Mines > Turrets?

XCan · April 2003

I don't know how many of you have seen this but I myself have been experiencing this rather often these last days. Basicly the commanders (including myself) have abandoned turrets to secure a hive to use mines instead. It's insane how much quicker and cheaper a defense could be set with an armory and a PG.
Now my question to you all is, do you feel that the turrets are simply too useless or that the mines are too strong?
I myself feel like the turrets are worthless unless you farm which in that case becomes WAY too good.
BTW all above is during the games where aliens' have 1 hive.

Frogg2 · April 2003

Yeah turrets are pretty much usless for how much they cost.

ie: 1 TF + 4 turrets = 96 res

All it takes is a few good skulks to take out a turret then the TF...

KRagg · April 2003

For most of the part, mines are fine in and of themselves, but the lack of a red line on floor or roof mines makes them overpowered and annoying. if you round a corner and see the red line, you can generally stop in time if you have quick reactions, but spotting such an object on the floor is very hard, especially as a celerity skulk.

On the other hand, the only way to get around a completely mined corridor is to sacrifice yourself or lerking, which makes for an invulnerable defense if the skulks aren't co-operating and you have a dedicated miner.

If mining is going to be a major strategy, you either need to limit them somehow or give aliens some kind of early-game counter to it.

LoboLeal · April 2003

Secure a hive with only mines is very risky. A carapaced skulk can survive to a mine explosion, so it can destroy the phase gate. Turrets can slow skulks, they are more expensive than mines but are more effective. Main base is defended only by mines because there are IP's. Like main hive is not defended until 2nd hive is up because all dead skulks spawn there.

ElvenThief · April 2003

Before 2 hives, Mines> Turrets. Just keep gorges away. After 2 hives, GG.

*Edit*
And for the record, never assume mines or turrets will defend an area. Marines should patrol your stuff.
And aliens already have a counter- don't walk in them. Detonate them 1 by 1 with carapace. Or gorge spit. Most wikkid minefields are floor only. Nothing like the ability to walk on walls. And just lucky, your level 1 aliens can do that.

XCan · April 2003

The last thing someone should worry about is a skulk taking out a minefield. TF ´+ 4 turrets = 97 res, with that res you can set up umm (97-25)/ 7 which is 10 * 5 = 50 mines. However fewer mines can often do the job often 5 packs at max is more than sufficient. While the aliens are trying to get past the field by saccing themselves marines cap res then WHAMMO JP/HMG or HA/HMG GG....

SjN · April 2003

96 res = 60 mines
60 mines.. hmm..
60 mines on each hive will crash the server =)

Frogg2 · April 2003

96res = better spent on upgrades :D

Cowswin · April 2003

What I'M sick of is mines being spammed to crash the server when marines are losing. Not only is it a good suggestion, I think it's imperative that mines are limited to get rid of llamas and ****.

Gadzuko · April 2003

Turrets may be really expensive, but they aren't one use only like mines. Mines in the entrances + turrets covering each other and the tfac (more mines around tfac) makes a hive invincible against one hive aliens... two hives, better stop dropping those mines.

Huntsman · April 2003

If the aliens only have 1 hive, both mines and turrets are good. Turrets have a greater life expectancy than mines - you can weld them and they don't die with one use. Mines are cheaper, but you only get one shot per mine. It is also much easier to avoid mines. Mines are the quick and cheap method, turrets are the more solid but expensive method. In general I think it is best to have marines with turrets, and add a few mines in, but frankly the marines are the key part to this.

When two hives comes around you'd better hope all your mines have been exploded, since all those res points you spent can now be used to kill your marines.

Mines and turrets are mere support units for your marines. If you have good marines it is often much better to enhance their ability to kill (upgrade em) to a greater extent than to spend a large amount of resources on turrets or mines. Upgrades can never be killed either...

pardzh · April 2003

For base defense, yes, Mines > Turrets.

Turrets are necessary sometimes, because mines just can't do Hive defense well enough.

NyseriA · April 2003

Perhaps the use of either extreme is somewhat silly. The best effect, as with most things, is a blend of the two. Mining a phase gate with a single pack of mines or surrounding a TF with a single pack of mines is more effective when combined with a TF and several turrets than either alone and in any number.

RyoOhki · April 2003

A combination turret mine defense works very well, but your initial focus should be on the mines, as they're far more cost effective. Personally I don't get turrets until I have 2 hives locked down; they're only of use against 1 hive aliens. Fades laugh at them and umbra = pile of twisted metal. It's sad that the marines' main defense structure is so sodding useless, and quite frankly I hardly see how electrified tfs are going to change much: acid rocket > turret farm.

NyseriA · April 2003

I concur, although I think that turrets and mines should only be used to delay the inevitable destruction of your base. You have marines to do the fighting, not inanimate objects like mines and turrets. Naturally, mines are pretty much useless against level 2 aliens unless they are low on resources and yes, they are best used as a precursor to a base. I personally find them mainly useful for securing important buildings like phase.

RyoOhki · April 2003

I fully agree that it is your marines who should be doing the hard work. The big problem though is that a) turrets at 2 hives do nothing. They're actually detrimental because they're dead easy to hit and the splash from acid rockets nails your poor marines b) mines go from being great at 1 hive to freaking dangerous to your own men at 2 hives. Thus turrets and mines arn't even support weaponry at 2 hives; they actually HELP the aliens! I'd love to see some high level tech that improved the accuracy of turrets, just to make them useful at all as opposed to dangerous to your own team <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> And give us SOME kind of way to get rid of mines!

wlibaers · April 2003

Always patrol mined areas! Turrets will keep gorges at a distance, but a gorge can easily sneak into a mined base and build everywhere. Play a good game, die, respawn, and die again because a gorge built a WoL in your main base that's now shooting at everything.

Kenichi · April 2003

here is my opinion on this matter.

As is turrets are quite useless. All they are truly capable of doing effectivly is slowing aliens down. Which in many ways is probably all they need to do. They slow the aliens down while the marines have a chance to run in and kill them. Asking for anything more out of them would be more of a balance issue in my mind. As for mines. They are supposed to be powerfull. They are entirely dodgable my aliens, if you run into one its your fault. As it is, sacrificing 1 skulk to the mines for the sake of an alien advance is nothing but a valid tactic that has long been employed in many ns games. Ask the mines to be weaker and they lose effectivness, ask the turrets to be stronger and suddenly they would be the new option as opposed to the 1.04 jp hmg. You really have to think about balance in these situations. The electrified TF should make turrets are more viable options as base defense. It will ALWAYS be a huge drain on resources if the costs remain as they are. We can't avoid that. Upgrades will almost always be a more productive use of the res. Turrets are nothing more than a catalist the the aliens, and arent really meant to be a true offensive force, unless of course your doing that turrent stuff, in which case your marines were pretty good to begin with and are generally just messing around.

Mines > Turrets?

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