Cargo Turret Farms

Ashkajioni · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">So annoying, we had the entire map</div> ... accept the final hive cargo.. (22 player server)
All they did was turret/siege spam. And any time we managed to take out the sieges they had 4 more built in an instant. We lacked onos/bile/lurk-gas. So pushing back 8 HVYs fully upped with HMG's constantly welding was near impossible. Even with umbra carapace and defence cambers. They bunched there entire base into a small hallway to the left (if your facing the hive spot). They had atleast 15 turrets and 4 sieges..
Normaly i would call this up to a unexperienced team for being unable to harrass them to death. But i knew most of the people , and they're no noobs. We tryed umbra rushing with gorges webbing. We tryed fadeing and blinking in the center and taking out the TF. That failed as well. Then we decided to take out there resources , that worked , but it only slowed them down, they just rebuilt(remember , we cant build near there base at all , siege spam). We had more resources then we could spend.. it was totaly crazy...
Anyways, onto why i posted this.

Anyone have a strategy to counter turrent farming+tech.

ElectroKiwiMonkey · March 2003

I would try having a few Kharaa players go gorge and all rush the marine setup at the same time, with the objective being to drop offense chambers beside the siege cannons. If it works you'll take out the cannon and someone else can start building.

Or, if as you said you truly had the entire map, just keep Fading with Umbra and Health Spray support, eventually the marines will run out of resources to build more turrets. Also, HMGs and HA cost one hell of a lot, so get a few Fades tossing Acid Rockets in and you'll soon be costing the marines a pretty penny.

Elric · March 2003

Yeah, you just have to be relentless and keep their rt's down and sacrifice everything to keep killing HA/turrets, IP's, guns, anything. Web marines and focus fire, use the movement chamber ability by getting everyone together near one, drop the hive, and have them warp when it's under attack in successive waves, anything to bring as much pain as possible in such a speed to wear out resources rebuilding anything they have to.

As for when they have 15 turrets, 4 sieges, and 8 ha....well, that's almost reaching a "too late" scenario. At that point, you'll just have to get some suicidal gorges to web the whole mess of them and bring down a couple before the fades have to retreat. Rinse and repeat. It isn't fullproof but of course, nothing should be vs that much resources/tech.

Ashkajioni · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ElectroKiwiMonkey @ Mar 19 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I would try having a few Kharaa players go gorge and all rush the marine setup at the same time, with the objective being to drop offense chambers beside the siege cannons. If it works you'll take out the cannon and someone else can start building.

Or, if as you said you truly had the entire map, just keep Fading with Umbra and Health Spray support, eventually the marines will run out of resources to build more turrets.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I was told the Chamber near siege , only worked with 1 hive. I suggested that myself lol. Ill know better next time.

As for fading and umbra/heal. The umbra dident seem to be working all to well
Fades we're dropping fast even with umbra and heal spray. Maybe HMG byass' it or somthing. They we're welding the heavys, i tryed to take out the welders but they always stayed behind the heavys , couldent get a shot in edge wise, even the fades acid rockets dident seem to get threw it..

the main problem was , they had an entire marine BASE in a small hallway. They had buildings ontop of buildings. All over. I dont think it would be easy to drop any chamber in there

Vahn_Paktu · March 2003

You could get everyone by a mov chamber and have a gorge run in through the vent and drop a hive. Then everyone jumps through the movment chamber into the hive. Hopefully the Marines won't know what hit them.

Roobubba · March 2003

At present relocation to cargo bay is the marine dream on ns_nothing, holding base and cargo is a bonus.
I've found the best way to win that map if your hive isn't cargo is to make absolutely sure from the very outset of the game to rush cargo and hold it. With the three res towers very close to each other, if the marines have it, they will tech up to HA/HMG before you get a chance to get fades + movement chambers, at the same time they'll be getting level 3 weapons.
The key is to starve marine res first off, while making sure they don't get cargo bay.

Of course if you hold cargo, you've got to ensure they can't take down your other hive, because frankly at present on ns_nothing, marine res is more important than marine hives because there are SO many res points easily held together that even 2 hive aliens don't stand a chance, and one hive aliens are completely and utterly ***ked

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

In short, get there earlier. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Paq · March 2003

One good way to counter that would be a smaller server.
We all know that marines totally pwn in big servers. If there is more than 20 players aliens are skrewed. I have seen few alien victorys on big server, but that was because marines had a noob com or their team sucked. If server has under 12 players, aliens wins almost every game. IMO 16 player server is pretty well balanced.

Ashkajioni · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Paq @ Mar 20 2003, 10:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One good way to counter that would be a smaller server.
We all know that marines totally pwn in big servers. If there is more than 20 players aliens are skrewed. I have seen few alien victorys on big server, but that was because marines had a noob com or their team sucked. If server has under 12 players, aliens wins almost every game. IMO 16 player server is pretty well balanced.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yea that dident help. Thats probably why

masterswordman · March 2003

<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway. </span></span>

Meaning, even their master plan, would just be nuked. I don't know what to tell you thou, they had it pretty locked up.

ZiGGY · March 2003

Abuse the lack of res set up a dc farm just past comm hub 063 and just run in acid spam run out, they will not have enough res to replace the turrets.

Immacolata · March 2003

Actually lerks are better for that arent they? Can deliver much more damage over time to buildings with spikes than fades can with acid rockets. They do 35 damage a pop on bulidings, where a lerk spike does 18 per hit. A lerk can unload a lot of spikes before stamina runs out if you got adrenaline trait. Keep a fade next to you, spew umbra and let the fade deal with the marines while you deal with the turrets. For super duper fun keep a gorge with adrenaline behind you, he can spam healing. The umbra will take a lot of the damage, perhaps enough for you to get a turret, then retreat.

Black_Ops_Lerk_Master · March 2003

Beautiful idea!

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

fades splash damage works well, especially so since the corridor was small (from his description)

ZiGGY · March 2003

I thought acid was double dmg vs buildings? regardless its the splash damage you want to kill the welder guys and anything in a very large radius. 1 or 2 lerks are expected but in a farm of severe magnitude may be owned by constant gren spam.

Noble_Fade · March 2003

I was in the same situation once, the last marine base was in cargo, and they have turtled themselves in very well. There was just nothing we could do, there were 3 marines spamming grenades at the narrow entrances, and siege guns taking out any chambers we tried to put up near it.
It was just so disgusting I left, just because the marines took one god damned room, instantly denied the aliens 1/3 of their tech, while marines can tech up to full. There's no way you can beat that kind of turtling/grenade spamming ****, and it's not worth it.

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

acid does NOT do double damage. bile does. but 50 splash is still a very very good thing, especially when your hitting marines AND structures. 5 fades spamming acid would quickly destroy all their turrets.

sushibug · March 2003

i've been in this situation a lot since i play only on a 24 player server. basically you just take out all the RTs you can and keep spamming them with acid rockets. eventually they die and cant get more HA. then u blink in there and swipe like crazy. your comrades will get brave and do the same.

Church · March 2003

I blame this situation on crappy marines. I they managed to get all those HA and upgrades and big turret/seige farms, they should've been able to fly to redroom (earlier on), clear it out with health spam from comm, and then set up seige there to destroy viaduct. What can I say...ns_nothing is a marine map, just like how I think ns_nancy is an alien map.

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

i tot ns_nothing was a "whoevergetscargowinsunlesstheirnoob" map?

Raiden333 · March 2003

Nearly same thing happened to me once, but it was on Hera and they had Processing. We had a team of 2 gorges and the rest were lerks with 1 or 2 skulks, and we kept them from expanding. They couldn't leave, we couldn't enter. Eventually, I had the bright idea to go into maintanence and fly into the vent to snipe the TF. That got them down to the point where we had JUST enough time to plop down a 2nd hive, and we barely won... By the end of that game, the aliens had 400 combined frags... Funny, really.

DrD-Death · March 2003

I would say the easiest way to break the marines would be to get a gorge in a start building the hive in Cargo, that will distract all the turrets as it seems as though buildings are their first priority so you can get in and not have to worry about turrets getting you for a bit and kill the tf while building chambers right next to them.
On another note on the same map if the marines hole themselves up in red room with siege cannons it's the same situation except fades and gorges can't get into red room. Makes for a very long game.

deaths_hand · March 2003

15 turrets and 4 seiges will kill a newly built hive in how many seconds? id guesss about 5

Bogglesteinsky · March 2003

point 1:

the hive takes priority over the aliens ie - turrets will target it first

point 2:

already been mentioned but get your team by a movement chamber, stick the hive up and teleport in.

if you had as much res as you said you did, you could probably keep "spamming" hives to get your team constantly in there.

but still, just wait for 1.1 - onos at 1st hive (although, it will be rather weak - probably best to get carapce in that situation - redemption wont have a chance to work and regeneration wont either...)

TheHornet · March 2003

i would just say that 6 lerks and 5 fades should of done the trick... i mean umbra goes a long ways... especcially when theres six of em... then spikes eat up turrets... and acid rockets would just help a bit.

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

anyone tell me where the list of changes in 1.1 can be found?

deaths_hand · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (z.x. bogglestiensky @ Mar 24 2003, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> point 1:

the hive takes priority over the aliens ie - turrets will target it first

point 2:

already been mentioned but get your team by a movement chamber, stick the hive up and teleport in.

if you had as much res as you said you did, you could probably keep "spamming" hives to get your team constantly in there.

but still, just wait for 1.1 - onos at 1st hive (although, it will be rather weak - probably best to get carapce in that situation - redemption wont have a chance to work and regeneration wont either...)  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
im not saying its impossible to just my point is you gonna have to be very lucky to get a gorge past 15 turets + 8? was it? hmg fully upgraded marines then how long would it take 15 turrets + 4 seiges and like 8 or more fuly upgrade marines to kill a newly built hive....beleive me unless you have uber timing it will be destroyed before you have any chance.

best chance would be like horney said, lerks with umbra spiking and acid spamming penguins should do the job, even if you only kill 1 marine thats still alot of fire power down along with the HA

Sifo25 · March 2003

Acid spamming is great, but the other day we had Fades acid spamming/lurks umbraing/me and another Fade with Celerity/Carapace running in and swiping up a marine base locked down with turrets and HA/HMG/grenaders.

You only get a few swipes, and you die a lot more than the acid spammers, but you finish off the weakened structures and marines much quicker than the artillery does.

It works rather well, marines had Cargo on Nothing and we eventually broke them this way after, eh, 20 or so minutes.

Sifo

Cargo Turret Farms

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