until the patch comes out.
changing servers can result in changing experiences.
changing servers can result in changing experiences. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed...
I usually play on Nano or FoR... Games are usually pretty well balanced... no 12v12...
Yet I still hold the opinion that rines are overpowered in clan play as well as organized pub matches.
We hit Generator right off, stayed as a group and didn't lose anyone, Comm reced the RT in original base as we went, he dropped CC, RT outside and IP beside CC, and Armory before his CC went down, we got Observatory up and Phase in base, one guy slipped to Sewer and dropped Phase and Armory there, rest of the game was really boring and slow, we just teched up patiently to W3/A1/JP/HMG/GL, he handed out JP's and choice of weapons, we had mines all over the freakin' map everywhere we could think to place them...
Time taken? Just under an hour. RT's lost in first five minutes? 4. Lerk's seen? 2. Gorges seen? 27. (Yes, they tried a Gorge Rush a couple times. :-)
Yes, an organized marine team will destroy an alien team, especially on large servers. This imbalance will be quite thoroughly dealt with in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ta-da <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Knew I was onto something
(hi there mR.Waffles)
BTW: i hate jetrushes (i have heard "its not a rush" soo many times so dont even say it) becuase it turns what is suppose to be a team game into rambos going into the hives and kiling it off wile skulks can bearly fend it off
1.1.... please come out soon to stop the lame jetrush tatic!!!
you couldnt be more right
Yes, an organized marine team will destroy an alien team, especially on large servers. This imbalance will be quite thoroughly dealt with in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. Thank God. Thank everyone. Today on Nancy, I had been playing on the server for 6 maps. I had great ping and there was an admin present to kick fools, so it wasn't worth switching to avoid the map. Anyways, aliens had won 4 of the prior 6 maps. But it was with scores like 5 to 23, 4 to 12, and my personal worst 3 to 20. The marines just couldn't be touched. I was seriously suspecting hacks, but all the marines? It got me very very mad, is what it did. Me and my team, chatting while waiting to respawn, were hashing out what was the reason. And it was pretty simple.
Marines have better versions of every alien ability, and can get them faster. Aliens rely on movement and stealth to catch their prey off guard. Well, a commander can plop down a Observatory and get Motion Tracking, which is better than anything hive sight can give, in 3 minutes. That eliminates stealth. Aliens can't just camp places in the map, they have to mobilize and move. Marine phase gates allow instant movement ANYWHERE on the map. Not just to hives. Their weapon and armor upgrades give way too much of an advantage. And the resource model HEAVILY favors marines. In games over 7 players a side, marines will win 90% of the time. They have so many RPs that they can all jump in HA and have the commander health spam them while welding each other and be completely unkillable.
I can't wait for 1.1 I sure hope that welders will be fixed. They repair armor way too fast, and never run out of ammo. Hitboxes as well.
No matter how skilled the aliens are, if the marines are competent enough to jet pack rush, the aliens will lose (especially if they recycle the armory). That is if the marines survive the initial skulk rush, but if they do and jp rush, they can prevent the aliens from ever getting a second hive and kill them off at their leisure.
As more and more people play the game and learn how to play it competently, imbalances will come to the surface. The pub players of NS are maturing and learning how to play the marines effectively.
Oh, and this means that if the marines lose, it really is the commander's fault for failing to do an effective jp rush. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (not counting any losses due to skulk rushes).
The marine's starting point is tactically worthless. In the last month, I haven't seen a game yet (except the ones where the marines are just total morons) where the marines didn't relocate to a hiveroom in the first five minutes. In fact, the way the game is set up, it's to their disadvantage NOT to relocate.
What does this do? This ensures that aliens do not get their final techniques (and I'm a BIG fan of Bile Bomb) and Onos. What can the aliens do to stop marines from getting HMG/grenades/jetpacks/heavy armor? Until the final minute of the game, absolutely nothing.
Now, let's take this a step further. The aliens have Hive A. Marines have Hive B. So now it's time to contest Hive C. If you know what you're doing, who's going to take Hive C? The marines. By the time the aliens are done taking down the final remnants of the old marine base, and the gorge finally has enough res to go for the hive, the marines have HMGs and either JPs or Heavy Armor.
Lerk doesn't even have his umbra yet, so Lerk is practically useless. So you've got a gorge with no webs and skulks with no leap/xenocide fighting for Hive C against the BFGs of the Frontiersman. Hardly a fair fight.
As for the third hive, it just further throws it to the aliens side. To the point where your team gives up, a few of them F4, a few more leave and the rest just give up all hope. It is because it is hard to enjoy the game when you get spored to death as you spawn in, bile bomb hits you from a mile away, skulks xenociding, and Onos...killing...****...
Anyway the point i'm trying to make here is that imbalance goes both ways. Ok heavies vs. skulks and stuff is unfair, i've seen all sorts of those types of posts before. But what about fade/onos vs. unupgraded marines without the resources to give the whole team HA/HMGs. The jetpack is useless against them because any remotly skilled onos can paralyze you out of the air and fades can just shoot you down with acid rocket.
It just annoys the hell out of me because on the servers i play on, unless the commander and team are way ahead of the aliens technologically there isn't much of a chance for them when they get the second hive.
but I dunno if its as bad as some people make it seem, especially in pub games.........yes in clan matches an organized marine team >>>>>>>>>>>> then aliens (I got to ob in a skirm and even be part of a skirm a week ago) and I know everyone can't wait for 1.1 but.......
something disturbs me:
Hive 2 aliens.
Hive 2 aliens are quite devestating to marines imo......I have rarely seen a lose by an alien team once they get their 2nd hive up......maybe that fact alone causes many pub comms to say "rush to jp and kill em, quick quick!"
I hope v1.1 won't leave marines SCREWED vs hive2 aliens while aliens get more breathing room from the Jetpack nerfage that is sure to come.....the fact that theres been hints to seeing many types of aliens before 3 hives seems to suggest that a total rework of balance may ineed come in (I hope)
but WTH do I know I'm just a damn n00b! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
by the way is it me or are fades damned near invincible when you fire AT THEM yet when you become on yerself it seems like your HP is goin' down fast LOL..............they neeed to strap freakin COOKIES on their heads so people will RUSH the fades and keep them from running to their D towers to jsut come back and rape us more <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just give me 1 hive and 4 resource nozzles, and my marines will wipe the map clean using HMG and HA.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hive 2 aliens are quite devestating to marines imo......I have rarely seen a lose by an alien team once they get their 2nd hive up......maybe that fact alone causes many pub comms to say "rush to jp and kill em, quick quick!"
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Are you kidding me? See above. Fades are ZERO match for a squad of HMG HA. If there's a lerk in there, the GL will deal with him quickly.
<b>Soldier of Misfortune</b> - Come sign up for the NS server at <a href='http://www.tacticalgamer.com' target='_blank'>Tactical Gamer</a> and you'll see the Marines win plenty.
I usually jump around to different servers, but often I hit c|E's, Genocide's, or joe's GWB server, I find those servers have a nice balance with experienced and non-exp. players. This makes the sides comparable. Yeah, currently aliens still win often on pub servers, but that's because too many are still just learning the game. Eventually, the clan tactics will permeate pub play as the clanners go out and teach others.
But if you jump on a server where everyone knows what they are doing, the marines will win. Heh, I guess it's like an pick-up clan game, with multiple clans.
1.04 really helped the 2 hive balance (though I feel it's slightly tilted toward aliens still). But the problem is still a JP rush; preventing the aliens from ever reaching the close-to-balanced 2 hive state. A good map to demonstrate this is missilecommand ( <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> I know some of you will throw a fit because I used 'good' and 'missilecommand' in the same sentence <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) A decent team that survives the skulk rush will jet pack rush and always win. It's impossible for the aliens to get the second hive up in time or even go lerk to shoot them down. This carries for other maps where jet packers have plenty of room to keep away from skulks and can kill the hive at their leisure.
However, I know that all these balance issues will be moot since 1.1 will drastically change things (such as being able to evolve to any class from 1 hive).
Pub servers aliens rule the game because the marine team can't work together.
Clan Matches the marine team rules the game because they CAN work together thus they overpower the aliens.
If one side has teamwork and tactics and the other side hasn't, they will win. A couple of days ago it was the aliens who had the teamwork and they were dominating, this seems to fluctuate. I do agree however that an 18 player server favors the marines due to the resource model.
Also, the JP+HMG rush is far from flawless, I will expands on this subject at our own forum. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are you kidding me? See above. Fades are ZERO match for a squad of HMG HA. If there's a lerk in there, the GL will deal with him quickly.
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actually to be honest I have yet to see a *good* GL user (me included lol)
I'm serious too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also noticed that most coms who are clannies rarely drop em even if asked
I can understand that they want it ot have a really long explosion timing for each grenade.....so that you actually have to get good at it instead of spam.......if the explosions had a 2 sec timer I and any other halfwit could easily pwn entire alien groups
but anyways.......I still think Hive 2 aliens cause mass pwnage of marines.....sure HAs WORKING TOGETHER and weilding eachother is one tough mother but how often does that happen? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Skilled fades are a match for an hmg squad, especially with a lerk in the mix. If the Marine squad is smart, and has two/three others welding constantly, and a comm spamming health, no, you won't win, unless you have three hives, and even then it would be hard. I'd suggest a frontline gorge webbing it up, because the welders will be in the back of the squad. Fades move in with blink, and the lerks can umbra right next to them.
You *may* win.
(quoting myself)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My suggestion for aliens playing on very large servers: stop going for DC right away.
Wait, come back, I wasn't finished explaining!
Really, on a server as big as 10v10 or 12v12, no matter how much carapace you have, running into 4-6 marines (they almost can't help but have teamwork under these conditions) will be a slaughter even with unupgraded LMG's. There's just way too much lead flying in the air, and you're going to get hit.
So don't fight the Marines the Marine way; go guerrilla. Get movement upgrades first, and get 3 as soon as you can. This means have 1 guy go gorge and start capping nodes. When a few guys have gotten 27 pt's, go gorge, make 1 movement chamber, then go back to skulk. Boom, 3 MC's in the first couple minutes. Now - all your skulks get silence and start using your wallclimbing skills for once. Wait in the rafters, use ambush tactics. It will be awhile before Marines can tech motion tracking no matter how fast they research. Wait for those roving patrols, and silenty pounce on the rearguard troops. You'll usually get 1 or 2 before they even figure what's going on and return fire. Do this a half-dozen times. The Marines will wimp out and turtle up, screaming like girlies at their commander for HA and weapon upgrades. This will give your gorge time to get hive 2, and then some DC's. By then, you should be all ready for fade/lerk partners (you DO use 1-1 fade/lerk partners, right?) and the final assault. Game over, alien victory, smack talking in the readyroom.
Don't believe me? Try it out! After a little practice (obviously, it requires aliens that aren't total 'GET DC J00 N00b' smacktards - but after a couple losses their way it should be easier to convince them), you'll be in the black and kicking meat sack heiny.
You can also go for a sensory set first, but that's a bit riskier and requires more experience players. Getting sensory 2nd though allows you develop the ultimate Kharaa Death Ninjas that don't show up on MT or in your ears until the claws are inches from your face. Succulent.
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