The_Real_QuasarHas the I.Q. of 12,000 P.E. TeachersJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 9998Members
Defence will still come first, no other chamber offers protection against upgraded marines... Celerity allows you to dodge lagger's bullets, but Not A Lot Of People Know That
first before I say anything, littlewild, I love that animated sig man.. I can't stop watching it heh
As far as the aliens go I predict the public games wont have the standard build order like we see it now. Well for the most part we will, but I see most players trying something different. Especially since it wont hurt the game when you have two gorges from the beginning, but I think the movement chamber will still work better as a second or third hive option unless players make use of silence or celerity. Adrenaline makes little since in the early game, because the aliens aren't hungry for it when they only have bite and the gorge is more concerned with building
Personally I think silence will become far more useful than carapace (seeing as shottys and hmgs will STILL kill you in half a second with or without carapace), and area cloak will become possibly more useful than area healing for gorge defensive placements...
So I reckon this is the problem might Flay face at hive 1 (in 1.1): Def = Useful for every1 Mov = Really useful for attackers Sens = Really useful for gorges
I can see def chambers still coming out on top cos it makes more people almost as happy...
I'm still a bit worried that Def will be first because most people are used to skulk rushes and direct attacks. Even as a stealth, you can get so much more use out of the def than the proposed upgrades. The sole reason for this is that un upgraded skulks are fodder for even unupgraded marines while lvl 3 cap will have few problems with even a frontal assult on the same marines. My suggestion would be to make the difference a bit less in the skulks. Increase the health and decrease the amounto fo armor they get. This way, even unupgraded skulks have some sort of chance giving you room to use things like cloaking and silence.
Oh, and a quick comment on cloaking a hive: I think this might be useful if used right. Imagine cloaking you hive and placing 2-3 OCs in each hive location. How are Rambos going to know which hive you have? More helpful is cloaking a building hive. I can just see it now, a gorge plops down 3 sensory chambers just before the marines decide to occupy the hive location. Since the turrets won't see the chambers, they won't shoot. Along comes a gorge that sneaks in and starts a hive build. Before long the hive is building <i>right under the marine's noses</i>. I mean, how many commanders scan their own bases? It might be nice if the scans didn't overcome the cloak.
im guessing it depends on if the hive will heal itself or not now, but silence is gonna totally rock regardless <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> fun factor +++
The new scent of fear is gonna be nasty. In effect it parasites all nearby marines w/o out them having the PARASITE DETECTED bar on the bottom. Marines are gonna have to be very careful going around corners.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chadseh+Apr 10 2003, 01:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chadseh @ Apr 10 2003, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd MUCH rather have scent of fear now, than carapace.
Who cares how much armour you have, when you can kill people without them firing a shot? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And then add the new silence......... <drools>
Although if the marines manage to tech up you're in trouble.
I'm pretty sure it'll probably still be D/M/S.. sure sensory gets some beefs.. but unless carapace gets a nerf...
I'd love to see D/S/M though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are you sure that there is still that restriction of having only one upgrade chamber? It might as well be the case that these things will change (as was suggested already and commented by Flayra)... The whole gameplay will change (drastically?) hence you cannot predict possible strategies...
Yes sensory is looking more and more appealing. The issues that I'll want to look at will be how sensory plays out in the LONG run. Let's say we overlook the fact that skulks are easily killed without carapace and that MT will negate any advantage that scent of fear would provide. It also doesn't take into account the benefit having DCs under a hurt hive will have.
So let's say you start off with sensory, when you secure a second hive you run into one of two problems.
-You get a DC and end up with offensively gimped fades and lerks who run out of adrenaline quickly. They are forced to use only melee attacks. Lerks would not be able to provide effective umbra coverage -You get a MC and end up with defensively gimped fades and lerks who are easy to kill and have no redemption abilities, and thus once you die you are unable to evolve again quickly. With no DCs near the front lines to heal from, you need to run back to the hive (or find a gorge) to get healed.
The problem seems to be that the relative strength of aliens seems to be dependant on aliens having a DC first. AKA, DCs are just too damn good.
The only way around this would be to have all chambers able to be built at the beginning, and then players choose the level of upgrade they want. In any case, we'll have to see how it plays out in 1.1
here's what I thought about enhanced sight: be able to see siege ranges, DC ranges, etc. These could be kind of like the commander's turret range from commander view. Oh well, just a thought
Didnt bother reading anything past 2nd page, but to adress peoples points that a defense tower will still be the most viable tower, it has been stated that multiple gorges will be viable. Therefore it will be possible to have one gorge be the 'building healer,' and guess what his job will be? Healing buildings. If employed effectivly, the benefits derived from defense chambers would be lessend dramaticaly, and each of the other chambers would be quite viable.
<!--QuoteBegin--Savant+Apr 10 2003, 05:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Savant @ Apr 10 2003, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes sensory is looking more and more appealing. The issues that I'll want to look at will be how sensory plays out in the LONG run. Let's say we overlook the fact that skulks are easily killed without carapace and that MT will negate any advantage that scent of fear would provide. It also doesn't take into account the benefit having DCs under a hurt hive will have.
So let's say you start off with sensory, when you secure a second hive you run into one of two problems.
-You get a DC and end up with offensively gimped fades and lerks who run out of adrenaline quickly. They are forced to use only melee attacks. Lerks would not be able to provide effective umbra coverage -You get a MC and end up with defensively gimped fades and lerks who are easy to kill and have no redemption abilities, and thus once you die you are unable to evolve again quickly. With no DCs near the front lines to heal from, you need to run back to the hive (or find a gorge) to get healed.
The problem seems to be that the relative strength of aliens seems to be dependant on aliens having a DC first. AKA, DCs are just too damn good.
The only way around this would be to have all chambers able to be built at the beginning, and then players choose the level of upgrade they want. In any case, we'll have to see how it plays out in 1.1
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, but why should u always do the same? So k with 1.04 its clear u should not build a freakin sens first, but with 1.1 they are saying it will be possible, so why not do it? and win aswell?
Wondering.. I thought Flayra said that with one hive you can build all the chambers, but have one (the first one you build) able to upgrade to level 3?
Movement chamber has HUGE range. I mean almost as big as Siege range and it gives you two bonuses: a) It regenerates your power-bar pretty fast. The more chambers the faster regeneration b) It makes your attacks faster. 3MCs would make your attack two times faster.
So this way movement chambers would be pretty good in any hive because they make your attacks more dangerous and you don't have to stand right next to them. They are big-area buildings and marines can make Kharaa less dangerous by keeping MCs down and Kharaa can gain more power by building movement chambers all around the map.
yeah, but this may become too powerful, so I'm not really sure. It would still go D-M-S in that case, also, because if you're attacking marine base you have to have 1) healing and 2) energy
<!--QuoteBegin--l337 l3|2K+Apr 12 2003, 11:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (l337 l3|2K @ Apr 12 2003, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah, but this may become too powerful, so I'm not really sure. It would still go D-M-S in that case, also, because if you're attacking marine base you have to have 1) healing and 2) energy <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You would have energy and double speed attacks, I think you would prefer those over healing.
Comments
Celerity allows you to dodge lagger's bullets, but Not A Lot Of People Know That
As far as the aliens go I predict the public games wont have the standard build order like we see it now. Well for the most part we will, but I see most players trying something different. Especially since it wont hurt the game when you have two gorges from the beginning, but I think the movement chamber will still work better as a second or third hive option unless players make use of silence or celerity. Adrenaline makes little since in the early game, because the aliens aren't hungry for it when they only have bite and the gorge is more concerned with building
So I reckon this is the problem might Flay face at hive 1 (in 1.1):
Def = Useful for every1
Mov = Really useful for attackers
Sens = Really useful for gorges
I can see def chambers still coming out on top cos it makes more people almost as happy...
Oh, and a quick comment on cloaking a hive: I think this might be useful if used right. Imagine cloaking you hive and placing 2-3 OCs in each hive location. How are Rambos going to know which hive you have? More helpful is cloaking a building hive. I can just see it now, a gorge plops down 3 sensory chambers just before the marines decide to occupy the hive location. Since the turrets won't see the chambers, they won't shoot. Along comes a gorge that sneaks in and starts a hive build. Before long the hive is building <i>right under the marine's noses</i>. I mean, how many commanders scan their own bases? It might be nice if the scans didn't overcome the cloak.
Marines are gonna have to be very careful going around corners.
Who cares how much armour you have, when you can kill people without them firing a shot?
Who cares how much armour you have, when you can kill people without them firing a shot? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then add the new silence......... <drools>
Although if the marines manage to tech up you're in trouble.
I'd love to see D/S/M though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Think about it, cloacked movement chambers near their base, u having silence and scent of fear >:].
*drowling on keyboard*
So let's say you start off with sensory, when you secure a second hive you run into one of two problems.
-You get a DC and end up with offensively gimped fades and lerks who run out of adrenaline quickly. They are forced to use only melee attacks. Lerks would not be able to provide effective umbra coverage
-You get a MC and end up with defensively gimped fades and lerks who are easy to kill and have no redemption abilities, and thus once you die you are unable to evolve again quickly. With no DCs near the front lines to heal from, you need to run back to the hive (or find a gorge) to get healed.
The problem seems to be that the relative strength of aliens seems to be dependant on aliens having a DC first. AKA, DCs are just too damn good.
The only way around this would be to have all chambers able to be built at the beginning, and then players choose the level of upgrade they want. In any case, we'll have to see how it plays out in 1.1
Regards,
Savant
I thought that was exactly what he's doing?
So let's say you start off with sensory, when you secure a second hive you run into one of two problems.
-You get a DC and end up with offensively gimped fades and lerks who run out of adrenaline quickly. They are forced to use only melee attacks. Lerks would not be able to provide effective umbra coverage
-You get a MC and end up with defensively gimped fades and lerks who are easy to kill and have no redemption abilities, and thus once you die you are unable to evolve again quickly. With no DCs near the front lines to heal from, you need to run back to the hive (or find a gorge) to get healed.
The problem seems to be that the relative strength of aliens seems to be dependant on aliens having a DC first. AKA, DCs are just too damn good.
The only way around this would be to have all chambers able to be built at the beginning, and then players choose the level of upgrade they want. In any case, we'll have to see how it plays out in 1.1
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, but why should u always do the same? So k with 1.04 its clear u should not build a freakin sens first, but with 1.1 they are saying it will be possible, so why not do it? and win aswell?
Movement chamber has HUGE range. I mean almost as big as Siege range and it gives you two bonuses:
a) It regenerates your power-bar pretty fast. The more chambers the faster regeneration
b) It makes your attacks faster. 3MCs would make your attack two times faster.
So this way movement chambers would be pretty good in any hive because they make your attacks more dangerous and you don't have to stand right next to them. They are big-area buildings and marines can make Kharaa less dangerous by keeping MCs down and Kharaa can gain more power by building movement chambers all around the map.
Sounds cool aye?
You would have energy and double speed attacks, I think you would prefer those over healing.