Lower Your Ambitions
Stoneburg
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8174Members
<div class="IPBDescription">please</div> I'm usually all for ambitions, but please, with regards to tactics, lower them a notch or two. Don't present your tactic as "It always works" or "You can't lose with this one", or even the dreaded "This is the best strategy". It makes for a very unintelligent discussion since you are wrong right off the bat. The discussion will just be about proving that you are wrong, and the point of the thread will mainly be lost.
A topic like "this is a good strategy" or "this usually works on ns_bast" however is a lot easier to support.
The only way a strategy can be universally "the best" is if the game is broken and that strategy manages to take a 100% advantage of that, in which case it is uninteresting. You can argue that for example a JP/HMG rush would be that but it's not true, they have and will be countered hundreds of times already and will be again in the future. As far as we can tell, the game is not 'broken'. It may have imbalances, actually it has to, nothing more complex then a molecule could be perfectly balanced, and not even they can I think.
All strategies are relative to at least these fundamental factors:
- How good your team is (or what they are good at)
- How good your enemies are (or what they are good at)
- What your enemy strategy is
Using 'good' in a very abstract way here...
Please take this into consideration next time you post a strategy, that is all I ask. You can consider this thread a "good tactic for posting strategies".
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
A topic like "this is a good strategy" or "this usually works on ns_bast" however is a lot easier to support.
The only way a strategy can be universally "the best" is if the game is broken and that strategy manages to take a 100% advantage of that, in which case it is uninteresting. You can argue that for example a JP/HMG rush would be that but it's not true, they have and will be countered hundreds of times already and will be again in the future. As far as we can tell, the game is not 'broken'. It may have imbalances, actually it has to, nothing more complex then a molecule could be perfectly balanced, and not even they can I think.
All strategies are relative to at least these fundamental factors:
- How good your team is (or what they are good at)
- How good your enemies are (or what they are good at)
- What your enemy strategy is
Using 'good' in a very abstract way here...
Please take this into consideration next time you post a strategy, that is all I ask. You can consider this thread a "good tactic for posting strategies".
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I'm so tired of getting flamed by all the people who find one strategy and stick with it or die. I prefer variable tactics rather than timed and standardized exploitation of the unbalanced ones. Anyways, GG JP/HMCAL. You shot yourselves in the foot when you wouldn't try something new because you wanted to be #1.
-OldManRipper
but i agree no one strategy is the best. the best strategy imo is to be flexible. and also to be adventurous. try new things. (although ur team will say "NOOB COMM kick him"
- How good your team is (or what they are good at)
- How good your enemies are (or what they are good at)
- What your enemy strategy is
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Absolutely true dude. Most comms dont use the "scan" option to gather information about the enemy forces though, so they send us to fight primary defensive troops and/or installations.. while we should be securing resources/hives or after we have secured one of the hives, the comm should use scan to spy on our enemy:
what are they doing, where are most of their forces going, etc. There is alot of information to find out with the "scan" after observatory is built.
And if we are getting nowhere due to heavy defenses, constant casualities etc, structure losses, the commander should change his tactic/strategy and inform us the new orders.
Having information is vital too, so dont neclect it.
I'm so tired of getting flamed by all the people who find one strategy and stick with it or die. I prefer variable tactics rather than timed and standardized exploitation of the unbalanced ones. Anyways, GG JP/HMCAL. You shot yourselves in the foot when you wouldn't try something new because you wanted to be #1.
-OldManRipper <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you are going to blame anyone for the broken JP/HMG rush, blame the first group of PTers. Flayra made JPs too cheap because the PTers did not want to use them. They were too busy focusing on "having fun" than testing out strategies that are broken. Do not blame the league for poor PTing.
Also, in the 5 months of acutal testing, not once did the marines rush and spawn kill, so thats another thing to take into consideration.
This applies to Natural Selection because it is hard to control the human aspect of the gameplay. I believe the current definition of balanced would be the condition that two teams of equal skill will be hard pressed to win. Sounds easy enough, but what is skill? It's sort of a lot of things - ability to aim, move, plot ambushes....and in NS, even the ability to think strategically and tactically would increase your skill. And what if two players of "very skilled" do not have the same matchup as two players who are "relatively unskilled"? Wouldn't that increase the chances of the skulk, since the marine is not as likely to hit him? He just runs in there and bites, and each of his hits does much more damage. Is this balanced?
This is such a large soup of things. I haven't EVEN scratched the surface of scratching the surface here.
If we look about Stoneburg's post this way, we even see that balanced gameplay can itself take into account balance (the relative goodness of the teams, and what they are good at). I'm not quite sure if I was going anywhere in particular with this. Perhaps it's just something to think about so poor Flay isn't bombarded by OMG WHEN IS Teh 1.1 COMMING OUT?!?!11
Yeah, that'll work. Give it time. Have patience.
And assuming the marines execute properly and dont make stupid mistakes..
The marine rush is by far the best strat. Yes it can be countered, but against a team that knows how to execute and hold respawns there's no way out of it.
Some games I can horde a mas of Res because the aliens are not to agressive...or I have enough rambo's to keep them occupied. I usually have motion track up in the first couple minutes of play...however one game I actualy forgot for about 15 minutes. Someone has to remind me, we were doing rather well...and I was so busy I hadn't gotten to it.
Another thing i have to learn is the abilities of my Marines...which ones are Veterans...which ones make good sargents...who is good with what weapon. Who has voice comm and can speak quickly and inteligently. Lot of things to factor in all at once.
With all this I tend to stay flexible and adaptive to what happens in game. I am also good at knowing when a game is unwinnable and now over. I can then tell this to my team to try and motivate them and kick em in the butt. Plus if they have any skill they will notice too. Personally I don't really recommend sticking with one strat all the time. Once the aliens learn to counter it...your done for. It works great to start with one or to main plans that you use but, if they don't work...to modify them. I have started using JP HMG commando's to try and take down or at least harrass hives during mid game. Hasn't been working perfect since in many cases teamwork is lacking. However I believe if I can find just 3 good marines who can move as a group with this and hit a weak hive quick...they can unload and take it down. Even if they all die it works because I will have the rest of the team working over another chunk of the map. Probably is all marine skill level...and teamwork...not always garunteed...
adapting is important, skill is important, but knowing your team is the most valuable thing.
There are some things, like not letting the aliens set up three hives, not letting everyone wander aimlessly, making sure to get enough res for what you're doing. These are basics that every commander should have preset. As to what strategy you use to win, that should be dependant on the situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing i have to learn is the abilities of my Marines...which ones are Veterans...which ones make good sargents...who is good with what weapon. Who has voice comm and can speak quickly and inteligently. Lot of things to factor in all at once.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With all this I tend to stay flexible and adaptive to what happens in game. I am also good at knowing when a game is unwinnable and now over. I can then tell this to my team to try and motivate them and kick em in the butt. Plus if they have any skill they will notice too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES!
The real strategy is learning to work with what you have.
Ratfire
I'm so tired of getting flamed by all the people who find one strategy and stick with it or die. I prefer variable tactics rather than timed and standardized exploitation of the unbalanced ones. Anyways, GG JP/HMCAL. You shot yourselves in the foot when you wouldn't try something new because you wanted to be #1.
-OldManRipper <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually.. jp/hmg isnt always used in clan match's... some hives/maps call for different strategys.... like Engine hive on bast: Siege the vent with mines and turrets placed through the wall from main. And FUsion hive on tanith: Send 5 people over to cargo set up cc/ip/tf/cargo rsr/upgrade tf/siege/siege/obs/mt. There are also shotgun rush's and grenade launcher push's... Dont think clans dont try other strats... they just use whats best depending on the situation. If one strat is viable and THE BEST choice for a current situation it will be used.