What Happened To Common Sense
Praevus
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8424Members
Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8424Members
First, I personally believe it is a general fact that the players and community of NS are VERY untolerable of newbies. You can have newbies in other game that can and will screw up half-arsed. That is fine. Let them survive on their own. Let them 'build' or whatnot on their own.
But, it only takes one bad comm or newbies that get a insta-hardon for becoming gorge to make the lose-win factor.
You can help them out, but my god I swear their awareness level just sinks when it comes to this mod. Yes, newbies ARE encouraged to be marines. Yes, this game does not have the learning curve of 10 minutes. But, that doesn't mean you throw common sense out the window, much like assuming Person A went on a public rampage for the sole reason of X, and throwing the 'crazy' factor out the window. Honestly, there are just way too many obvious things to SIMPLY notice and newbies still do it or fail to.
1. When everyone is yelling to take the phase, they get ammo.
2. If Person X is the only one alive and a unbuilt inf portal is in front, they don't do it.
Both are simple concepts are easy to do.
A few familiar games that I've played in which you can STILL have the possibility of winning, with newbies, would be Tribes and SC. Man, I just loved getting my kills on when the entire team sucked. I would always join the losing team because I know I can make a good difference. When it comes to which game gets the worse newbies to start, NS picks up the trophy.
I don't attack a newbie, in NS, because they don't understand the concept of the game... unless of course the person has a big mouth and keeps on purposely talking about what he/she does not know about.
I attack a newbie based on the fact that they have no frikken common sense, esp in this mod.
But, it only takes one bad comm or newbies that get a insta-hardon for becoming gorge to make the lose-win factor.
You can help them out, but my god I swear their awareness level just sinks when it comes to this mod. Yes, newbies ARE encouraged to be marines. Yes, this game does not have the learning curve of 10 minutes. But, that doesn't mean you throw common sense out the window, much like assuming Person A went on a public rampage for the sole reason of X, and throwing the 'crazy' factor out the window. Honestly, there are just way too many obvious things to SIMPLY notice and newbies still do it or fail to.
1. When everyone is yelling to take the phase, they get ammo.
2. If Person X is the only one alive and a unbuilt inf portal is in front, they don't do it.
Both are simple concepts are easy to do.
A few familiar games that I've played in which you can STILL have the possibility of winning, with newbies, would be Tribes and SC. Man, I just loved getting my kills on when the entire team sucked. I would always join the losing team because I know I can make a good difference. When it comes to which game gets the worse newbies to start, NS picks up the trophy.
I don't attack a newbie, in NS, because they don't understand the concept of the game... unless of course the person has a big mouth and keeps on purposely talking about what he/she does not know about.
I attack a newbie based on the fact that they have no frikken common sense, esp in this mod.
Comments
right, thats pretty much all you need to have said.
only reason i attack a newbie is when they dont listen. its different if they don't know about the game, that i can understand. but when they go gorge when you already have one and you tell them to switch back to skulk and they dont listen, that is when i get... mad.
The only time I ever get a wee bit ticked is when they jump in the comm or go gorge or lerk straight off the bat.
<#cri.tical (Team)> Why did you do that? Are you new to the game? Need some help?
<no response>
<#cri.tical (Team)> Hey man, let me help you with that gorge, k?
<no response>
If newbies at least know how to communicate, I'm happy. If they don't know what they are doing and they don't ask for help or respond to offers for help, then I'm annoyed.
I've also noticed that most of the people that are considered "newbies" aren't really new at all. Those are the people we dislike. They've been playing the game and they think their way is best, etc. When they really have no clue =/
Oh well.
Play, <3, and don't go gorge if I'm on the alien team. I'll do it from now on. As a matter of fact, maybe Flayra should just hardcode my WONID in as the only person allowed to go gorge. I'd never have another bad alien game! Plz people quit blaming the gorge though. Go do skulk things rather than whine at the gorge.
Remember, all you little skulks: Gorges > Skulks when it comes to intelligence.
</rant>
(about 6v6 on eclipse, start at maint) I called gorge at the beginning in both type and voice. Some guy goes gorge after I start gestating. I think "Ok, ok. This can work. Better take advantage of the situation then to waste 13 res." I specifically tell him multiple times not to ungorge. He gestates back to skulk, wasting 4 more res. (people, if you want to go back to skulk, either kill yourself or do a suicide run at the marines) Right after he becomes a skulk, some other guy becomes gorge. I'm just awe-struck after the whole conversation on the chat and voice was about NOT having another person go gorge. I think "This would work okay if I didn't know this person was new to the game". He tries to build near the marine base and gets killed. (keep in mind that I've been waiting on res the whole time for the first res tower.. probably at 16 by now) Suddenly 3 marines come into our hive location and start knifing the res tower. One skulk (maybe 2) was helping despite the 3 yellow circles and my comments over voice. The skulk killed one before dieing. Despite my calls on voice no more came to help or were too far away. So I went in and heal-sprayed one to death just as the res node went down and the last was killed by another skulk. (probably the same one that just respawned) So my res went to building our first rt again. A minute later and the marines had both the other hives secured. Gah.
I try to be understanding, but that was just ridiculous. Of course, most of the time I'm fine with what players do as long as they communicate.
Also, people need to realize that two gorges isn't such a bad thing. Advantages: one guy can put up defenses as the other saves for hive. They can heal-spray each other in certain circumstances. (like taking the hive together) If one gorge goes down, you have a backup. etc. Disadvantages: you have one less skulk fighting. That's it. [edit: this is taking into consideration that both gorges are getting res towers first]
3 gorges is another matter. You won't be able to get a hive up nearly as fast. So no 3-gorge strats unless you understand the risk to the team and just want to have fun with a gorge rush or something. However, 3+ gorges becomes okay much later in the game if you have enough players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ignorance can be cured, stupidity can't <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
most new people are ignorant
I agree and disagree.
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Apr 17 2003, 02:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Apr 17 2003, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please understand that two gorges working together can get a hive up just as fast if not faster (10 secs faster according to calculations) than one gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The <b>working together</b> is key. In my post earlier, I didn't mean to sound like a "one gorge only" type of guy. I merely discourage non-communitive players from gorging because most of them don't even know how to gorge on their own, much less work as part of a gorge team.
Gah, that is the worst. If I go gorge and someone else goes gorge without asking I don't get annoyed right away. I ask "what are you doing?" and then if they reply we can work something out. Sometimes one of us goes RT cappin while the other does DCs, or mabye we both cap an RT each, then DCs. And eventually one saves while the other does whatever else needs doing. It's cool, it all falls together and is better than just gorging by myself IMO (as long as the skulks can handle being 1 down).
It gets bad when they don't say <i>anything</i>. They are just off somewhere doing God-only-knows-what while I just do whatever I would have done, but now with less res. Usually I ask a skulk to go check out wth the other gorge is doing, often the **** is building OCs around an isolated RT. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> That really gets me. You wanna gorge? Then you have a responsibility to let your team know WTH it is you're doing, <i>especially</i> if one of those team-mates is a fellow gorge.
Okay, then. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> However, I said that because I'm tired of people yelling at another player going 2nd gorge for WHATEVER reason. Therefore, people should make their comments more appropriate. (ie. "If you're going to be the 2nd gorge this early in the game, please cap at least 2 resource nozzles first.") Sure, it takes longer to type, but at the beginning of the game the gorge usually has plenty of time to do so. You could even say something like this over voice if you have a mic.
BTW, I played a two gorge game today and it went wonderfully. (this after our two initial gorges died) We both put two res towers down and I waited for RP to put up the hive while the other gorge put up defense at the new hive. Then we forward built into atmospheric processing to keep the marines busy and possibly open it up and give support for the other aliens. The marines couldn't kill us as we were spray healing each other and our OCs while putting up DCs behind them. Then, when we cleared the 3rd hive, he waited for RP to put up the hive while I put up defense.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gah, that is the worst. If I go gorge and someone else goes gorge without asking I don't get annoyed right away. I ask "what are you doing?" and then if they reply we can work something out. Sometimes one of us goes RT cappin while the other does DCs, or mabye we both cap an RT each, then DCs. And eventually one saves while the other does whatever else needs doing. It's cool, it all falls together and is better than just gorging by myself IMO (as long as the skulks can handle being 1 down).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This reflects my opinion as well. The later the game gets, (if were winning) the less it matters though.
For instance: 4 players/1 gorge, 8 players/2 gorge etc.
Compare it to CS. In CS, you can have a few bad players, but one really good player can totally over-compensate for those bad players. In CS, one really good player can kill the entire opposing team and win the game, regardless of what those few bad players are doing.
In NS, if even one bad player goes gorge or jumps in the comm chair, it can possibly spell disaster for the entire team. Granted, one really good player can win the game (with a good jp/hmg rush for example), but that scenario is much more rare compared to in CS.
In CS, if a player decides to be a "n00b", oh well, thats their loss and doesn't necessarily affect the team. In NS, if a player decides to be a "n00b", thats a big deal because not only are they possibly losing for themselves, they may also be causing their <b>entire</b> team to lose. People take offense to that.
No one wants one bad player to spoil the game for the entire team. That's why the NS community is generally more intolerable of "n00b" players. You just have to remember, being new to the game is one thing. Being a jerk and not allowing anyone to help you is entirely different. People hate the latter.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not going to debate this, because its so general just like saying "you were once a child, too." There is no way to dodge this, so I'll leave it be.
With that said, lets assume there is a 'newbie ladder' that starts at 1%. Higher up you are, less noobish you are. Some people, such as myself, can climb this ladder real quick. You instantaneously learn, as a Marine for example, to NOT go into the comm chair if you are new. I don't care what you say, its just plain common sense to not do an important role/position if you can't do it.
Still, some still lack common sense and do it anyways because, in their own sane mind, they'll do 'just fine.' That is what gets me angry. Aside from those that do it purposely, you always have someone wanting to be gorge, that can't play the role correct.
Of course, I can't be narrow minded by the word 'role.' There is more than one variety to play this game, to win. It is a <b>gradually</b> accepted fact that, for aliens, you lay defense chambers first AFTER you get two nozzles... but thats just me. I'm not saying its a rule, or you have to. I'm simply stating that a damn good majority of people do it.
I suppose I should've just said, "Newbies, know your damn role and don't get into the comm chair and don't go gorge." Feel free to voice your opinion that I'm bashing newbies. Its more or less the fact that I don't have the confidence of them HAVING common sense.. THAT is what makes them dangerous (to losing).
oh, common sense, they took that out with the 1.04 patch <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/sarcams]
*bump*
I serverly doubt he was actually.
n00b = ignorant perosn who does what they think is best and never listens to advice, often a bad player ad insults people. Also the llama variety of n00b does things to screw up the game on purpose.
A newbie, yes we were all one once, this is a person that is new to the game, and the difference between a newbie and a n00b is that newbies are new and ask for advice or at the very least try to help out and listen.
As for the whole common sense thing, people are stupid, and do their own thing a lot of the time, tis a shame, as they think by getting that extra 200 bullets they will be invincible or summat <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> , as oppose to getting through the PG to secure/ rescue a position.
the first thing i did when i played NS for the first time....
"Hi team... i'm a noob."
"I mean FRESH noob"
"Like this is my first time playing... NUUB!"
*everybody was very helpful.
-HOWEVER-
when people were yelling on the Mic and telling me to get to Atmospheric/ Refinery/ etc....
... and i was completely lost... let alone knowing where any of those places were....
... it was a bit tough to follow orders...
in fact... i would get SO lost in NS sometimes. I would become ignorant to everything that's going on in that particular game (whether we winning or losing) because well NS is... different and it took awhile to simply adapt to the world. So there would be all sorts of things happenening.... (hives going up... down... etc)... and i would be absolutely oblivious to any Voice Comm/TeamSay/Text... because i'm STILL trying to find Mother Interface.
*Point being... it's a sticky situtation.
-i recommend setting up "noob servers" and "vet. servers"...
NOOB+VETS don't ever work out right for me (unless its like gorge training) in 1.04
....1.1 i dunno?
ps: noob=newb for me. Just like how "****" means a lot of things for me also.
oh, common sense, they took that out with the 1.04 patch <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/sarcams]
*bump* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully this is getting fixed in 1.1
But, it only takes one bad comm or newbies that get a insta-hardon for becoming gorge to make the lose-win factor.
You can help them out, but my god I swear their awareness level just sinks when it comes to this mod. Yes, newbies ARE encouraged to be marines. Yes, this game does not have the learning curve of 10 minutes. But, that doesn't mean you throw common sense out the window, much like assuming Person A went on a public rampage for the sole reason of X, and throwing the 'crazy' factor out the window. Honestly, there are just way too many obvious things to SIMPLY notice and newbies still do it or fail to.
1. When everyone is yelling to take the phase, they get ammo.
2. If Person X is the only one alive and a unbuilt inf portal is in front, they don't do it.
Both are simple concepts are easy to do.
A few familiar games that I've played in which you can STILL have the possibility of winning, with newbies, would be Tribes and SC. Man, I just loved getting my kills on when the entire team sucked. I would always join the losing team because I know I can make a good difference. When it comes to which game gets the worse newbies to start, NS picks up the trophy.
I don't attack a newbie, in NS, because they don't understand the concept of the game... unless of course the person has a big mouth and keeps on purposely talking about what he/she does not know about.
I attack a newbie based on the fact that they have no frikken common sense, esp in this mod. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is when newbies frequent a server that has low skill players, they learn to play like them, and get away with things they usually would not get away against mid or high quality players. They develop bad habbits, but its not their fault, they think they are doing a good job and what not. ITs also a problem when the people yell at them for doing the wrong things (we've all done this, whether it be out of frustration or just having a bad day), I try not to do this personally, seeing how most people in the community would just LOVE an excuse to pick on a sYn member (you know who you are), so I have to restrain myself sometimes. I try and help newbies out, but only if they want to learn. I dont try say "hey i'm in a clan listen to me punk", thats rude and a turn off. The best thing to do is lead by example, and answer any questions as possible. Unfortunately, when these players develop bad habbits already, its almost impossible to unlearn what is learned, you can preach tell yell **** moan, it does not matter, once a newbie is set in his ways, nothing can change until they admit what they do is wrong and ask for help (sounds like an AA meeting in here <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Bad Habbits>Common Sense in terms of getting them thinking straight.
Ah! So YOU'RE the one that doesn't listen to my voice com! That's irresponsible to your team.
Seriously, leave it on and mute those who are talking about something else besides the game. Don't forget to tell them you are muting them so they know to type important messages.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ps: noob=newb for me. Just like how "****" means a lot of things for me also. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People needed a word to describe a blissfully or arrogantly ignorant player. Thus "noob". Maybe instead of "i'm a newbie", people can just say "i'm new" so as not to confuse the two. You don't see too many people calling other people "newbies" because it's not really offensive. That's what "noob" was intended for. I try not to use it, though.
What bothers me the most out of newbies, noobs, regulars, and veterans is when a regular/veteran tells somebody to do something that is not rationally sound. (ie. going gorge, building a rt, and gestating back to skulk.) Due to their status and skill, new players will think these actions are the correct way to play rather than thinking through it themselves.
Amen to that. It makes me shudder when I hear a teammate say "I'm going tempgorge". Anyway, newbie only servers would be funny simply because the admins would be justified in banning people that were too good. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Also, instead of differentiating between "newbie" and "n00b", I like to say "newbie" and "llama". The llama is the lame obnoxious player, who might also be a newbie. A newbie is simply someone new at the game.
Heh-heh... ya, some noobs are funny like that and just enrich the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, instead of differentiating between "newbie" and "n00b", I like to say "newbie" and "llama". The llama is the lame obnoxious player, who might also be a newbie. A newbie is simply someone new at the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I've never seen it used in that sense, but I guess you're right. "llama" could be used. Or "lamer".
It says, "Aliens can morph into new creatures! Try it, open up your menu and...."
And of course, the only thing they can change to is a gorge.
That damn tip needs to be removed.
And in some cases I am amazed that they managed to turn on their comp, download and install NS, <b>and</b> join a server.