Relocating Base
homerx
Join Date: 2003-04-01 Member: 15094Members
Join Date: 2003-04-01 Member: 15094Members
<div class="IPBDescription">what good does this do?</div> dont get me wrong, im not a newbie in NS, im a pretty good marine, in the sense that i can kill my fair share of skulks.. but im still new at commanding, because its hard to find servers that allow you to practice commanding.. anyway, back to the question, what good does relocating the base do? --- my guess is to save res while securing 1 hive?
Comments
+ Less places for marines to worry about (thiss is the big one)
- Waste of at least 30 res at the start (which is a lot in th ebeginning)
- Less control of the map
- Risky at the start, your marines could all die en-route or get assaulted while putting up the CC/IP
I rarely do it unless MB is getting killed but if your marines aren't too competent or good at following orders it helps. With a phasegate to the other empty hive you now have only two places you need to be to keep the aliens at lvl1 while you do your thing. I don't like it because:
* I like the challenge of keeping tabs on many areas
* I want to conrtrol as much as possible of the map
* I don't want to waste (at least) 30 res in the beginning
I'm a regular on the H2O #7 server. Whenever I do one of my off the wall relocations on this server, I always get a few peeps asking me WTH. One of my favorite relocations is in the chem room on ns_tanith. I only do this when the aliens start in waste though. Marines are like "WTH, Comm all that work and we dont even have a hive. We are dead." But the key to certain relocations is easy access to hives. You won't see a gorg getting into Satt comm, because we are blocking the only room that leads to it (yes there is a vent), and I always am checking on it. So now I have 3 res nodes. Sat comm, chem room, and acidic. My marines are about 10-15 seconds away from cargo room. I lock that down, and I have a siege spot for fusion. I can set my TF up correctly to protect cargo res and fusion res. Thats 5 res nodes, and two hives (I go back and lock down sat comm, after I get fusion). Tech up, suit up, and finish those 1 hive aliens.
So basically a relocation can set you up, so hives are just a few seconds away.
I know those games are very short and pretty boring for aliens. And usually it goes for F4, before the hive is even dead....
<b>'Evil' cases of relocation (as in, good for marines and absolute HELL for aliens):</b>
Cargo Bay Foyer hive location (in Nothing) - On the server I play on, only an occasional newbie, usually the same bunch of regulars. Marines have won nearly 90% of the time in Nothing, when this relocation was viable. If the hive started here, aliens have won about 80% of the time.
Processing (AKA 'double-siege' location) (outside Data Core Delta, in Hera) - With this relocation, aliens have NEVER won, except once, when they started in Ventilation 3-C, and all the aliens camped the marines in Maintenance. This tactic is frowned upon in some servers that I play in.
Refinery hive location (Bast) - Three resource nozzles, although getting there safely is a MAJOR hassle. Easy to defend once set up.
Double-resource locations - Marines just have to camp it, then tech-up.
<b>Some of the worst hives for relocation (near sure-fire loss for marines):</b>
Ventilation 3-C (yes, they've actually done this before, just to see how it'd work out) - Only gives 1 resource nozzle and only 1 conventional exit. Oh, and you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.
Satellite Communications (Tanith) - This has a pretty bad track record, too.
In general, relocating is a bad idea in Caged. Most of the Resources are scattered around the map, not exactly near any hives.
I like outside of archiving for hera, you can cover the archiving hive and most of the center of the map (holoroom, reception). Another awesome spot is cargo. Move the base in there, get a turret factory against the back wall in cargo, and then start building sentries in processing. Makes it much easier to take processing than going there right off.
Cargo in tanith is nice, easy access to the hives through vents. It's a good 1 on 1 spot for marines too, nice open and bright.
Subspace on nancy is easy, but it's just as generic as processing or cargo on nothing. An interesting spot is that room with the res node outside of noname. I know it sounds crazy, but you can cover noname, and mess hall, which means it's pretty safe to take the 2 res nodes near marine spawn as well. This is also right in the center of the map, can get to any of the 3 hives in less than 30 seconds.
I'm also starting to become a big fan of the right hand hallway that leads to refinery on bast (you know, the dark hallway that's between the water and the hive. When I move here though I don't bother with the other 2 refinery res nodes, I either get engine or feedwater locked down right away, it's such a pain to keep databank or refinery nodes alive.
]{orruption made the best point in this thread though. It's not always about moving to a place where you can lock down a hive. Heck, you don't even need to be in siege range. Just close enough to let the aliens know, if they try putting up the hive, it's getting LMGed down in about 10 seconds.
Say whatever you want but you will never get away with the pure fact that relocating does mess up a map's balance....
Everyone remembers the times the aliens get beaten when marines relocate because they often tend to be quite long and 'unfair'.
The times it falls apart and the marines get screwed over are forgotten because these games last all of about 5 minutes.
It is a risky strategy. Hence clans don't do it when thay can procede with the far safer JP/HMG rush.
Refinery on bast - Unless the marines get JP's really quick they get lerked to pieces. This is very rarely done anyway since the Marines usually get ambushed on their way there COM's don't want to risk it.
Cargo on tanith - excellent spot. If the marines actually get it they win about 80-90% of the time, if they are agressive enough. I lost it once though (aliens got enough res to spam Chemical and Sat com with chambers so we couldn't kill the hive before it went up). Need to be aggressive as marine. I actually prefer Chemical.
<!--QuoteBegin--Optikal+Apr 9 2003, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Optikal @ Apr 9 2003, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> opinions.
There are only facts. Stop voicing opinions and try sticking with facts. Opinions are like ****. We all got one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FACT. It costs less to tech to jp hmg and kill a hive
FACT it costs far more to to simply build and maintain a hive lockdown.
FACT you dont think about what i say.
Fact is... if you win, it was worth the res.
Fact is... the easiest path to victory, is usually the least rewarding.
Fact is... YOU don't think about what you say, The topic of this thread is "Relocating Base, what good does this do?" Now S.T.F.U.
Marines Relocate to gain a tactical advantage. This means, hives, resources, choke points. It's easier to defend 1 place then 2. So if your original start does not provide any advantage, relocation becomes viable.
Yeah? Kenichi said it's no good... So uh???
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marines Relocate to gain a tactical advantage. This means, hives, resources, choke points. It's easier to defend 1 place then 2. So if your original start does not provide any advantage, relocation becomes viable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uhh tech rush requires gaurding original base 1 location... ;)
Obviously theres no point in relocating if your doing a tech rush, by which I presume you mean JP/HMG.
Relocating only happens as part of a 1/2 hive lockdown or if the strat gets 'forced' upon you by main base going down early in the game.
A fact?
Sounds very subjective to me.
Oh, and what Timmy said <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
for example:
bast, y`know that one with feed water and refinary.
i relocated to atmos (double res) and its only like 10 seconds away from feed, set up a phase their anyway, and its got that just down a ladder, mined it all up to have four res nodes, only have two turts in feed and just mines covering the res and some at atmos.
got 2 marines to scout out to refinary and the rest are defending while i tech their armour and weaps and built a proto.
recon reports line of ocs, dcs and ref hive going up, i get the recon to set phase at that litte T-Junction just before entering refinary, weaps are now at level 2 and armour at level 1, get marines thru the phase to defend while put down a tf and upgrade it, plant a siege, and one normal turret, siege takes care of most oc and dc and a few res nodes while dropping jp and shotty to experienced players.
all timed just about right with the res inflow from atmos.
anyway, going off the point.
relocation, well worth it!
one last point, relocation gives you MORE control of the map, all maps are made with marine base at the average the most far away point from all the hives, all it gives you is one res node by staying here, at least taking a hive with ur base, usually gives u a res node, hive not going to aliens, all u need to do to lock it down is just have marines spawning here, not really in need of turrets.
Even though it might not seem like it, that extra phase gate step can cause some major traffic jams and portal kills if its not the next one.
Given the circumstances, I'll sometimes relocate to one of two secured hives, and work my way into the endgame from there.
But -
Relocating to the hive is generally pretty weak. Early d chambers will rip apart a relocation, and the cargo/processing relocates - weak. Most relocates average out to be a marine win - not fun.
Favorite Relocating Spots
ns_tanith = no thanks
ns_nothing = if you do relocate cargo, don't reloc in hive. Relocate just on the hive-side of vent chamber nozzle.
ns_nancy = mother interface, auxilary comm, but not noname.
ns_bast = relocates are almost neccessary on this map, given the ridiculous condition of the marine main base. Atmo covers feed, Main Aft covers engine and easy access to refinery.
ns_caged = pumping station, shipping tunnel, and NOT generator. Shipping/Vent, be careful of the blue-tinted areas, some places are unbuildable. I haven't found a regular badspot - just happens randomly.
btw, is it just me, or are people really big fans of building TFs to cover multiple res nodes?
btw, is it just me, or are people really big fans of building TFs to cover multiple res nodes? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it is not just you. I do build turrets in double res points, because they will stay up much longer and they are also really important places.
Hmmm.....relocate is almost necessary in ns_bast?? I haven't ever relocated in that map.
I think that map is perhaps the easiest map to win as marines, if aliens starts in ref or engine (well i know that almost every map is pretty easy to win with early game jp/hmg rush).
I mean, you just have to shut the vent and then order everyone in atmo. Phase up, TF, 4-8 sentry (depending how many players), then move in feed, phase, TF sentrys and you can also take that res from down there near feedwater hive. Then siege in base and you can destroy every defences what aliens might have builded from engine. HA/hmg rush in engine (you can do it, because you have 4-5 res node in that point) and then just finish the ref.
Also keep in mind that relocation costs 30+ RPs.
And a sidenote for you closed-minded guys out there, you don't need a JP/HMG to tech-rush. Lvl 3 weaps and armor and i can kill a fade alone (i'd REALLY prefer a buddy though....i can't do it consistently). And if they get too big for that, just hand out an HMG or two, and you got enough firepower to down anything!
Classics:
Reactor room
Cargo Bay Foyer
Atmospheric Processing
Holoroom
Less known but equally credible:
Mother interface
Cargo Storage (Tanith)
Freight Elevator (caged)
Southloop (If u know where to put buildings so they can upgrade)
er there are more but its 4 am and i need sleep.
BUT there are many useless/rubbish relocations which comms do for the sake of relocating, and these "useless relocations" include -
Generator Hive (caged)
Sewer Hive (caged)
Eclipse Command
Power Silo
Unnamed Hive
(theres more)
These are popular, rubbish relocations for reasons i will not delv into.
^^ this is all you need to know <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->