Serious Question About The Culture Of Ns Players
Uproar
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9152Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9152Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Mature audience only.</div> NS has a very strange culture. I may be reaching out to the wrong audience (NS players), but I would like to get some serious answers behind the psychology of those who play the game.
1. NS players are first above anything else critical of anyone playing or talking about the game. They have a strong belief of how the name should A. be played and B. How it should be. Any deviant behavior is at best frowned a upon. Ex. A. commander trying a new technique or one that is different from the norm. This is usually followed by ejection, even if that commander has won the last few rounds. B. Posting different ideas on the form. This can get some one yelled at, or even have the thread locked.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.
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On top of why the NS community is like this, I would also like to pose the questions:
How does this effect the growth of NS?
How will future versions of NS change or perpetuate this?
Will the ruling bodies of NS do anything to change or improve this mentally?
What underlining frustrations are the cause for these attitudes?
Please no flames, just intelligent conversation.
1. NS players are first above anything else critical of anyone playing or talking about the game. They have a strong belief of how the name should A. be played and B. How it should be. Any deviant behavior is at best frowned a upon. Ex. A. commander trying a new technique or one that is different from the norm. This is usually followed by ejection, even if that commander has won the last few rounds. B. Posting different ideas on the form. This can get some one yelled at, or even have the thread locked.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On top of why the NS community is like this, I would also like to pose the questions:
How does this effect the growth of NS?
How will future versions of NS change or perpetuate this?
Will the ruling bodies of NS do anything to change or improve this mentally?
What underlining frustrations are the cause for these attitudes?
Please no flames, just intelligent conversation.
Comments
1. The growth of NS will be decided on how many people who ask for it at Internet Cafes and how much it gets downloaded. Who knows? we could have a game that dethrones CS, but I doubt it. NS is too much of a teamwork game and most people want to be quote/unquote "the man". I call it ego and vanity.
2. Future versions of NS IMO will perpetuate this, as they tighten the screws on the balancing of the game which will require more than ever teamwork. Therefore you will have more people taking this game to the heart.
3. I highly doubt it, I think they love this level of competitiveness among players. It brings out the best and worst in people and there enjoying every minute of it.
4. As I described above.
By the way, about the last half phrase of '1.', topics get locked because they don't comply to the rules. No topic has up to today be locked because of personal dislike. Although a 'G1MM3 SN1P3R R1FL3' thread will get a somewhat more throughout inspection for rule violation than a well forumlated idea.
Or does it? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
The "I dont care" mentality and ever-increasing team work requirement among other things will eventually down NS. There are just too many variables...
Future versions of NS will change AND propetuate this behaviour, for better and worse; you hit "2." dead on, friend.
I suspect "3." will rear its ugly head soon... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
-edit- and "1." will always happen, since there is a optimal path, no matter what any game maker does.
1. NS players are first above anything else critical of anyone playing or talking about the game. They have a strong belief of how the name should A. be played and B. How it should be. Any deviant behavior is at best frowned a upon. Ex. A. commander trying a new technique or one that is different from the norm. This is usually followed by ejection, even if that commander has won the last few rounds. B. Posting different ideas on the form. This can get some one yelled at, or even have the thread locked.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On top of why the NS community is like this, I would also like to pose the questions:
How does this effect the growth of NS?
How will future versions of NS change or perpetuate this?
Will the ruling bodies of NS do anything to change or improve this mentally?
What underlining frustrations are the cause for these attitudes?
Please no flames, just intelligent conversation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.This i find, does represent some, but not the majority of Ns players. I for one, greet new tactics.
2. If a "n00b" asks stupid questions such as "how do i buy guns?" then it is obvious that he has never read the manual, and it is through his own fault that he is laughed apon.
3. There are two types of hostility i sometimes find in NS:
1/ Senseless hostility: shouting at the commander because he didnt give you a HMG.
2/sensible hostility (if there is such a thing) A marine, capping res nodes for the team isnt going to be happy if he has to continously ask for one to be placed when there is enough res. It is understandable that the commander cannot be in two places at once, but it is more important than medpack spamming in a remote area on the map.
This is only my opinion...
1) "The norm" is a fairly vague concept even in NS. I watched as a commander the other day on hera did the "unthinkable" and built a turret factory in cargo that was able to reach the marine spawn, holoroom and parts of processing. He went on to command us brilliantly to a victory. This was certainly differant to the standard "relocate to processing" game, but it worked. Personally I find that most people obey their commander fairly well; if he is blatently doing a bad job i.e. spamming mines when fades are seiging the spawn then he gets generally abused. However, the people I play with on the australian servers are fairly open to new ideas as marines. That said, as aliens def chamber first is the rule. Now this occurs because it works, in the same way in a dif mod like CS you don't try charging that awper head on with a knife (although it can be fun, in the same way sens first can be fun <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). The tactics that are seen today are really based around the constraints of the game itself; they're what has resulted after months of playing. Why have they resulted? They are the ones with the best chance of success.
1.b) This is because most of these ideas suck. We shoot them down because of that; when a great idea like "all aliens avaible at one hive" comes up, it gets strong support.
2) Intolerance? I admit some players get **** off when half the team gorges from the word go. However myself and many others calmly explain to new players how the system works, and most are willing to listen. I've had a newbie com a few times and, thanks to the alien team sucking, we won <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> but this is a role that the average new player should stay out of. It's just too advanced and stressful. Once someone has played for a while, seen how the game works ect then they can try their hand at commanding. I'd lke to see which other mod is more friendly to new players; I certainly don't see this in DoD or CS; new players are gunned down without mercy and their pleas for assistance generally ignored.
3) Hostility. This is really something new players are more guilty of than the more experianced ones. Experianced players know that their lmg is a good weapon, they know that they can win with sensory first (abit with much more difficulty). Too many new players sit around in the spawn demanding a hmg the poor com obviously can't afford. However, I'm surprised at this "hostility" you speak of towards the player's own team. Sure, I see players getting mad when the com won't give them that jp they really want, but angry at team mates? Hell, every teammate alongside me is one more target, that's nothing but good <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Most games I play the marines work together as a team, sometimes we lose, sometimes we win. Maybe it;s just an Australian thing but we see it as <b>just a game</b>. So what if we lost. So what if the com decided to box in the whole spawn on nancy with com chairs <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> . We had FUN. That's what the game's about at the end of the day.
So kick back, take a chill pill and play the game <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
good point
(Some of what i'm going to say might seem "marine-o-centric" because of references to other games I guess, but with a little thought you can see how much applies to aliens.
There is something a little different about NS compared to say CS or team death match in any random third person shoot 'em up.
I think the fudemental differences are
a) The degree to which you are aware of exactly what other people are doing & (this is the important thing) how their action / inaction is directly effecting your game.
b) The length of time the round takes & the investment in time given for the game.
Lets get (b) out of the way. Games can drag (I mean being exciting for a long period of time). The longer a game goes on, the more people have invested time into it, and the more irratating anything which isnt working becomes.
The reason why a long round time (game in NS, round in CS - important distinction) is important because, games such as CS / bla are either round based and over pretty quickly (i.e. the 5 min round limit) or are "continuous ebs flows" where what happened 5 mins ago is largely irrelevent to whats going on now. In NS, what happened 5 mins ago is probably going to effect the out come of the game as much as the next 5 minutes, as a lot is built upon strategic actions.
So basically, people who have been playing the same round / game for the last 30 mins or know they are going to be playing for the next 30 mins (or expect to be) have a very different attitute to other people's actions.
And for all the old gits out there with jobs (or perhaps yound sprogs with "bed time") when you have precisely 45 mins of gaming & 35 mins are taking up by a game going nowhere... its gonna kock up the stress levels a little.
Now (a).
As commander it is very obvious (or seems to you to be) exactly what people are doing or not doing. Be it, terrible shots, not folllowing orders or suffering from "mother syndrome" (HEALTH PACK HEALTH PACK - but you're on 99%!)
As a player on either side it can be quite obvious (or seems to be) what your commander or builder figure is doing / not doing.
This means its very easy to criticise & be concerned about whats going on in a way most other games dont allow. Its nothing like CS where you get to see your team mates / other side when you're dead - because a) by watching the other side you are distracted from your team anyway b) you'll no doubt be slagging off your last alive team mate as you know the game will be other in 20 seconds and you get to play again.
In NS, because the game can go on, and because you know your success is entirely dependent on the actions on people who you cant control (if your a marine/skulk you cant build, if you're a commander you can't 'be there' and kill aliens your mates are killed by).
This opens up the gates to frustration / stress & criticism to levels other games can't manage (Reaches the parts other games can't ;-)
Once you've had a few frustrating games you become more hostile to people who are making "obvious" mistakes, and more hostile to people who are new because they are a significant disadvantage.
So the properties which make NS so exciting (for me anyways) of length games, strategy, teamwork etc work against it in the level you can enjoy the game in a trivial sense.
But hell its not bad, i've fortunately had many good games & met plenty of decent players (or bad players who are fun to lose with ;-). BUT we tend to aggregate because of reasons above.
However, I have also run into a few REALLY cool players, who more than make up for entire servers full of smacktards. One guy named Bob the Magical Fish (can't remember if he had a clan tag) wasn't just good, he was nice and amusing, constantly shouting encouragement over his mic, giving advice, and just being funny to watch as he guides me in a babbler spam of the marine cc. He went out of his way to give me both gorge and comm experience, and I learned a number of things, and remembered why I play games online. I have met other people like him, people who are willing to teach newbies, and aren't worried if they lose a round or two while doing so, and they truly make the game as worthwhile experience to learn and enjoy.
Remember people, noobs, rambos, smacktards, they will remain so unless they are shown the right way to do this. I strongly urge everyone who sits in that chair to remember that some players don't know the maps, so when you say "go to processing", try and take the time to give the group a waypoint. When you get a chance, call a newbie back to base, let him sit in the chair, then teach him how to use it. Allow a newbie to be your team's second gorge, and show him the ropes. If a newbie asks to try out JP/HMG, give them to him, then tell him who to work with. If he knows how valuable equipment is, he'll be more willing to safeguard it. Make the players feel like they're part of a team, and 9 times out of 10, they will be.
Just some thoughts on how to make the people better. Playing skill is a personal thing, team skill is something we have to work together on.
1. NS players are first above anything else critical of anyone playing or talking about the game. They have a strong belief of how the name should A. be played and B. How it should be. Any deviant behavior is at best frowned a upon. Ex. A. commander trying a new technique or one that is different from the norm. This is usually followed by ejection, even if that commander has won the last few rounds. B. Posting different ideas on the form. This can get some one yelled at, or even have the thread locked.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On top of why the NS community is like this, I would also like to pose the questions:
How does this effect the growth of NS?
How will future versions of NS change or perpetuate this?
Will the ruling bodies of NS do anything to change or improve this mentally?
What underlining frustrations are the cause for these attitudes?
Please no flames, just intelligent conversation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting points, and correct to some degree.
I certainly agree with your first point that people are sometimes over-opinionated on HOW to play NS. If anything, I disagree strongly with the 'win at any cost' camp and how they will play the most boring JP-HMG Rush/3-DC,3-MC Fade rush games over and over, just so that they win. I consider 'winning' as having a good time - it's a game, not a profession. I could understand the attitude if the NS team handed out cash prizes, but we don't. I play a goodly amount of NS, and I try to encourage more imaginative gameplay on every server I join, or enforce it when I comm or gorge (which is easier for me to get away with, I know, but every little bit helps).
On your second point, I disagree and I think the NS community in general on servers does a much better job than MOST mods and games of helping new players. When I'm on a server and see new players, it is very rare that at least one teammate doesn't try to help out the struggling nublet. I challenge most CS servers to have that attitude, and most other games either. Almost the entire BF42 community could be considered hostile IMO for example. If you see this happening, it's youu DUTY to fight it though with your own good attitude and helpfulness. Looking the other way just makes you part of the problem otherwise, folks. It's why the NS Guides organization was formed (unlike any other game ever) - coaches and helpful people who are entrusted with keeping the community alive. When 1.1 comes out, that organization will be revitalized and re-established (it fell to the wayside as so many people became familiar with the game and the need for it was lowered, as well as some upper management difficulties, but this will be changing - stay tuned).
As for your third point on the hostility and short attention span, I blame MTV and SunnyD. It's just your crap teen angst generation and your idiot parent's fault. Worthless babyboomers should have slapped you around when you were bratty children like my folks did.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
J/K (sort of). Seriously, it comes out because NS (unlike any other) is a game where you depend on each other and teamwork in order to survive. See point one about the 'win at any cost' attitude.
so true, but doesnt chernobyl and the fimbles fit in here?
So if i may from Static3d:
<img src='http://www.static3d.com/gaming/bf1942/images/teachnub.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
LM
Anyways, I have to agree with the rest of the people in this thread. The majority of the NS community isn't EXACTLY like you describe though you did get a few things right. Players tend to get VERY competetive during games... this can lead to a variety of bad habits and incidents. Although, most people can keep their cool.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I am very receptive to new ideas, as are most people in the pub games I've played. However, for a new idea to be accepted it has to have the potential to be functional, and a great deal of them do not. Sensory Chambers first, a TF in the beginning of the game, etc. are well known for being comparatively ineffective, and anyone who has not been playing long enough to know this should not be a comm/gorge.
2. Let me say one thing first; there is a difference between a newbie and a "noob". A newbie is simply someone who is new at the game, while a noob is basically a newbie who also happens to completely lack common sense. A newbie should know his place and should know not to try important roles(Comm/Gorge) until they know a lot more about the game. They should not think that they know what's best for the team, and should not try to boss around their comm/gorge. They should listen to what their teammates tell them to do, because they don't know any better yet. Any newbie who does that is generally accepted by the community because they aren't screwing over their team.
However, when you get noobs who go gorge/comm without regard to how it affects the team, who yell at the comm to build things or for not giving him an HMG and Jetpack on demand, and(most importantly) who completely ignore the advice of their teammates. I am forgiving, for example, if a newbie goes gorge when someone else already called it or already is one, but I get impatient quickly if they refuse to go back Skulk(and they usually refuse to even respond to requests, for whatever reason) and that's when the community turns against them. Newbies need to know their place and lay low until they have more experience; newbies don't have much trouble with the NS community, but noobs earn everything they get.
3. See above. It's generally either noobs who get hostile towards their comm, or everyone else who gets hostile towards noobs.
I think what you described as a lack of flexibility about tactics in this game happens in any game, as a result of how long it's been out already. It's been just about 5 months now since NS came out, and since then what works and what doesn't has become common knowledge. It's a natural progression; you'll notice that the prevalence of actual newbies who do completely stupid things has dropped tenfold. It's been an incredibly long time since I saw anyone build a movement or (gasp)sensory chamber first. I imagine this will start up again when 1.1 comes out and people readjust to the changes, but eventually things will settle down and people will have the optimal strategies again. I don't think this sort of thing will be the death of NS.
1. NS players are first above anything else critical of anyone playing or talking about the game. They have a strong belief of how the name should A. be played and B. How it should be. Any deviant behavior is at best frowned a upon. Ex. A. commander trying a new technique or one that is different from the norm. This is usually followed by ejection, even if that commander has won the last few rounds. B. Posting different ideas on the form. This can get some one yelled at, or even have the thread locked.
2. General intolerance. Ns players normally do not go out of there way to help "noobs" nor do they allow them to try there hands at important roles. While other communities might try to nurture a new player. (Same goes for the forum) Some one trying to learn the game normally gets yelled at, and sometimes booted.
3. Hostility. The ns player is normally very hostile (more so when playing marines). Hostile against there own team, commander, and community. NS players either get what they want, or they get angry, really fast. And since ns is all about momentum, a team that gets angry usually stays angry for the rest of round.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On top of why the NS community is like this, I would also like to pose the questions:
How does this effect the growth of NS?
How will future versions of NS change or perpetuate this?
Will the ruling bodies of NS do anything to change or improve this mentally?
What underlining frustrations are the cause for these attitudes?
Please no flames, just intelligent conversation. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) It sure wasn't this way when NS first came out...but for some reason the elite culture developed really quickly, perhaps because of post-CS'ers, or something
2) All the way until after 1.04 came out this was not what the general population was like - my first game ever comming (I didn't even really read all of the frontiersman guide on comming) was fantastic, everyone helped me and we won that game... first game as an alien everyone was also helpful...and on a public server! *gasp* I dunno what happened after that, because apparently somebody set the nice people up the bomb.
3) Refer to CS
I play for about 2 - 4 hours a day (when I play). Once I played for 8 hours straight
I don't really spend time with NS players, but I do play on several servers.
I would list them but im not sure if that is against the board rules.
I have play both aliens and marines. Gorg and Comm often.
I also get my observation from reading posts on this board.
I have to say that I see those problems with nearly all mods and most games. Its almost human nature for a large section of the population.
Its a game, a game that alot of ppl take way to serously. Players just need to chill out and enjoy
As for noobs: Feel free to send them to the =]DV[= server and ill be moe then happy to take time and show em the ropes. While I find that there are few things more annoying the "elite" CS noobs (genrally 12-15 year old boys). I enjoy taking the time to teach new players. ( every one is a noob once)
I still think if you playfully mock the rude people and take the time to school the newbies you can make a positive impact on the overall 'culture' of NS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These kinds of people are ever increasing in number. It annoys me the most is when I go gorge and some guy starts telling me what to do and not do. Okay, dood! I think I know how play!
What's funny is, I give in to them and gloat about it later. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> One time, my teammates ask me to drop the hive despite the fact that hive area was being attacked and patrolled by marines--the marines were very intent on taking the area. I needed some OCs before I do anything, but these fools kept badgering me to drop the hive. I said fine. Whaddyaknow! A JPer comes right into the empty hive and kills it. If they ask me to drop the hive, they would atleast BE THERE to protect it, but they were off doing their own thing. They ask me to drop it again, I said no and told them I need to go into the red room or dropping the hive would be pointless. They yelled at me again to drop it. So I did. Hive finishes but the sieges pounded at it. What a surprise!
That's probably the worst scenario I ever had. Usually it is one random person on the server, but I couldn't believe my eyes when the entire team was in consensus that I drop the hive despite a threat of JPers and wide open Red Room.
...after that I pretty much stopped giving into these retards. But I guess I must be the retard for ever giving in, but hey! Atleast I'm a teamplayer!