1.1 Marines Vs Aliens
Uproar
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9152Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9152Members
<div class="IPBDescription">updates and changes</div> I could be wrong, but it sounds like alot of what the marines got going for them is being nerfed with little improvement (electric tf) and the aliens are getting alot of improvements with little no or nerfs.
-Things like it takes longer for marines to get stronger (only being best at max level)
-Cost more for marines to do the things they used to be able to do
-Sieges being much less viable. (only 4 pings per obs) - which means it is more cost effective to just upgrade then to siege
-Better guns makes you even heavier
-Aliens get all evolutions
-Structures upgrade things in the area
-structures heal themselves
-multigorg now viable.
-gorg can now suck res out of res towers
etc
I am sure this was done to balance clan games. but will pubs go straight to hell? When beta testing, did they get noobs to test it? It is great if it is fun with advanced players, but is it fun with new players?
-Things like it takes longer for marines to get stronger (only being best at max level)
-Cost more for marines to do the things they used to be able to do
-Sieges being much less viable. (only 4 pings per obs) - which means it is more cost effective to just upgrade then to siege
-Better guns makes you even heavier
-Aliens get all evolutions
-Structures upgrade things in the area
-structures heal themselves
-multigorg now viable.
-gorg can now suck res out of res towers
etc
I am sure this was done to balance clan games. but will pubs go straight to hell? When beta testing, did they get noobs to test it? It is great if it is fun with advanced players, but is it fun with new players?
Comments
i see they are all justified. well mabye apart from the electric res <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
can that kill me before i finish chomping the tower ?
Alot of marine losses are due to not teching.
With hive lockdowns not really being viable anymore more comms will tech.
Umm. His comment applies to all people, not just newbies or 1-3-3-7 d00dz. It's a fact of life. You improve, or you lose. You find a flaw in a tactic, and you exploit it, or you lose. You fix a hole in your plan, or you lose. It's not about the level of skill - it's about constantly trying to improve the skills you already have. If you were to try the all-powerful "2 hive lockdown" now in 1.04, the aliens will laugh at you and kick your butt back to the dropship. "But it worked in 1.03! OMG this game is so unbalanced!!11 waaaa!!!1" is not going to get you anywhere in any game. The whole point of NS is to evolve new ways to try to win - I get my fun from trying new strats and such every game.
<b>It's not about balancing the game - It's about finding the balance in the game</b>
/falls over dead
can't leap past a turret farm? What a shame XD
Do all the cost reductions make marine tech up just as fast as they used to?
-Things like it takes longer for marines to get stronger (only being best at max level)
-Cost more for marines to do the things they used to be able to do
-Sieges being much less viable. (only 4 pings per obs) - which means it is more cost effective to just upgrade then to siege
-Better guns makes you even heavier
-Aliens get all evolutions
-Structures upgrade things in the area
-structures heal themselves
-multigorg now viable.
-gorg can now suck res out of res towers
etc
I am sure this was done to balance clan games. but will pubs go straight to hell? When beta testing, did they get noobs to test it? It is great if it is fun with advanced players, but is it fun with new players? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couple of things the aliens loose as well:
- no more overflow. This is huge, as it means you MUST use resource sucking to tech up quickly as an alien - you
can't just wait for the skulks to fill up to get loads and loads of res anymore.
- a resource sucking gorge is a net loss for the alien resource flow compared to a RT tower.
- Gorges costs 20 res (OTOH, starting at 25 res more than offsets this).
- Web is now a hive 3 ability (aka not in the game anymore)
- Bilebomb (which replaces the webs) no longer does any damage to marines. This means that hive 2 gorges is exactly as easy to kill for a knifing marine as a hive 1 gorge. In turn, this means that gorges are going to be extremly dependent on escorts or OC/DC the whole game. In 1.04, a hive 2 gorge is a very hard kill thanks to webbing/adrenaline.
Also, the shotgun, GL and HMG have all been upgraded (ROF, clipsize and accuracy, respectivly). Shotgun rushing would seem to be easier now (though having to buy an upgrade to start dropping medpacks will perhaps offset this a bit).
Mines seems to be completly overpowered, now that nothing apart from an alien touching them will set them off.
All in all, the changes are too big to make any predictions about balance.
It will be interesting to follow the changelogs though.
Umm. His comment applies to all people, not just newbies or 1-3-3-7 d00dz. It's a fact of life. You improve, or you lose. You find a flaw in a tactic, and you exploit it, or you lose. You fix a hole in your plan, or you lose. It's not about the level of skill - it's about constantly trying to improve the skills you already have. If you were to try the all-powerful "2 hive lockdown" now in 1.04, the aliens will laugh at you and kick your butt back to the dropship. "But it worked in 1.03! OMG this game is so unbalanced!!11 waaaa!!!1" is not going to get you anywhere in any game. The whole point of NS is to evolve new ways to try to win - I get my fun from trying new strats and such every game.
<b>It's not about balancing the game - It's about finding the balance in the game</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
much love to Wheeee
but yeah like khaim said, the marines wernt purely nerfed as everyone seems to think. They had some upgrades as well.
lagger hive build time is still 3mins
Nothing... That is the kind of teamwork that is encouraged.
Another note: You guys seem to be worried that the marines have trouble upgrading & teching. I don't have figures for you, but let me say that the resources come in a lot faster than 1.04. I commed last night and I had more money that I could handle with just 3 nodes.
Ergo, web is now no longer part of the (deciding part of the) game. *sniff*
Granted, hive 2 aliens were too powerful in 1.04, but being a battle gorge will no longer be possible in 1.1. The gorge is firmly relegated to support/victim in 1.1.
That's doesn't sound good .. that would mean that the marines would have a fixed tech-rate, only determined by how long time it takes to build the buildings and doing the research. Ergo, the aliens would have no way of choking marine teching up by fighting for the res...
Could be that this is intentional, that the commander NEEDS to drop early shotguns to keep back the aliens... hard to say without testing.
Yeah, we've relocated in plenty of games that I've played in.
I heard the techtree of the marines is changing to give the marines a LOT of diversity. This might make decisions harder for an average comm, but by taking away the possibilities of cheese-pub-strats (lockdown), they'll have more chances to experiment and thus learn other methods of playing.
neg, lagger and I just timed it and it took 3:45 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
gorg: hmm I'm gonna be here for a while
*schlomp* (cloaks from upgrade while building)
gorg happily starts building, drop's some oc's, reschambs and stuff
marine peeks around the corner
marine:nothing here boss
gorg uncloaks by a bile bomb
marine: ha easy target *jumps in the room
oc's uncloak, marine dies
I guess btw that the aliens get a new strat to, don't kill the tf first, KILL THE OBS
sorry but i havnt seen anything new ability's caue i dont go on these forems much <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted, compared to the SC in 1.04, the SC in 1.1 sounds much more powerful. A pity it still seems to lack any
kind of upgrade that would help in attacking fortified marine positions, as well as anything that would help against MT - the major reasons why it's always chosen last in 1.04.
SC still sounds like it's something choosen for fun or a change of pace, not as a really viable winning strat. As such, I don't expect gorges building sensories to be very popular.
What I'd like to see is MT not showing anything moving inside a range[1] from a sensory chamber, as well as a Blur upgrade - 10/20/30% of all shots[2] fired miss. That should make sensory a good contender for the whole game, as Blur would allow you to attack and MT negation would allow you to hide strategic and tactical movements from the marines.
[1] exact range to be determined - start with siege range and adjust downwards if necessary. Minimum range would be the cloaking range.
[2] note weakness against grenades and mines
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Granted, compared to the SC in 1.04, the SC in 1.1 sounds much more powerful. A pity it still seems to lack any
kind of upgrade that would help in attacking fortified marine positions, as well as anything that would help against MT - the major reasons why it's always chosen last in 1.04.
SC still sounds like it's something choosen for fun or a change of pace, not as a really viable winning strat. As such, I don't expect gorges building sensories to be very popular.
What I'd like to see is MT not showing anything moving inside a range[1] from a sensory chamber, as well as a Blur upgrade - 10/20/30% of all shots[2] fired miss. That should make sensory a good contender for the whole game, as Blur would allow you to attack and MT negation would allow you to hide strategic and tactical movements from the marines.
[1] exact range to be determined - start with siege range and adjust downwards if necessary. Minimum range would be the cloaking range.
[2] note weakness against grenades and mines<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Blur? Heck no. Can we say "Carapace in disguise except healing back to full is faster?"
MY not showing anything in side a range from a sensory? Yeah right...makes MT obsolete. The fact that you can do anything and still be perma-cloaked 100% while within the range of a sensory chamber (which is itself cloaked I think) is already ridiculously good (uber hive defense). If the aliens have movements also then aliens with silence and is near a sensory will be completely GOD-LIKE.