<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Mar 21 2003, 06:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Mar 21 2003, 06:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes. Now take that limit, and bind it to the screen framerate of a client. Say, one that runs at 100fps. One shot every two frames, assuming your calculation... 50 rounds per second. So, let off the full clip in one-fifth of a second, with the pistol scripts that are out there. It's been established that one exists. It's been established that it works. It's been established that it will no longer work in v1.1, so we can only hope that v1.1 will get here soon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a completely untrue conclusion. When I mean a "frame" I mean an animation frame, not a render frame.
Take for example, the Quake 1 server frame. From what I can remember in tinkering with "matrix mode", the Q1 server frame is at 30 frames a second. It is based upon the computer clock, where Quake can then proceed to make sure that "one second" in the Quake environment is "one second" in real life. You can play around with this variable (sv_hostframerate) and adjust it so that Quake believes that one second in Quake is actually 20 seconds in real life, allowing "matrix mode" where bullets, players, items, etc... all slow down to a bullet time effect. Or if you adjust it the other way, speed up Quake to the point where tapping forward will make you hit the wall on the other side of the map in a fraction of a second.
Likewise, the framerate of the animation is *fixed* at X frames per second, where I believe X is 24. This then depends on the engine's perception of time as outlined above, and thus giving you the firing rate. <i>The animation frames are independent of the framerate of the client.</i> If one person gets 5 frames a second and another gets 200 frames a second, they will both fire their weapons at the same time, because the internal frame clock for animation is the same. The difference is that the 5 frames a second player won't see certain frames become rendered, but they're there all right. Anyway, point is that the rate of fire is *not* affected by a client's framerate. Some aspects are though, such as jetpack refueling, but weapons are not. Therefore it is impossible to fire all 10 rounds in less than one second over the internet. If you don't believe me, make a pistol script yourself and see. I've made my own and it was largely a disappointment except in offline mode.
Actually, here's something you can do to see what the pistol RoF is capped at.
1) play with sv_hostframerate until you achive a 1/100th the speed of a normal game. 2) proceed to click furiously, and count the number of seconds it takes to empty the clip. 3) divide the number of seconds from step 3 by 100. 4) and that's your maximum rate of fire for the pistol in 1.04. No script can make it fire any faster than this.
Oops! The command is actually host_framerate. Default value is 0. To slow a game down, you type in
host_framerate 0.001, etc...
Again, default is 0. But to simulate normal gamespeed, I think it's
host_framerate 0.030
I'm not positive of that though. Eitherway, I just made a demo in "matrix mode" and by the look of it, the maximum rate of fire a pistol can achieve is the same as the full automatic rate of fire of a LMG. So however fast an LMG can empty 10 rounds is the same speed a pistol can empty 10 rounds.
I'd upload it, except it says it won't let me upload this type of file.
Can't you zip the .dem file? I never use the pistol as I simply lack the skills to fire at an effective speed. However, I will admit that I have been suspicious of the existence of pistol scripts. An (addmittedly uncarapaced) Fade being splattered in barely a second by a pistoler shouldn't happen... so I suppose I can understand the decision to cap it's fire rate.
<!--QuoteBegin--boberto+Mar 20 2003, 11:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (boberto @ Mar 20 2003, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you aim it at an alien... it proceeds to fire 10 shots without stopping, alien moves, only 2 of your shots connect, and youre left with an empty clip. not useful. ive never personally been killed by an actual pistol script, nor seen anyone killed by one... squeezing off 1 accurate shot at a time is much more devastating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It may not be useful againist skulks bouncing around you, but againist fades, the script is devastating. Since most fade players don't mind taking hits to get their acid rocket shots in, a pistol script can offload 200 points of damage into that fade almost instantly (depending on weapon upgrades.) That leaves a seriously wounded fade that can be killed with lmg fire.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (boberto @ Mar 20 2003, 11:24 PM) you aim it at an alien... it proceeds to fire 10 shots without stopping, alien moves, only 2 of your shots connect, and youre left with an empty clip. not useful. ive never personally been killed by an actual pistol script, nor seen anyone killed by one... squeezing off 1 accurate shot at a time is much more devastating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's lag compensation -_- and if you can't follow your crosshair with an alien, then you deserve to miss. I've unloaded all 10 bullets from a pistol into an alien before *manually* - before the alien could move in reaction. Time? Maybe around 1 second. Twitchy fingers rock.
my opinion about gun scripts is that I dont mind ppl using them, why?
I dont use them myself but i dont mind others using it, becuz u still have to aim, i mean, u could kill a skulk easier, but u could also waste ur first clip and get killed while reloading, this is totally different compared to r_drawviewmodel, and I dont understand why the dev finds this exlpoiting aswell, i mean, i could fire as fast as a script (well less fast, but still fast enough) if it was needed, its not like the script is giving you a very "elite" skill...
I lied again. Normal game speeds are at around host_framerate 0.015 or 0.016.
OK, there's no hope in getting this demo up. Apparently if you record in a low host_framerate setting, the file records at a rate inverse to the speed. Basically, the slower the gamespeed is, the more a demo file will capture. And you end up with a 4 meg demo file showing only 20 seconds of game footage and won't compress to fit the min requirement on the forum.
So you can do it yourself.
1) open console, type "sv_cheats 1", and then type "map ns_bast" 2) spawn as a marine 3) type "host_framerate 0.001" 4) type "record matrix" 5) take your lmg and fire it at the wall for 15 or so rounds. 6) take out your pistol and click fire as fast as possible until all 10 rounds are gone. 7) type "stopdemo" 8) type "playdemo matrix" 9) type "host_framerate 0" and type "playdemo matrix" again.
Take note that the max pistol rate of fire is a bit slower than the LMG.
i got and use a pistol script coz its not bannable... just lame <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
its set up so when i press fire it shoots and when i release it shoots gain, so it gives me double the firing rate. i use this for killing skulks and lerks popping in and out of vents to parasite or spikegun, it cuts em down fast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
It's been established that one exists. It's been established that it works. It's been established that it will no longer work in v1.1, so we can only hope that v1.1 will get here soon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a completely untrue conclusion. When I mean a "frame" I mean an animation frame, not a render frame.
Take for example, the Quake 1 server frame. From what I can remember in tinkering with "matrix mode", the Q1 server frame is at 30 frames a second. It is based upon the computer clock, where Quake can then proceed to make sure that "one second" in the Quake environment is "one second" in real life. You can play around with this variable (sv_hostframerate) and adjust it so that Quake believes that one second in Quake is actually 20 seconds in real life, allowing "matrix mode" where bullets, players, items, etc... all slow down to a bullet time effect. Or if you adjust it the other way, speed up Quake to the point where tapping forward will make you hit the wall on the other side of the map in a fraction of a second.
Likewise, the framerate of the animation is *fixed* at X frames per second, where I believe X is 24. This then depends on the engine's perception of time as outlined above, and thus giving you the firing rate. <i>The animation frames are independent of the framerate of the client.</i> If one person gets 5 frames a second and another gets 200 frames a second, they will both fire their weapons at the same time, because the internal frame clock for animation is the same. The difference is that the 5 frames a second player won't see certain frames become rendered, but they're there all right. Anyway, point is that the rate of fire is *not* affected by a client's framerate. Some aspects are though, such as jetpack refueling, but weapons are not. Therefore it is impossible to fire all 10 rounds in less than one second over the internet. If you don't believe me, make a pistol script yourself and see. I've made my own and it was largely a disappointment except in offline mode.
Actually, here's something you can do to see what the pistol RoF is capped at.
1) play with sv_hostframerate until you achive a 1/100th the speed of a normal game.
2) proceed to click furiously, and count the number of seconds it takes to empty the clip.
3) divide the number of seconds from step 3 by 100.
4) and that's your maximum rate of fire for the pistol in 1.04. No script can make it fire any faster than this.
host_framerate 0.001, etc...
Again, default is 0. But to simulate normal gamespeed, I think it's
host_framerate 0.030
I'm not positive of that though. Eitherway, I just made a demo in "matrix mode" and by the look of it, the maximum rate of fire a pistol can achieve is the same as the full automatic rate of fire of a LMG. So however fast an LMG can empty 10 rounds is the same speed a pistol can empty 10 rounds.
I'd upload it, except it says it won't let me upload this type of file.
I never use the pistol as I simply lack the skills to fire at an effective speed. However, I will admit that I have been suspicious of the existence of pistol scripts. An (addmittedly uncarapaced) Fade being splattered in barely a second by a pistoler shouldn't happen... so I suppose I can understand the decision to cap it's fire rate.
It may not be useful againist skulks bouncing around you, but againist fades, the script is devastating. Since most fade players don't mind taking hits to get their acid rocket shots in, a pistol script can offload 200 points of damage into that fade almost instantly (depending on weapon upgrades.) That leaves a seriously wounded fade that can be killed with lmg fire.
you aim it at an alien... it proceeds to fire 10 shots without stopping, alien moves, only 2 of your shots connect, and youre left with an empty clip. not useful. ive never personally been killed by an actual pistol script, nor seen anyone killed by one... squeezing off 1 accurate shot at a time is much more devastating.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there's lag compensation -_- and if you can't follow your crosshair with an alien, then you deserve to miss.
I've unloaded all 10 bullets from a pistol into an alien before *manually* - before the alien could move in reaction. Time? Maybe around 1 second. Twitchy fingers rock.
Person clicking fast = 'pop pop pop pop pop'
Pistol script = 'prrap'
I dont use them myself but i dont mind others using it, becuz u still have to aim, i mean, u could kill a skulk easier, but u could also waste ur first clip and get killed while reloading, this is totally different compared to r_drawviewmodel, and I dont understand why the dev finds this exlpoiting aswell, i mean, i could fire as fast as a script (well less fast, but still fast enough) if it was needed, its not like the script is giving you a very "elite" skill...
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
OK, there's no hope in getting this demo up. Apparently if you record in a low host_framerate setting, the file records at a rate inverse to the speed. Basically, the slower the gamespeed is, the more a demo file will capture. And you end up with a 4 meg demo file showing only 20 seconds of game footage and won't compress to fit the min requirement on the forum.
So you can do it yourself.
1) open console, type "sv_cheats 1", and then type "map ns_bast"
2) spawn as a marine
3) type "host_framerate 0.001"
4) type "record matrix"
5) take your lmg and fire it at the wall for 15 or so rounds.
6) take out your pistol and click fire as fast as possible until all 10 rounds are gone.
7) type "stopdemo"
8) type "playdemo matrix"
9) type "host_framerate 0" and type "playdemo matrix" again.
Take note that the max pistol rate of fire is a bit slower than the LMG.
its set up so when i press fire it shoots and when i release it shoots gain, so it gives me double the firing rate. i use this for killing skulks and lerks popping in and out of vents to parasite or spikegun, it cuts em down fast. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->