Fun With Fades

Inexorable · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">See this dead horse? I'm beating it!</div> Let me paint you a picture.... you're a commander and the game has just started. Your marines are skilled on average (mid to high end pub play), <i>usually</i> follow orders and are decent shots. Thing is, you can't depend on them to deny the Kharaa a 2 hive setup. That means Fades <b>will</b> hit the floor.. lots of them.

What do you do?

ZiGGY · March 2003

oooh oooh oooh heres a radical idea, why dont you try SHOOTING them AHAHAHAAH

Inexorable · March 2003

Cause you're the commander, and thus can't shoot anything.

To be more specific, the problem I've seen is that marines seem incapable of surviving once Fades hit, simply because you go from fighting X many Skulks, to suddenly X many Fades. Sure I can gang up on 1 Fade with my buddies, but if the Fades come in a group of comparable size, what do you do?

The most popular strat of course is the JP rush in which you simply deny the Kharaa more than one hive from the outset. Failing in that, what are your plans for the eventual mass of Fades?

KMO · March 2003

Initial tips:

1) Hope you haven't let them have too many resource towers; have a marine run around killing their res throughout the first stages of the game. At worst, this distracts them, but it will usually force them to pay out for defences, or lose them.
2) Do your best to make sure you have lvl2 weaps + lvl2 armour by the time the first fades come. I'd advise against lvl3 weaps + lvl1 armour, as I've seen some do, as without decent armour you don't live long enough in acid splashes to dole out significant damage.
3) Be aware when the sudden fade influx is coming and be prepared. It's all about timing. Get an HMG or two in advance at your key points. Maybe even a couple of HA.
4) Don't be relying on mines by this stage - have a few turrets at your key locations. It's all cumulative damage - don't let them just wander in unscathed.

There is liable to be a sudden fade rush as they all get 54. At least 1.04 bought you a bit more time.

Let the fades be bit over-confident; they won't have seen any heavy gear up to this point. Let them come into your area and start pummelling a turret. Then have the HMG guys come up behind them. Get them to do their darnedest to kill the fades and not let them run off.

If you can kill enough of the first fade influx you buy yourself a lot of time before they can get another 54 resources each. Next time they have a mass of fades, you will have better gear, including a GL or 2 to defeat umbra, and at least lvl3 weapons.

At this critical stage of the game, don't be too mean to hand out HMGs. Just try to persuade the HMG guys to defend and not run off, at least until you've got a squad strong enough to start attacking.

If an HMG guy or two dies defending, who cares? Someone else can pick up the HMG, as long as you or the dead marine can say where it was dropped. Whereas the resources in a dead fade are lost forever.
Indeed, if half or fewer of your marines have HMGs, then there are plenty of LMG marines ready to pick the guns up - not that many will be lost.

Also, remind the marines to weld each other. A light soldier with high armour upgrades will need welding after receiving 2 health packs, or he will be weak as a puppy.

That's the theory, at least, and it has worked for me.

taboofires · March 2003

lvl 3 weapons and lvl 1 armor are only good against skulks. If you are using a strategy that prevents the kharaa from getting 2 hives (or at least long enuf for them to fade), 3-1 works great. 2-2 is needed to survive acid spam.

The only ways you can hope for winning as a marine team is to simply prevent the kharaa from getting getting 2 hives (screw their economy, 2-hive lockdown, etc.) or kill the hives as fast as they go up (usually any kind of rush). If you see a fade, it's too late for #1, so you've got a few things you have to accomplish to still have a chance of winning.

1) Drop some hmgs or something. Your marines won't get far out of base without added firepower. HA also helps, if you can afford it. Recylce stuff you no longer need to help finance your assaults. Throwing vanilla marines at a fade only works right outside your base, otherwise the fade will run to regen too easily.
2) Prevent them from affording fades more than once. Kill their res towers, and ideally the gorge too, and the kharaa will have a horrible time getting back to 54 res again. Kill the fades once and life will calm down for a while. Failure means a constant swarm of fades, which keeps you in base, gives them 3 hives and the game.
3) Take out the hive asap. Leap and web are enough to make life challenging, so do this as soon as possible. It seems wise to first remove them of a few fades first, however, if you want to have both your spawn and your assault team survive the hive-kill. You have 1, maybe at best 2, shots at killing the hive before the kharaa have the map pretty locked down. Even if you can still get to the hive somehow (jps in vents) chances are you can't afford the hardware on your measly base res.

severijn · March 2003

I'd say you best order your marines to attack an outpost near a RT and meanwhile sending a few marines to go near an enemy hive and built a TF, PG and Siege.
There is a great possibility the kharaa will not notice them.
Another tactic: Create a diversion and send a death squad of jp + hmg toward an enemy hive(that is most likely poor or not defended) to built a PG to let a backup strike force trough.

If both fail, cross your fingers and pray...

MeltedSnowman · March 2003

Usually the hive that the alien team is attempting to build as their second hive will be heavily defended, but their primary won't have any chambers in it save some DCs in rare instances. It'd be much easier to send a squad to attack their first hive than try and deny them the one coming online.

In an ideal situation you may be able to control three RTs. If you forego motion tracking (*gasp*) you should be able to research and outfit a small group of HA/HMG marines. (2-3 maybe, though if you have the time to wait for a couple ticks give one a GL instead of an HMG). If you've fielded some relatively skilled marines, and gotten the right equipment in the right hands, you MAY be able to assault the first hive successfully. It'd help exponentially if there were LMG escorts going with the HA team. The likelyhood that you can pull it off though, sadly, is fairly low due to the number of co-operative marines you'd need.

Kenichi · March 2003

if i was a marine commander the aliens would never have had hive 2. Nuf said.

Inexorable · March 2003

Good stuff. I've been toying with the idea of 2/2 upgrades as a possible counter. HA is just too damned expensive to be an option. And bypassing MT might be a decent idea.

I'm gonna have to go check to see if you can bypass the Obs entirely and go straight for Arms Lab. That first armor upgrade may very well counteract not having MT right off the bat.

I also want to bring up the point that I've found Shotguns work nicely. Though it seems to be simply because they don't expect it. Not many people go rushing up to the Fade, so you can usually catch a few off guard and get close enough to kill one before being taken down. Especially useful on maps like Eclipse or Tanith where any assault Fades have to come around a corner or through a door, which a marine can easily hide behind.

ZERG · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Inexorable @ Mar 14 2003, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Let me paint you a picture.... you're a commander and the game has just started. Your marines are skilled on average (mid to high end pub play), <i>usually</i> follow orders and are decent shots. Thing is, you can't depend on them to deny the Kharaa a 2 hive setup. That means Fades <b>will</b> hit the floor.. lots of them.

What do you do?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

If the game is assumed to be in the 14-18 player range, what I would do in the above situation is secure whatever RTs I can and turret farm the more key locations like choke points (South Loop, Generator, Freight Access, etc.). The base will also be turret farmed since it has a lot of expensive tech tree structures like the armslab and protolab. At the same time, I will secure one hive if I have not already done so. The hive will also be turret farmed more than usual and if RP permits, a second TF will go up.

The point now is to hold off any alien assault with a wicked combination of level 3/2 marines and level 3 turrets. While successfully thwarting off any alien threat, I have JP/GL marines doing "bombing runs" on aliens RTs and order them to run if they meet with any opposition since their purpose is to <i>only</i> kill alien structures and really hit their resources. If my marines fail to run and die, I only appoint one reliable player with this task or give a set to one reliable player and one to a random rambo. Chances are the rambo will cause such a ruckus with his GL that the other can demolish in relative peace.

While taking out RTs, I secure the ones that that have been taken and turret farm it with about 5 turrets to discourage the gorge from approaching. The gorge would have to instruct his teammates to clear it, which would give more time for your bomber to destroy more structures.

While everything of the <i>above</i> is happening, I tech to HA. When RPs permit, I'll freely spam HA/HMG or HMG/GL and instruct them to "go on a rampage." The ratio of HMG to GL should be roughly 1 GL for every 2 HMG . And I always give specific orders to HA grenaders to stick to a squad.

This kind of battle plan takes a lot of time investment, but it is the best way for me to go when fades are right around the corner. It also requires less of your marines, so you don't need one those uber-godly-marines that can win the game all by himself because he's <b>that</b> good. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

ekent · March 2003

Pub marines are gradually getting better instincts as to what they should do at any one time. The problem I used to have a lot (if they could aim) was that I had to babysit them all the time and tell them where to stand when guarding a room, where the skulks were coming from, what areas of the map to go to if you're instructed to rambo, etc. These are not things that the comm should be worried about and they totally slowed down our progress. Recently though I've been noticing more and more the marines will start spreading out early to occupy key map locations, like cargo and chemical on tanith, or refinery on bast or whatever.

If you have this, as a commander, that is, if you have marines going off to do things like knifing resource towers, gorge hunting or pressuring the hive even without orders, then you obviously are off on a good foot.

As far as killing fades goes, it totally depends on what you have when the fades arrive. If you have level 1 weapons, motion tracking, 1 hive mini-base and 2 resource towers you might be in trouble. If you have level 3 weapons, jetpacks, 3 resource towers and heavy weapons you can probably take out a hive if you act quickly. It all depends on the situation <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Church · March 2003

Turret farms cannot survive fades. Fades are also more manueverable than your marines. You cannot defend all your outposts and key chokepoints. If you turret farm, you will not have res to upgrade. If you somehow do win by turret farming chokepoint and a hive against GOOD aliens (preferably with clannies or better one, one whole clan), you are godly at NS, and I beg you to show me a demo.

Commander_Kittens · March 2003

I was commanding last night, and the funniest thing ever was there was this guy, and through the entire game he would cry for mines. I mean every time he used up the 5 he had, he would ask for more and wouldn't leave untill he got more.... repeat. So I went "FINE have some mines" and dropped him a couple packs after I saw a fade walk past an RT. he went out and carpeted the area and just as he asked for more mines, the fade blew him to hell. He tried to leave the base 5 times to go do whatever and a group of fades blew him away every time he moved...

That was funny, but I guess the morale of the story is MINES DON'T WORK ON FADES! So a quaintly mined base could become a deathtrap once the fades DO come, ergo I suggest only a few mines.

MedHead · March 2003

Focus on one Fade at a time. Hope that they don't have the resources to make more. While the aliens are regrouping, push forward and attack their upgrade structures, or if possible, their hive. May be best to seperate the team into groups: one to attack the structures, one to go for the hive, and one to stay at the base and guard any stragglers.

Omega1 · March 2003

Me and some of my comrades have found that fades go down quite easily, even in contained areas, if you have a few upgrades and jetpacks. Even with just a LMG and level 2 weaponry, you can still take one out if you have the ability to manuever decentley with a JP. I know that with some of our regular comms, we focus on upgrading and capturing a key hive (i.e. ventilation hive, Computer Core) because it spaces them (the kharaa) out for awhile, while you snag Resource towers and defend locations while you build up your upgrades.

Personally, If I get a Jetpack, Shotgun with level 2 or more weapons, and a pistol, I can probably take out 3-4 fades if I'm lucky, before I die (With some healthpack support from mr. commander, of course <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>). It all depends on the upgrades when you combat fades. If your not working on upgrades before you know they have a second hive going up, then you ARE screwed, unless you've gone and done something druel and unusual like built seige spots outside of the hives <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

ZERG · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Turret farms cannot survive fades. Fades are also more manueverable than your marines. You cannot defend all your outposts and key chokepoints. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

That's why I said combination of marines <i>and</i> turrets, either by themselves is just fodder. A lot of your RTs will go down uncontested and thus causing you to lose the game. The turrets are there for added fire power and give enough time for reinforcements arrive if no marines were present to begin with. And I don't exactly understand what I mean by not being able to defend it all. It's a lot easier than you think.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you turret farm, you will not have res to upgrade.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

See, the upgrades work like this: during your early game, that's when you upgrade. Bypass the Obs, that's more or less useless. I get level 1 armor, 2 minutes into the game, if not less. The build is simple enough, its actually sorta part of JP rushing: IP > ARMORY > ARMLAB > LEVEL 1 ARMOR. But of course, the above scenario didn't call for me to elaborate on how I would play it out earlier other than the aliens do get a second hive.

But don't mistake me for just putting down 200 RP outright for a turret farm. 10 turrets and 2 TFs may sound like a lot RP, but it grows over the course of the game. I may start with 4 turrets and TF at 1 minute into the game to secure one hive with marines. Later, as I get more nodes I will maybe put down 1 more turret every minute or so. I would end up with maybe 15 turrets? Sure costs a lot, but you would have to calculate that cost <i>over</i> the duration of the game. It's like a monthly payment! Sure, you're paying 50,000 for that new SUV, but that doesn't mean you're rich! You're just paying $100 a month over 30 years! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you somehow do win by turret farming chokepoint and a hive against GOOD aliens (preferably with clannies or better one, one whole clan), you are godly at NS, and I beg you to show me a demo. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I <i>am</i> trying to get a good clean demo. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Me and some of my comrades have found that fades go down quite easily, even in contained areas, if you have a few upgrades and jetpacks. Even with just a LMG and level 2 weaponry, you can still take one out if you have the ability to manuever decentley with a JP. I know that with some of our regular comms, we focus on upgrading and capturing a key hive (i.e. ventilation hive, Computer Core) because it spaces them (the kharaa) out for awhile, while you snag Resource towers and defend locations while you build up your upgrades.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Not against redemption Fades. If you just rush him with not nearly enough fire power to take him down, he'll simply be redeemed because you're not damaging him fast enough before the redemption kicks in.

Church · March 2003

Zerg, my point is that marines cannot defend multiple outposts at once. Because you simply cannot put turrets at ALL of them. Your res towers will probably be chomped faster thanyou can replace them (unless you're only guarding like 2 or 3) and the aliens will just out RES you. That is the point. Because turrets cost so much, the aliens will just outres you. They can play a game of attrition and come out on top. Marines are just not MOBILE enough to defend nodes like aliens can, and don't even MENTION PGs. And don't tell me you turret farm evey RT.

Inexorable · March 2003

Zerg, the Kharaa need to earn about 550 RP in order to get a second hive with full upgrades and a complete complement of Fades.

It takes about 550 RP for marines to get 2/2 upgrades, a handful of HMGs and JPs.

Exactly where in this equation do you have the extra RP to turret farm everything you can get your hands on?

V_MAN · March 2003

Flushing a fade into an ambush works very well, the majority of fades will hit and run ie they attack something (your base siege base etc) take damage then heal. If you attack a fade with 1-2 marines the fade will normaly back pedal spamming acid or move in to swipe.

If the fade back pedals you can chase the fade back to it's point where it heals but along the fades route have a marine or 2 wating to jump him preferably with a shotgun atleast. If the fade doesn't back pedal when rushed he will most likley take some damage will return anyway to his healing spot and can still be ambushed.

To give an example on ns_tanith we held fusion reactor as marines while the aliens had sat and waste. There was a fade attacking cargo storage then retreating back to sat comms to heal up. So I sent 2 marines with shotguns via reactor room along the ven to chemical transport then when the fade attacked cargo one marine rushed the fade forcing him the back pedal into chemical and into the waiting marines with the shotguns. The damaged fade was cut to bits in 2 shots.

ZERG · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Zerg, my point is that marines cannot defend multiple outposts at once. Because you simply cannot put turrets at ALL of them. Your res towers will probably be chomped faster thanyou can replace them (unless you're only guarding like 2 or 3) and the aliens will just out RES you. That is the point. Because turrets cost so much, the aliens will just outres you. They can play a game of attrition and come out on top. Marines are just not MOBILE enough to defend nodes like aliens can, and don't even MENTION PGs. And don't tell me you turret farm evey RT. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Aliens can out res all they want. The thing is that they can't do anything with it. This is like comparing hive 1 aliens who have every RT on the map, but do not have a hive because both hives are lockdowned with a maginot line of turrets that can't be walked around. It means <i>squat</i>. The goal here is to get enough res towers and to <i>keep</i> them. You are saying that you can't defend them regardless, but this is simply not true. Set it up yourself. You're in a clan right? Have one location and turret farm it to the teeth (around 8 at least and more over time). Actually, you don't need to set it up! The proof is right there in the countless hour-long Alamos.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Zerg, the Kharaa need to earn about 550 RP in order to get a second hive with full upgrades and a complete complement of Fades.

It takes about 550 RP for marines to get 2/2 upgrades, a handful of HMGs and JPs.

Exactly where in this equation do you have the extra RP to turret farm everything you can get your hands on? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The res model is: (controlled nodes)x(.23)x(#marines)x(#aliens/#marines) per tick. So if you have 3 RTs (base, hive, and one other of your choice--hopefully a strategic location). I will assume 16 players.

(3) x (.23) x (8) x 8/8 = 5.52 per tick. So for every 5 seconds for 1 hour. That is 5.52 * 720 = 3974.4 RP. A game that has ran for 30 minutes is 5.52 * 360 = 1987.2.

So to have 2/2 you need 22 + 25 + 45 + 20*2 + 40*2 = 220 RP. And then lets add in the cost of 2 additonal RTs and a few medpacks:

220 + 44 + 10 = 274

Wow, not a huge difference. Maybe add in the cost of a proto lab and occaisonal JP/HMG (assuming 5 sets).

274 + 45 + 25 + 170 = 514

But lets say I decided to defend some locations. Some mines at base and turret/mines at a hive.

514 + 8*5 + 19*5 + 20 = 669

So now let's assume the hive went up say... 10 minutes into the game. That's 120 * 5.52 = 662.4. That is without the 100 starting RP so there you have it. I will leave it up to you to figure out where to allocate that money when and where so don't ask.

Inexorable · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>what I would do in the above situation is secure whatever RTs I can and turret farm the more key locations like choke points (South Loop, Generator, Freight Access, etc.). The base will also be turret farmed since it has a lot of expensive tech tree structures like the armslab and protolab. At the same time, I will secure one hive if I have not already done so. The hive will also be turret farmed more than usual and if RP permits, a second TF will go up.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Going to...
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>But lets say I decided to defend some locations. Some mines at base and turret/mines at a hive.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
A bit of a difference I think.

Just to keep things clear though, here's my math on the costs:
IPs: 22*2
Armory (advanced): 25+35
Arms Lab (2/2): 45+20*2+40*2
Prot Lab (JP): 50+25
Equipment: 25*5+9*5
Cost to this point: 514

That means the Kharaa are maybe 30 seconds away from getting a full team of Fades knocking on your front door. Hey, if you do this JP rush right they'll die anyway. But if you fail, or 1.1 comes out.....

Xenogearz · March 2003

HMG .. when you see your marine is chasing down a fade.. spam them with ammo and hp.. But ideally speaking you don't really want to let them have 2-3 Fade. .Unless you got HA/HMG going.. cuz when you got 2-3 Fades, even jp/hmg combo gets hard to pull off...

Church · March 2003

Bullsht they can't do anything about it! Their units are as good as your units, and they can AFFORD to take ehavier losses than you can because they have more res! Theyc an just immediately go fade again after they die, while you'll need to WAIT to suit up your guys again. So let me get this straight again, are you going to turret farm every res node? If you aren't, your nodes are going to be GONE.

Sifo25 · March 2003

I have seen Zerg's offered method in action, and it works. What pub marines (and apparently a lot of you vets) do not comprehend is the power of:

Level 3 Weapons (turrets in this case taking advantage of them)

(please, please, please let the bolding of this word register when you read it) <b>plus</b>

Marine Guards (who also, shockingly, take advantage of Level3 as well)

Add in welders, medpack spams, armor upgrades, and multiple marines chasing after Fades, and if those Fades dont have Redemption, those Fades are dead meat. Tech up, HMG/JP up, and take back a hive.

Its not impossible. I do not have a demo. But I have seen it done, and had it done to me as the Kharaa plenty of times. It is valid. Because youve never made it work does not mean it doesnt work.

Sifo

Editing to add: so the answer is, if the Fades are coming, and we arent anywhere close to snagging a hive, I go for Level 3 + Res Nozzles + Turrets ASAP. In that order.

Sifo25 · March 2003

Oh, and I just wanted to add.

I dont often brag about my "elite" hax0r skillz on this forum, hit my profile and read through all my posts (I dare you, heh), I really dont. But I will this time:

Secnario: last weekend, something like 9 vs 9, we have two hives, we took one down so the aliens have a handful of Fades. They own most of the res nozzles on the map, we lock down the two we have and the aliens hammer us non-stop with Lerk/Fade/Gorge rushes. We once had one Fade and I think it was three freaking gorges assaulting our base, and we damn near lost it.

Anyway, I beg the comm to get us level 2 and level 3 weapon upgrades. He eventually does, and, we kill off most of the threats except for one last bad **** Fade running around still (this is like 15 minutes after we locked down the hive we took, he was that good with Blink and Hit/Run).

So, with level 3 lmg, I'm running through ns_nothing (they started with Cargo btw) and I come around a corner. There's Mr. "elite" Fade (sorry I dont remember your name bro, you were good) standing fully healed (no sound of healing) in between two defense chambers. I unload from about 10 feet away, and move forward/strafe on Mr. "elite" Fade. I strafe around the DCs, around him, around his slashing, and then at the end of the clip, switch to Pistol. I unload all 10 rounds in him, and either my last round, or my next to last round dropped him.

Excellent marine aiming. LMG. Pistol. Level 3 weapons.

vs.

Fade with 2 DCs healing him, possibly carapace or regeneration (not redemption I would assume).

Now you know who will win that fight.

Sifo

Church · March 2003

Sure it works if the aliens can't RE-fade. But that's a two-hive lockdown, which is different. I'd turret farm in two hive lockdowns as well.

KMO · March 2003

Yes, but that's not the point he was making. The point was that light marines can kill fades with decent upgrades. In a situation where the aliens have 2 hives you have to start making them hurt. Get upgraded basic marines (maybe some with shotguns if they like them) together with whatever heavy armour and/or weapons you can afford to kill as many fades as you can, while knocking at their resource towers. Eventually you should be able to defeat them with pure economics. They will not be able to afford as many fades, so you will be under less pressure and will be able to secure more resources, so you will be able to defeat the diminished number of fades even more easily, and thus start pushing them down a long slippery slope. The increased cost of a fade in 1.04 makes this more realistic. Of course, more often than not the slippery slope goes in the other direction...

By my calculations, an 8-player alien team with 5 resource towers could afford 1 new fade every 30 seconds or so (assuming all they ever bought was fades+upgrades, and no buildings). That may sound a lot, but it's slightly more reassuring to think that each player can only go fade once every 4 minutes, longer if the gorge is building, or if they're taking upgrades and dying as skulk.

It is your job to cut down their res flow, and to force them to spend money on static defences instead of fades, while at the same time trying to make sure that a fades life-span is under 4 minutes. It may be wiser to spend some time taking out their resources and securing more of your own before going for the all-out assault on one of their hives. I've not really seen this done effectively as marine, but I have as alien, where we've been pushed down to 2 or 3 res towers, almost rendering our 2-hive status almost irrelevant.

Church · March 2003

My argument is that the aliens are muhc, MUCh better at out-economizing the marines than vice versa. They are more MOBILE, and that is why they can destroy our RTs better than we can destroy theirs. Usually its's the aliens that start destroying the marine RTs, making it so HA and heavy weapons appear less and less, so the aliens are pressured less. I'm saying it's a LOT easier for the aliens to do what you're suggesting than it is for the marines. The aliens have huge advantages at hive 2. and rather than RISK not being able to pressure them enough, as of 1.04 I'd rather kill them before they get hive 2.

Inexorable · March 2003

Sifo, nobody wants to say that 3/3 marines with turret backup and medpack spam can't fend off Fades. What I'm saying is that you can't afford to do that by the time Fades get into play. Take your pick... Turrets with 0/0 marine backup, or 3/3 marines. There's just no way to have both by the time you'll be seeing Fades.

Shockeh · March 2003

You can landmine Fades, but it requires you to be a lot more inventive, and ensure that there won't be too much acid chucked near them.

A perfect place for this is Maintenance corridor. Drop a pack of mines on the floor there, and it'll see one off at least, if you're lucky kill it. And for the princely sum of 8 rez to you sir!

Venmoch · March 2003

The trick is all in the ambush. If you can get a fade to run have some guy near it with a heavy weapon. HMG/Shotgun (Yes I said shotgun, these really aren't dropped enough to be useful.

The only other way to do it is focus your fire and run after the dang thing. Thats how I do it. Of course upgades help a lot. But really the way to do it is to make sure you kill them and then stop them from coming back. (Res etc)

HA is also good as long as the HA's know what the heck they're meant to do. (Weld...)

And if none of this happens hope to god that your marines are reasonably competant.

[Boast]I got 5 fades yesterday with my LMG! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> [/boast]

Fun With Fades

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