Upgrading The Maps
Hypno
Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13975Members
Join Date: 2003-02-25 Member: 13975Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The Ambience</div> I find that the only map that has the scary aliens are on the ship ambience and all is ns_bast but it fails on one point as on all other maps.
The walls and other small details that would create a good ambience
If there were aliens on the ship i doubt the marines just POP out of no where and appear in the ship i don't think so,the aliens should have at least ripped up the place abit like broken lights,blood stains on the walls or broken walls,scratch marks not just broken doors.
and you should try and make the marine spawns not to big like in caged and eclipse,i don't think that people would build ships with such roomy places.And add more detail on the maps like computers in labs(I'm sure nobody creates a space ship just for travel)
If nobody likes this idea don't flame just say not good and your reason
although if its a approved suggestion you don't need to apply it straight away you could do it version by version or in one version later on
The walls and other small details that would create a good ambience
If there were aliens on the ship i doubt the marines just POP out of no where and appear in the ship i don't think so,the aliens should have at least ripped up the place abit like broken lights,blood stains on the walls or broken walls,scratch marks not just broken doors.
and you should try and make the marine spawns not to big like in caged and eclipse,i don't think that people would build ships with such roomy places.And add more detail on the maps like computers in labs(I'm sure nobody creates a space ship just for travel)
If nobody likes this idea don't flame just say not good and your reason
although if its a approved suggestion you don't need to apply it straight away you could do it version by version or in one version later on
Comments
But I think the first try of a lot of maps was just to get things done.
With 1.1 on the way and maybe a lot more freelance maps/mappacks we'll see more "details" added.
You could consider the fact that maybe a lot of details were left out because the game is already very demanding as it is.
A lab full of computers would only mean more chances of HUGE fps drop.
Personally, a Mess Hall ripped up and bloody cuz they were having dinner JUST as the Kharaa had theirs would be awesome.
But the sterile enviroment is also part of it.
Marines arrive on board and it's DESERTED! Creepy stuff!
I like it but we have to see how it works out I guess.
Well, no gore. Again, the map submission guidelines tell that blood and gore does NOT have a place in NS, mappers adding dead bodies and blood are mentioned specifically.
I´m way for this!
When i remember the best Sci-fi `Horror´ game ever, System shock 2, it was great, death people lying around, bloody marks on the wall. And the overall scary sounds, the ship makes.
A hell of animated computers, danger signs ect.
everything just eyecandy and for the athmosphere.
And then the crazy computer saying things like : The next poetry reading will be at 17:00 in the main hall...
While you were fighting a bunch of Zombies/Aliens.
I don´t know a game with better athmosphere, even Avp 2 OR 2 DOESN´t match.
i don´t like really splatter or extremly horror, but i´m alwasy in if theres something scary.
just my 2 cents
there should be like some weapons found lying around and blood on the walls cause i don't think aliens lick the blood of the walls
there should be like some weapons found lying around and blood on the walls cause i don't think aliens lick the blood of the walls <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, take a look at this quote, from the official map submission guidelines:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Avoid Terror and Gore - Natural Selection is about lush, atmospheric sci-fi environments, cooperative strategy, and intense battles. It isn't about scaring the player or horrific environments. The aliens will still be scary, but very dark environments, flickering florescent lights, bodies slumped on rafters, and other staples of the horror genre don't help Natural Selection achieve its goals. Don't place dead colonists anywhere (slumped against walls, in piles, etc.). Pools of blood and dismemberment are also to be avoided. The game doesn't avoid blood and gore completely, but doesn't display lingering dead bodies and gibbed alien flesh. In fact, NS is less gory than Half-Life. This may seem like a senseless guideline, but it will help the game appeal to more people--hopefully resulting in more players, more add-ons, and a broader community.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no ship is deserted.. it needs to have a reason... and a few darker areas would help i think...
maybe no 'broken lights' but just more darkness.. nearly everywhere i go onboard a ship the room is well lit... it should have ALOT more dark corners etc... i mean not gore not more FPS droppers... but just lighting...
the very essence of Ambience is lighting... for e'g on hera.. in our main comm room.. just dim it by say 50% and the whole atmosphere gets alot more deserted ship like.. the open vent near the ceiling with it's glowing red flowing out... would make fro great atmospheric condiditons... so NO gore cos as the map thing says it isnt what NS is.. but i think more DARKNESS! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
DARKNESS FOR PREZIDENT!
Agree, and NS does that. Ever tried reading the athmosphere part of the mapping guidelines, and thinking about how much they're followed. To add an example, the hive areas are al broken and dirty, with broken pipes, steam and muddy water, while the marine parts are all clean and sterile. That's on purpose, to increase the feeling of territories.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->broken lights<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erhm, doesnt broken lights kinda make the map dark?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->signs of a previous struggle etc<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you make signs of struggle without gore, blood and dead bodies?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and a few darker areas would help i think<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever occured to you how increadibly frustrating dark areas are? Unless you jerk up gamma that is, which a lot of people wil do if you start making dark areas. Or I could put it another way, take a look at this quote, again from the map submission guidelines:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Strive to make the lighting feel dark without being dark. A near-dark corner or two is fine, but never make areas that are completely dark. This promotes replay and reduces general frustration. Use high contrast areas to promote a feeling of darkness. The env_gamma entity can increase the contrast of otherwise washed out maps.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making the game DARK and SMOKEY! Wit hflicking lights, broken elektronics, bloood gore, bodies, struggles, barricades...broken items...computervoices, labs, things that has been abandoned in haste, like people was take by surprise...
YEAH!
That's a problem.
Erhm, now we just have ONE little problem remaining:
Why would there be bullet holes and weapons lying around <u>before</u> the battle?
Yeah, I picked that up on that. But the guidelines are just that - guidelines. Why not take it further? It can be. Besides, my main concern doesn't lie with the spawn rooms - they're great. It's the no-man's land that could be a bit better.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Erhm, doesnt broken lights kinda make the map dark?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say all the lights. And it was just one example.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How would you make signs of struggle without gore, blood and dead bodies?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flickering/pulsing lights, collapsed passageways, bullet/scorchmarks on the walls and floor, equipment in dissaray, emergency lighting, flooded access tunnels, destroyed turrets, areas flooded with radiation...watch any Star Trek episode where some anomaly/microvirus/macrovirus takes over the ship. I'm not saying that the NS maps are lacking in atmosphere, but I don't feel like the Kharaa's emergence is an urgent matter. It looks like all base/ship personnel saw the hive and filed out in single line.
As for darkness - I'm against the overuse of that myself. (Just play the earlier betas of <i>Vampire Slayer</i>, it was a nightmare.)
Erhm, now we just have ONE little problem remaining:
Why would there be bullet holes and weapons lying around <u>before</u> the battle? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like was said before, signs of a previous struggle. True, the REAL battle hasn't happened yet, but the marines are there for a reason, right? That space station/ship/research facility wasn't just there, people built it and it was at one time occupied. The marines are there because of a distress signal/mysterious disappearance of the crew. I think deep scratch marks, bullet holes and broken/knocked over architechture would look great, and still avoid blood and gore.
It's their mod. I'm pretty sure I didn't see your name (or mine, or any of our names) on the dev team list. If you put years into developing a mod, and one of the smallest guidelines was "no gore please, that's not what NS is about", you'd expect people to follow. There are tons of other mods out there. If you want fear + gore, go play Vampire Slayer, if you want pure gore, go play Pirates, Vikings, and Knights. I know I may be flaming JUST a bit here, and I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see who you are to say that the NS dev team is wrong about ANYTHING.
Now, I agree, some claw marks, scorch marks would be cool. Maybe a scorch mark that runs the face of a computer bank and all the monitors are blown out. Those kinds of things work, and they fit the guidelines, but if other mappers are anything like me, they're more worried about staying within the proscribed w_poly count and fixing the leaks for now. Alot of people were rushing to include their maps for 1.1 playtesting, and didn't have time to create the custom textures that would be required.
As for lights being burned out, I made a huge room with 40+ "lights" in it, but only the ones I needed actually emitted any light. It gave a broken/burned out feel to some of them, and using the bare minimum added to the ambiance. I don't see how this goes against the mapping guidelines at all, so I'd say mappers: go for it.
In the map I'm making atm I planned carefully the layout so that you could belive that you really were on board an exploration ship not inside a map.
Breathe! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
One of the last edits Flay asked for in the revised Guidelines was the addition of a note to the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html#env_gamma' target='_blank'>env_gamma</a> entity:
<!--QuoteBegin--Mapping_Guidelines.html+April 14 2003, 1:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mapping_Guidelines.html @ April 14 2003, 1:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This entity is meant to enhance lighting, not replace it. Make sure your map isn't too dark to play with an env_gamma of 1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Biggest. Pet. Peeve. Ever.
No offense intended, but not all maps are going to be official, so a few custom maps with gore and such would be fine.
And before you copy your oh so loved faq to me, just remember that an unofficial map doesn't have to follow the rules completely as long as they realize that their map won't be official because of it.
I also avoid terror and gore and try to use other things to create more atmosphere.
Best thing for this is of course lighting.. and the use of particle systems in certain locations such as brocken pipes and so on.
I got a large room called "Foyer" ... here I have a table that's laying on the side.. both to provide cover and to make it seem there has something happended there before.
Broken lab equipment would be another possibility... or (when building a map placed on a space ship or station) make an area with escape pods... let's say there are 5 doors to the pods.. 4 have a sign/monitor stating "ejected" and the last on has some sparks and a sign/monitor "malfunction".
Such things would at least tell the player where some of the crew have gone.
just a quick thought anyway...
-my2cent-
Hyper
I think minimal gore SHOULD be implimented, just so that we can have an idea of what went on. I like the idea of a few maps being completely vacant, but lets say that one small group tried holding off the Khara with their minimal weapons locker, we could find, lets say, one shot gun, a couple lmgs and two packs of ammo spread out in a room, as significance of their attempt to hold the Kharra off. That and some MINIMAL blood streaks would be nice, I just wish they would allow it *Sigh*
No, but what sucks is when theres no need for Marines to ever use their flashlight. I wish they could implement a gamma limit in windows and what not so that marines didn't have like day light vision in all areas. I would love to have a few more dark areas.
that is like saying, "<i>why make a good map when players cheat?</i>" because not all players are lamos who do that. a lot of players do not increase the gamma to get an unfair advantage.