About 1.1 Mines

Jim_has_Skillz · May 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">How do they exactly work?</div> I was wondering specifically how the v1.1 mines work. I heard they were proximity triggered now. If they are, won't this affect a lot of the gameplay, I mean, if someone put 20 mines on a door and a skulk jumped through it to disable all of them, wouldn't this be a little cheap and ineffective for a mine? If I am wrong plz tell me cuz this is what I have heard so far regarding the mines.

Marik_Steele · May 2003

Proximity only. At the moment, triggering one won't explode the others in a change reaction. Note that all of the above may or may not change for reasons I can't forsee.

Martigen · May 2003

Yeah, there are no more laser sights and they can't be prematurely detonated. However the proximity range is quite close, you practically have to be on top of them. Skulks can leap over them. Mines placed on walls are currently useless. However, as they can no longer be prematurely detonated this allows for 'mine stacking' where you place a whole wad on the floor of, say, a doorway. Skulks may be able to leap over them, but Onos can't, and with damage upgrades a mine stack can take out an incoming Onos. This is, obviously, quite worth the expense <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Mart

michaeltoe · May 2003

I had no problems with the old mine style, it's just the fact that they were so easy to see. I think the lasers should of been less obvious, or only visible under certain conditions or something.

Drewbar99 · May 2003

This is true, but the mines for 1.1 if they r proxy activated, means that u can hide the mines more effectivley resulting in some hilarious frags. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Exploding-Man · May 2003

Id like to see mines with remotes (IE: Half-Life satchels) Or grenades of some sort. This of course wont happen and I will be called a stupid n00b for saying so, but hey, its my opinion.

Sirus · May 2003

Maybe, but I think it would have devastating power in large numbers of charges.

Spazmatic · May 2003

Mines are evil! Think of the civilians! Some poor scientist is going to come around, doing research on those pesky Khaara bacteria... And then they'll see the mine. And say, "Wow, what's that?" They'll pick it up, and lose a leg! Mines should be banned! Inhumane! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

MagiTek · May 2003

I'm a little concerned about mine spamming being overpowered in 1.1, especially early in the game. Offensive mining (building an armory close to the enemy, dropping 4+ packs of mines, then sieging) is a very potent strategy in 1.04. In wide open rooms (cargo bay in tanith comes to mind) covering the floor in mines can make it incredibly difficult for skulks to kill a squad of marines, or even <u><i>a</u></i> marine.

I see gorge spit as an ideal counter for mines. It provides the aliens a way to disable mines early in the game, yet exposes the gorge to hostile fire and requires precise aim. It encourages the other aliens to work as a team and cover the gorge as he acts as a minesweeper. It allows the aliens an advantage against offensive mining (the gorge can spit a few mines, run around the corner and heal at the hive, repeat) yet cannot be used against defensive mines unless the gorge takes the high risk of moving behind enemy lines. It's simply very balanced.

I felt I should post about this after reading Stoneburg's excellent game writeup (<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=32203' target='_blank'>here</a>). The round would have probably ended very early had there been no early counter to mines.

im_lost · May 2003

Is it really that easy to shoot mines as a gorge? I don't know one way or the other, I am just asking.

Exploding-Man · May 2003

Well a later counter would be Babblers...

MagiTek · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ May 20 2003, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Is it really that easy to shoot mines as a gorge?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It's not very easy. The mine hitbox is kind of buggy, floating above the mine itself. At long range hitting it requires good aim. It's a lot better than nothing, though.

And if late-game mine spamming cheese proves to be a problem, Acid Rocket could just be tweaked to function as it does in 1.04 against mines. It IS a third-hive ability, after all.

Afr · May 2003

Does spit trigger the mine? The spit is solid and as an alien u can stand on it if u get ur timing right

And as someone said " Well a later counter would be Babblers... " there are no babblers in 1.1

RyoOhki · May 2003

Whilst I like no lasers being visable I would like to suggest a small modification to that. What if when an umbra or sporecloud was triggered near some mines the lasers became visable? Kinda like spraying an areosol mist near a bank vault door to detect invisible lasers. It might add a little more diversity to the mines and prevent them from being a little too uber. Lerks would also perhaps be known as "minesweepers" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Geronimo · May 2003

MInes are suppoes to be traps right? Why not dsisable the laser and keep the beam type of explosion? Make it visible with the pheromones uppgrade or something...

Damage need to be upped, qas well as the price ..to make them less of a owner early and maore viable lategame...

neonfaktory · May 2003

If I'm understanding this... Wall mines act as ground mines, but on the wall?

I personally always wished wall mines would act just as they do now (with the laser trip), but the laser only visible in certain circumstances, as someone just suggested. I really like Ryo's idea, and perhaps one fo the sensory visual upgrades could make them visible. That would be my ideal system.

ricHARDnixON · May 2003

What if parasite and umbra (or even just one or the other) temporarily diabled a mine, like for only 2 or 3 seconds, and then it was back on? If both, then maybe a min ewouldn't detonate as long as it was in an umbra. If parasite turned a mine off for even just a second, a small team of extremely skilld skiuls could get in a mine-spammed base... but it wouls still be hard.... and you HAVE to keep the chain reaction bit. Otherwise it's impossible to suicide a mine spam.

Maus · May 2003

It's a shame to hear the laser lines are no more. They always looked very cool.

KhazModan · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Martigen @ May 19 2003, 10:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, there are no more laser sights and they can't be prematurely detonated. However the proximity range is quite close, you practically have to be on top of them. Skulks can leap over them. Mines placed on walls are currently useless. However, as they can no longer be prematurely detonated this allows for 'mine stacking' where you place a whole wad on the floor of, say, a doorway. Skulks may be able to leap over them, but Onos can't, and with damage upgrades a mine stack can take out an incoming Onos. This is, obviously, quite worth the expense <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Mart  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
FADE and acid spam the mines no more mines, no more marine (if they were close by)

Cowswin · May 2003

Mines lasers and the chain reactions were fine when in 1.04 because fades didn't come until the second hive. Now you can get fades first hive (although they no longer have acid ball until 3rd) but gorges are more common and spit more viable. Taking out the ranged detection-explosion system is neccesary to balance out the mines and make them more balanced if they are no longer going to chain react and the damage is going to upped. If you had invisible mine lasers (or even with upgrades) it would lead to a large amount of exploitation with mines being layed in areas where alien couldn't see but the lasers pointing down or in such a direction as the alien would actually have to pass THROUGH the lasers before they even saw the mines.

Making it so one alien upgrade ability saw the mine lasers would make yet another version of NS where it was REQUIRED to get one type of upgrade at the first hive or face the wrath of invisible death.

My speculation tells me that it's fine the way it was changed to. Someone thought it out <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

J2pc · May 2003

at least mines will be viable late-game, no more "fades r here, stay clear of the mines"

Nemesis_Zero · May 2003

Mines are currently subject to quite a lot of discussion in the private forums. I guess they'll experience a change or two shortly.

Link · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ May 20 2003, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ...And then they'll see the mine. And say, "Wow, what's that?" They'll pick it up, and lose a leg!...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Only if they pick it up with their foot....

tjosan · May 2003

Just something that came to mind when reading Nem's post about discussions on the private forums:

At the moment there are almost no new posts on the beta-discussion forums, as the natural place for playtesters and veterans to post is on the private forums. What about opening these for the public with posting rights only to playtesters and above? That way people will have the opportunity to see what's going on in a much better way and the advantages the veterans have over the other clanners might decrease slightly (which should be something to strive for).

About the topic... not much to say except that I've been thinking about it too. Did I misinterpet something or does mines work the same in casual and tournament mode? I've always found casual-mode mines a bit too useful.

Eshock · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ May 20 2003, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I've always found casual-mode mines a bit too useful.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And tournament-mode mines almost useless.

tjosan · May 2003

Not completely worthless <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

There is one pro: you automagically kill the skulk(s) if they step on one mine.

If placed correctly (have to be a wall or something between the two "waves") it works really well. Like in Docking Hydraulics on ns_bast.

Nemesis_Zero · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ May 20 2003, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> At the moment there are almost no new posts on the beta-discussion forums, as the natural place for playtesters and veterans to post is on the private forums. What about opening these for the public with posting rights only to playtesters and above? That way people will have the opportunity to see what's going on in a much better way and the advantages the veterans have over the other clanners might decrease slightly (which should be something to strive for).  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Actually, the mine topic is the only other gameplay-concerning topic in the PT forum right now. The rest consists of bravado, time managment, and Grendel yelling at us.

It's quite natural for a few threads accumulating the vast feedback of a week, and the discussions then moving to IRC (which we won't make public, thank you) until next weekend, when they result in new threads.

tjosan · May 2003

Well then I guess there's no problem <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Saves you time as well, since you'll have one less forum to moderate

darnit, always IRC... ruining the fun for all :O

Forlorn · May 2003

Mines also cost 10 res now, it's not exactly easy to "spam" them...

Diablus · May 2003

oh great, appears Natural-Selection is gonna be a boyscout camping trip for marines, Mines should start comming with a tent, campfire and marshmellows too....

Diablus · May 2003

oh wait my bad proximity means triggered when hit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> my bad =p thought they were remotly, yes now you can make fun of me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

About 1.1 Mines

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