Fact Or Fiction?
Rieper
Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14305Members
Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14305Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Please dispel a few myths</div> I continuously hear the following (often contradictory) statements, depending on whoever the "resident expert" is on the server at the time:
1. Turrets suck completely.
2. Turrets make great base defense.
3. Mines suck completely.
4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.
5. Place mines only on floor in vents.
6. Place mines only near structures.
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway.
8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.
9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.
10. Full-auto on skulks.
11. Burst fire on skulks.
12. Charge them fades!
13. They've got fades, run!
14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.
15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.
16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)
17. Get second hive before anything else.
18. Get DCx3 before second hive.
19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)
20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)
21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.
22. No second gorge until second hive.
23. Always second gorge after second hive.
24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.
I don't yet have the experience to say which statements prove to be true in the long run, but it appear that what works for some does not work for all, and what doesn't work for some does not necessarily fail for others. However, it's unreasonable for me to assume that PlayerX knows more than PlayerY simply because one is present and the other is not.
As an aside, I'm getting really annoyed at nobody wanting to take comm/gorge, so someone who's at least experienced enough to know a) the basics b) that if nobody does the job it's a guaranteed loss, only to get harassed by the "resident expert". Enough with the armchair strategy already! If you don't want the hot seat, keep your trap shut! :<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->:
1. Turrets suck completely.
2. Turrets make great base defense.
3. Mines suck completely.
4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.
5. Place mines only on floor in vents.
6. Place mines only near structures.
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway.
8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.
9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.
10. Full-auto on skulks.
11. Burst fire on skulks.
12. Charge them fades!
13. They've got fades, run!
14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.
15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.
16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)
17. Get second hive before anything else.
18. Get DCx3 before second hive.
19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)
20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)
21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.
22. No second gorge until second hive.
23. Always second gorge after second hive.
24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.
I don't yet have the experience to say which statements prove to be true in the long run, but it appear that what works for some does not work for all, and what doesn't work for some does not necessarily fail for others. However, it's unreasonable for me to assume that PlayerX knows more than PlayerY simply because one is present and the other is not.
As an aside, I'm getting really annoyed at nobody wanting to take comm/gorge, so someone who's at least experienced enough to know a) the basics b) that if nobody does the job it's a guaranteed loss, only to get harassed by the "resident expert". Enough with the armchair strategy already! If you don't want the hot seat, keep your trap shut! :<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->:
Comments
2. false for good aliens
3. false, they are good ad the beginning
4. false
5. false, place them on floors everywhere
6. false, place them near structures and in dark places where skulks usually go (corridor corners)
7a. false
7b. true
8. it depends on the situation
9. false
10. just if they are near
11. if they aren't too near
12. true if you don't have expensive equipment
13. false, get HA/HMG
14a. false - see below
14b. false - if hives aren't secured enough there is a chance
15. it depends on the comm strategy. Only defend double-res points if it's needed. Single res aren't worth it.
16. false, after some time they give you back the res you spent on it
17. false, get some resssources first
18. it depends on the ressource flow
19. false, MT is good but it's not a priority.
20. false, this one was true in 1.03
21. false
22. true
23. false
24. false
No, but they can't hold a postion for the whole game, they just slow the enemy down.
2. Turrets make great base defense.
Turrets act as a buffer zone to stop a lone stulk chewing up ya IP's and give your marines a breather.
3. Mines suck completely.
if used right mines rule, if used wrong they suck
4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.
mines can noe be used on floors as well.
5. Place mines only on floor in vents.
not true, if a skulk sees that red beam,odds are he'll stop and go back this mean that vent is pretty much usless to aliens till one of them is willing to die to take the mine out.
6. Place mines only near structures.
mine what needs mines
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
i don't think so, never noticed any damage
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway.
it takes some good timing/aiming to land a jump on an Obs when under fire <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.
when they are at your heels, i guess
9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.
no
10. Full-auto on skulks.
if you can "track" them with your
gun, yes, if not as Hicks said "short controled busts"
11. Burst fire on skulks.
see above
12. Charge them fades!
fades don't wanna die, and are kinda tough guys, so if they fall back they are hurt, so go get em... it's you or them at that moment. don't let them get to those DC!!
13. They've got fades, run!
no, run in teams, with Lv2-3 weapons
14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
cara'd skulks are pretty good and with enough sacrifice a skulk team can over run a location with good(no, GREAT) team-work
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.
a LMG Lv3 is capable of going toe 2 toe with a fade, if the marine has some skills
15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.
hmmm...depends...
16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)
see above
17. Get second hive before anything else.
the second hive is needed badly for aliens, it the whole point of the game
18. Get DCx3 before second hive.
as a gog, i tend to move into a hive, secure it totally b4 building the hive, no point spending 80 res on a hive only to have a marine walk in, kill you and kill your nice hive <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)
it gives marines an amazing edge, so this is true, all the HMG's in the world won't save you if that fade has the drop on you.
20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)
bull
21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.
one gorge CANNOT cover enough ground fast enough, so one gorge gets up a 2nd res node then someone else gorges to get res nodes and such while the 1st gorge sets up a hive
22. No second gorge until second hive.
80 res is alot to get with one gorge working to get res nodes and DC's, and if he dies...
23. Always second gorge after second hive.
not always, depends on the situation and how the marines are doing
24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.
not true...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Turrets suck completely.
2. Turrets make great base defense.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->turrets are fine delay mechanism, they can aliens occupied for some time but not for long if they use the right tactics, also together with marines they make excellent defenses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->12. Charge them fades!
13. They've got fades, run!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if the fade runs then run after it - because if you let it run, it'll just come back in 2-3minutes fully healed, and if you run you've just given up beforehand.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.
16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's just 2 different tactics, use what you find best.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)
20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->personally i find motion tracking helpfull, and it makes it easier for me to defend areas - and to survive attacking - it's not worthless but i would'nt rush for it either.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.
22. No second gorge until second hive.
23. Always second gorge after second hive.
24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->depends on how many nodes you have - and sometimes a player who goes gorge for a moment just to build a node can be okay once in a while. - especially before the 2nd hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.
9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i crouch when defending an area so i get a better angle, but if it's close circlestrafing could work(never used it) - but don't go near a skulk just to circle strafe - because if you keep your distance it can't hit you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->. Mines suck completely.
4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.
5. Place mines only on floor in vents.
6. Place mines only near structures.
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> mines can be a good rushstopper - since the aliens just runs against you and BOOM! - but it doesn't stop the aliens when they get fades, and they co-operate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10. Full-auto on skulks.
11. Burst fire on skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->again just a personal issue - use what yu find best.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->you <i>don't</i> win by giving up, personally im tired people who just gives up BECAUSE THEY GOT T3H FADES AARRRGGHHH /me runs around in circles, waving my arms all over the place, screaming OMG H/-\xx0rz <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i don't think so, never noticed any damage
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do damage buildings. Once i lost an observatory when there was 5 mines around it
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
i don't think so, never noticed any damage
They do damage buildings. Once i lost an observatory when there was 5 mines around it<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Test this out again. As many times as I've attempted to test it, simply detonating mines in normal or tournament mode has failed to damage any structures I've had. Now, if it was an acid rocket that detonated them, we sure it didn't finish off the obs instead? Same as a skulk bite.
I'll do more testing, but I am very sure that mines don't do ff damage to structures. 100% sure for normal mode. Iffy on tourney mode.
There can be no answer to your questions.
Play, discover your own personal answers and be sure they will differ from someone elses.
Iam pretty sure that those mines destroyed that obs.
And few times when i have mined the base by putting mines around ip's. armory, arms lab (on the floor of course) and when a skulk detonates them all those buildings has lose one energy bar <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's quite a successful tactic I'd say, since you can focus on getting second hive up instead of having to listen to n00bs whining for regeneration and carapace.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Turrets suck completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The bad thing about Turrets is that they are quite easy to take out by experienced players unless there are lots (4+) of them placed at very good positions.
Personally I think they cost too much be be cost-effective, but one should keep in mind, that sentries do more work than just fiering at Aliens... Think of them as some kind of local alarm system. If there is an Alien, the Commander will hear "Sentry Fiering" and can send in troops if neccesary.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. Turrets make great base defense.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Turrets do not defend locations unless placed in masses and welded regulary.
But once again it come to the point of cost-efficiency... spending 200+ resources to lock down a location is a waste of resources in my oppinion.
Turrets can do some work, but they always need Marines nearby to defend a location correctly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. Mines suck completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The don't suck, they explode.
In early game mines can provide quite a nice base defence, but they are no replacement for a Marine guarding the Area.
After early game the mines lose a bit of its efficiency because of wither Marines having better weapons or Aliens having Fades remove the mines with Acidrockets.
Nevertheless some well placed mines can always make a little surprise e.g. for little skulks running through vents.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. Place mines only on floor in vents.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A mine that can bee seen (laser) is a mine that can be avoided... on the other hand, a mine that can be seen can be a mine that stops the enemy (skulks, lerks) or makes them use a different way.
A mine on the floor is more the "suprise suprise" mine that may get a few kills
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->6. Place mines only near structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mines near struktures can damage these structures so i don't place mines near structures.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can cycle strafe a skulk that means he's close to you!
If you do not want to die, you should try to kill him before he can even get close to you.
Since crouching does not affect your accuracy/recoil (remember, there's no recoil in NS (yet ?)) crouching just makes you a smaller target... but if the skulk manages to get close to you, this fact raraly matters.
If I'm in a hiding spot and open Fire on a skulk I'm normaly crouched trying to avoid being detected, but if I see the Skulk and the Skulk sees me I refer not to crouch but be more mobile.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->10. Full-auto on skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->11. Burst fire on skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personal preference and situational
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->12. Charge them fades!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depending on the situation... your upgrade, the aliens' upgrades, wether you are winning or already turtling in your base.
If a fade retreats in midgame (they just got fades) it's a good idea to chace down retreating fades... In late game (if the Aliens are winning) it's just an act of dispair... for every Fade you mowe down two Fades will be in your base a fews seconds later...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->13. They've got fades, run!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Go back to CS, coward"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
see above
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Defending res nodes with Marines decreases your menpower=firepower at places it is needed.
Defending res nodes with turret farms takes a lot of resources so it takes a long time before the res node is really PRODUCING resources rather than just "REPAYING" the resources that were needed to protect it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->17. Get second hive before anything else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is ONE strategie, but there are LOTS of straegies.
NEVER EVER focus on one special tactic please.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->18. Get DCx3 before second hive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not going to start that old **** flame-war again, so just a few words:
DCs first are most common and considered the most effective build order at the moment. There are other tactics (sensory first in order to prevent marines from leaving their base for example) that DO WORK, but need some experience, good teamwork and the right situation.
Again: Try to keep an open mind about different tactics please (one of the nice things when playing in a clan is that you can try other tactics without staight-minded players insulting you).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"You don't want an observatory ?? Ok, I can recycle it if you wish... by the way: I hope you like long foot marches, because we won't get any phase gates! oh, and I hope you like being owned by Skulks because we are not going to get any upgrades! So stop flaming and build that **** observatory that's an order!" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->22. No second gorge until second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->23. Always second gorge after second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very situational. on large maps 2 gorges can be very usefull.
The problem with 2 or more gorges in early game is not that they get resources slower (playing with 2 gorges in early game can get the second hive up in almost the same time as if playing with one gorge !), but that you have 1 Skulk less to keep the Marines at bay.
In games with 8-on-8 or larger 2 gorges shoud not be a problem and can get your team quite some advatage if they work together correctly.
Final Note:
In NS there is no NEVER and no ALWAYS when it comes to tactics!
It's very very situational!
Every tactic, building, upgrade, weapon and so on has it's advantages and disadvantages.
You just have to learn them and try to find situations where you can use the advantages and keep the disadvantages to a minimum
-= Just my 2 cents
Hypergrip
How does gorge spit work? Can gorges get kills from mines or is gorge-spit-detting-mines a side effect?
[edit]I left out the important bit. If a fade dets the mine, since it becomes his weapon, it WILL damage structures as far as I know. However, if something triggers the mine with its body, it will NOT damage structures (that would be pointless. You'd annihilate what you were trying to protect, defeating the purpose of mining it)[/edit]
How does gorge spit work? Can gorges get kills from mines or is gorge-spit-detting-mines a side effect?
[edit]I left out the important bit. If a fade dets the mine, since it becomes his weapon, it WILL damage structures as far as I know. However, if something triggers the mine with its body, it will NOT damage structures (that would be pointless. You'd annihilate what you were trying to protect, defeating the purpose of mining it)[/edit] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm.... that makes sense.
I think that when i lost that observatory, it might have been fade's fault <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. No, turrets can be useful to postpone phasegate destruction or combined with mines to stall skulks. NB: Turrets are useless if they arent regularly WELDED.
2.Marines make great base defense, turrets seem pricey for base defence as it isnt that important a local. Use a phasegate & 1 guard on alert with nearby marines at other phases. Mines + 1 marine is a damn fine defence early game, turrets are only useful for proper defence in very large numbers. (Basically no)
3. Only against Gorges, Fades Or 3 Hive Fades.
4. Easily bypassed or broken past, so basically no.
5. Not just in vents, but useful for stopping 1 or 2 skulks form using the vent (assuming 0 carapace & average reactions and the mining was unexpected.).
6.Though it is true that mines damage structures the damage is minimal. If the structures are compacted against a wall then mining around the structures is perfectly acceptable. Mining the structure allegedly detones all surrounding mines upon detonation (not tested) it is a very useful place for mines as a last resort. Common on pubs.
7.a & b see 6, NB: if the buildings are compacted against a wall correctly so that only the top is accessable then the skulks will most likely not hit the building due to the wallclimbing higher aim bug. They have to coruch to counter it, this is delicate business so the dead base guard can spawn in time, also it makes positioning a skulk to kill spawning marines almost impossible.
8. They best way to kill A skulk is with an lmg burst of up to 22 bullets close range. To kill multiple skulks, in open spaces the skulks shouldnt get near you, in closed spaces theres no room to circle strafe, side strafe the skulk and shoot it in the back.
9. Definately, but in a corner due to the wall climbing attack bug as mentioned in 7.
10. No a skulk takes 8-22 bullets to kill depending on the situation (assume no regen), Burst fire all the way accuracy is very important in ns. (Even with 3 attackers swish[swish with mouse <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->] bursts wil take them all).
11.See 10
12.No, AMBUSH them fades. Especially effective on pubs, 2 marines will kill a fade at medium range. So an LMG in the back results in near death with a pistol finish. Alternatively use a jp with any weapon and keep flying over the fades head so that it will be unable to track you with the jp counter acid rocket. Grenas vs umbra DUH.
13. If weapon lvl is less than 2 (the long barreled pistol) then fades are a challenge. ambush or pack against fades, if its even numbers reconsider!
14/15. 2 Hive with againt an uber comm = close game, vs weak comm/marines = kharaa win, with a non cooperative kharaa = marine win. Very res dependent.
With 1 Hive lerks are useful a gorge/lerk/skulk combo can take most static defences. It depends on marine upgrades and ultimately res. If the aliens have 3 Hives but 0 res theyll lose, if they have 3 hives AND moderate res its time to donce.
16. Aliens capping res nodes isnt a problem due to the res nodes high hp & hive sight, marines will try to distract aliens whilst capping res so as to be able to get in res and progress simultaneously so beware. If marines turret farm respoints rejoyce youll probably win. To get marine res nodes an early dc upgrade is most preferable making skulks much more effective (up to 150% hp bonus), though contrary to many "elite" views movement is viable, however DCs are just too useful on pubs to ignore, Mov usage is very specialist and theoretical. Res is a key focus for both teams, but dont let marines upgrade & hold 2 hives otherwise not even lerks will be of use as they have 2 hives and NO upg detriment.
17/18. ABSOLUTELY NOT, the chamber bonuses are significant indeed, many situations can be won with 1 hive beings, even a jetpack rush (only tested up to 3 man). Res is very important, cap come of these before getting the hive.
19/20. Motion Tracking is good for:
capping "risky" res nodes.
Guarding multiple res nodes at once preemptively.
More in depth comming
Motion Tracking costs you:
2 early res nodes
or
1 upgrade.
I am undecided on it, I feel MT is a midpoint, but Ill leave that to you.
21/22. 2 Gorges is feasible in many situations, the most common being a 2 DC rush (not recommended.) I personally prefer 2 gorges after 1 res point so that gorge 1 spams rts whilst gorge 2 spams dcs and helps out in the field (followed by hive capping).
23/24. Depends on the situation, if you have enough res and you want to will the maps with WOL yes. If you need combat gorges then by all means use up to 4!
[Please note Im not fully versed in gorge usage but I feel these answers are adequate]
Im not saying these answers are right but Im sure theyre better than firestorms <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> (j/k fire... ... ...) They seem ok to me, Im fairly open minded but I fair well on pubs and feel I am coming to grips with many concepts of the game, though I may not have expressed these right.
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1. Turrets suck completely.
2. Turrets make great base defense.
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Turret farms have the following properties:
They're very expensive if you want them to act as anything more than an annoyance. A basic turret farm can cost up to 100 res. Spending much less than this is pointless because your farm will do very little.
Unless you have an obscene amount of turrets, an unoccupied turret farm can be taken down by a single cara skulk who knows what he is doing, in 1 or 2 attempts. A turret farm with 5+ turrets, a phase and marines on watch however, is very difficult for 1-hive aliens to destroy. (But also incredibly expensive in both res and man-power)
Once aliens have 2-hive technology, turret farms even with multiple turrets, phase and basic marines on watch will be destroyed easily.
Turret farms require marines on-hand to guard them. But in the early game a marine team can defend a location by themselves without turrets anyway. Temporarily holding a location can be done at no res cost by a group of marines at the start of the game.
Holding a location permanently requires phase and turrets, or equipped marines (HA or JP). Equipped marines are more versatile than a turret farm, and have more chance against 2-hive technology, but take longer to produce due to upgrade times.
It is not necessary to hold a location permanently.
The marine base has a great deal of built-in defence (IPs/Distress beacon/Commander). When 1/2 marines are in the marine base during the early game, possibly with mines, the base can be considered impenetrable. The exception to the rule is on a public server with dozy marines who all build/get ammo with nobody watching the entrances. In this scenario, when the alien players are significantly better than the marines, aliens can win the game on an initial rush. This rush occurs before turrets can be placed, and is defendable simply by 2 marines with their guns trained on the entrances.
From that you can probably conclude what most NS players have concluded. Turrets in the marine spawn at the start of the game can be considered, without much argument, to be worthless. The reason for this is that the marines have a significant combat advantage prior to carapace, and are perfectly capable of defending the base by themselves at this stage of the game. In addition, you cannot have a turret farm up and running before the first skulk rush occurs anyway.
As for turrets in other locations on the map, there are strategies that make use of turret farms to secure hives, or important locations such as cargo bay. However in organised clanplay these strategies, and the uses of turrets in general, are considered to be an inefficient use of resources. And you will most likely not see a single turret in a clan match. In public play, it is possible to win games with these strategies, depending on the general skill of your team and the awareness of the opposing side, there may even be situations where these strategies are more effective than clan-style tactics that do not use sents, however it is certainly not necessary to use any turrets at all.
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3. Mines suck completely.
4. Place mines only on walls at all entrances.
5. Place mines only on floor in vents.
6. Place mines only near structures.
7a. Mines placed near structures damage the structures.
7b. Skulks can just jump on top of the structures anyway.
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Exploding mines can behave in 2 different ways. If triggered by an alien moving over them, or breaking the beam they will act as a weapon fired by a marine player. The alien will take full damage, and damage dealt to other marines or structures is subject to the same rules that apply to a grenade launcher. You can be hurt by your own mine when triggered by a skulk, but if playing on a pub server the mine will not damage other marines or buildings. The second explosion behaviour occurs when a mine is triggered by a fade's acid rocket/bile bomb. In this situation, the mine acts as a weapon fired by an alien player, meaning it will deal full damage to marines and marine structures. Kills from this mine are attributed to the fade that detonated them. This explains conflicting reports about damage against structures.
Like turrets, mines are not able to defend a location by themselves. If a skulk is aware of the mines, and there are no marines covering the location, the skulk can avoid the mines and kill buildings in the area. However, if the floor around the area is covered in mines, it becomes very difficult for a skulk to fight marines in the mine field. In this way the mines become a combat aid.
In addition, mines usually kill skulks that are not aware of them when placed on the floor. Attempting to block doorways with tripmines on the walls is not effective (Unless they are very narrow). The tripmines are obvious to attacking skulks, and to completely block a passageway usually requires 3-4 mines. Once one of these mines is destroyed the rest become useless, as all skulks pile through the gap created by the first. In addition, skulks do not have to be close to the mine in order to detonate it if your tripwire crosses a large gap or doorway, this allows a skulk to trigger a mine while taking minimal or no damage.
The usual way to make use of mines is to place them on the floor around structures where they are harder to spot. Creating a field of mines in an area where fighting will usually occur makes it much easier to defend against skulks. Mines can defend important buildings that skulks would like to chomp, like resources nodes, arms or proto labs. These mines may be harmful if the aliens get to fades, but it is generally accepted that once you have fades running through your base, the game is over anyway.
The primary advantage of mines is their cost. They provide a small, often helpful boost to defence for very little cost. This is in contrast to turrets which require a high investment in order for them to do anything at all.
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8. Best way to kill a skulk is to circle-strafe.
9. Best way to kill a skulk is to crouch.
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Milage may vary, fighting technique is quite a mysterious art, and there is very little anyone can tell you that will help you signficantly. But bear in mind this - There are no accuracy bonuses in NS for players who crouch/stand still. You can fire just as accurately while hopping around as you can crouched in a corner.
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10. Full-auto on skulks.
11. Burst fire on skulks.
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Again, the only help i can give you is facts surrounding the weapon behaviour. Firing cones in NS do not become larger as you hold the button down, an initial burst of shots has exactly the same accuracy as a weapon that has been firing for several seconds. Consequently, the only reason to ever burst is if you think it helps <b>you</b> aim better. There is no behaviour coded in that makes burst firing anymore accurate.
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12. Charge them fades!
13. They've got fades, run!
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If you are a basic marine, not carrying any weaponry, and you are not currently holding an essential location, your life holds little to no value. A fades life, is always quite valuable. As a lone marine versus a healthy carapaced fade, you are very unlikely to kill him, however you can deal significant damage. As a group of basic marines, you are capable of charging and killing a fade. Charging when alone is still quite a good idea, you will damage the fade, if he is injured you may possibly land a kill, if not you will probably force him off to heal, which is quite often worth it.
If you are carrying expensive gear, be very wary about charging down a fade. You need to account for how easily your gear can be retrieved if you die, and how important the kill is in relation to your death. Most talk regarding fighting fades is a little meaningless because usually at this point the game is pretty much over, but there is one situation where it may not be, and this concerns wether or not to charge fades: If the aliens have had 2 hives up for a short period of time, long enough for a couple of people to fade, and then you have managed to take out one of their hives with ninja-siege / JPs / whatever, then those remaining fades suddenly become worth much more to the alien team than they otherwise would be. In this scenario, there is almost no reason not to charge any fade you see, infact one of the few reasons i can think of to not charge a fade is if you don't want to scare him off, allowing you to prepare an ambush and have several people rush the fade instead :)
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14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.
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If the aliens hold a 2nd hive for a decent period of time, then there is very little the marines can do to get back into the game. At the 2 hive stage alien defence suddenly becomes much stronger, with webs going up around hives. And once fades and lerks are going, even fully teched marines have difficulty, although it is very rare to have full tech once fades arrive. Aliens are usually able to kill the marine base, or break any defences in the 3rd hive immediately after they go fade. 2 hive tech is a steamroller, once they have fades, there is little you can do to stop them from either killing your main, or rolling straight on to 3 hive and ONOS. Not much of a counter argument for this, everyone accepts it. If the aliens get a second hive, and you manage to destroy one of their hives shortly after, the game is still on. But usually, the defence from web the instant the 2nd hive goes up makes the typical JP attacks much harder.
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15. Take, but don't defend, every res node you come across.
16. Only take res nodes you can defend. (About 3 or 4 total.)
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Mileage may vary, differs with the strat. A couple of things to remember that you can draw your own conclusions from - A res node pays for itself in about 60 seconds. If attacked by a single skulk, can be immediately recycled and you will get half your res back from it before the skulk can kill it. If recycled, a res node only needs to be active half as long in order to justify the initial cost. An alien team that is constantly defending their hive has a hard time killing your undefended res nodes.
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17. Get second hive before anything else.
18. Get DCx3 before second hive.
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Gorge builds can differ, but few people would approve of saving for a second hive without placing DCs. Carapace is a very major, pretty much essential upgrade for aliens. And without it, defending your main hive or the in-production 2nd hive will be very difficult.
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19. Motion tracking is a high priority (sometimes the highest)
20. Motion tracking is completely worthless, and you suck for building an obs, comm! (or something like that)
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Personally, i believe motion tracking is overrated and expensive. I would prefer weapons or armour upgrades, but this is somewhat subjective, while there may be a most effective choice in an organised game with skilled players, this does not mean one or the other is necessarily the best option for a public server team. Some people may just be incapable of using their ears and benefit greatly from MT. Also be aware, depending on how you play, the obs is not an essential building, it is possible to go without it.
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21. No second gorge, even with 9+ on a side (which gives 2 res per node). Ever.
22. No second gorge until second hive.
23. Always second gorge after second hive.
24. Always second gorge if there are 9+ on a side.
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Multi-gorging requires gorges to be aware of what the other is doing or intending to do. It is feasable, especially on larger servers, the main benefit of it is that it allows you to produce more of the less-expensive buildings such as OTs, res nodes or DCs. The dissadvantage is that if a gorge is saving for a 2nd hive, another gorge will slow the production of the hive. You also lose a skulk. If the gorges understand what the other is doing, and the situation warrants a delayed hive in order to place down defenses (For example, against a JP tech) then a 2nd gorge can be viable. This is much harder to co-ordinate on a public server, thus leading to the 1-gorge-only standard. Admittedly, 1 gorge may be safer on a pub.
You looking for publishers for that novel, Teoh? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit]On actually reading it, it's a very good novel, though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->[/edit]
You looking for publishers for that novel, Teoh? :) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've written longer :\
*Currently at work*
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14a. Marines: They got second hive, we lose.
14b. Aliens: They took a hive, we lose.
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If the aliens hold a 2nd hive for a decent period of time, then there is very little the marines can do to get back into the game. At the 2 hive stage alien defence suddenly becomes much stronger, with webs going up around hives. And once fades and lerks are going, even fully teched marines have difficulty, although it is very rare to have full tech once fades arrive. Aliens are usually able to kill the marine base, or break any defences in the 3rd hive immediately after they go fade. 2 hive tech is a steamroller, once they have fades, there is little you can do to stop them from either killing your main, or rolling straight on to 3 hive and ONOS. Not much of a counter argument for this, everyone accepts it. If the aliens get a second hive, and you manage to destroy one of their hives shortly after, the game is still on. But usually, the defence from web the instant the 2nd hive goes up makes the typical JP attacks much harder.
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First off a couple of questions for TeoH.
1. Do you post from work ?
2. How the hell do you hide writing essays like the above from yor boss ? I need help with mine <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd agree with pretty much everything you said Teoh, apart from what i've quoted. What you've said is true if your going for the common JP/HMG rush which I know you subscribe to.
If your on a pub however and doing a 2-hive lockdown or a 1-hive and tech up, fades is definately not the end of the game. In fact with 1-hive and tech up, your <b>expecting</b> to fight fades.
In the current enviroment there fairly essentiall early in the game or marines will own you.