I don't get what you guys are talking about. I know it's near impossible to kill a Marine in a vent (I always forget to aim down in my panic =P), but if he's just crouching on the ground with a bunch of free open space, like in Viaduct, I can just pounce on top of him and shred him. If the hitbox goes under, why can I kill when I'm biting his head? It's the feet that are the problem, when I run up a ladder or wall, and a Marine is blocking it. I bite and bite his feet, last time at least 4 times, but I can't seem to EVER take them out by their feet. O | | -|- | | ^ |_| That should be the hitbox, right? so, if the Marine crouches...
O ^ | | | | It should be something like that, right? But if I can still kill him on the top of his head... what does <b>that</b> mean? And, if they're in an open vent that you can go under, you can just bite the bottom of where he's standing to kill him, right? =\ I'm confused.
I didn't know there was a crouch bug until the other day when someone whined at me on a public server.
Anyway, I crouch not because it makes you more accurate, but because when fighting an alien that isn't jumping all over the place, you only have to track it horizontally, not vertically as well.
I normally play aliens tho <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
the crouch glitch is actually pretty good, it makes your team more motivated to get lerks and fades so you cant exploit those <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> and it is kind of a safe spot for marines since there is no safe spot (ie cant stay in base or a mine/turreted area) they will get you there no matter how dug in you are <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I got kicked today for moving from sewer to atmospheric processing through the vents, when 2 skulks showed up. Jesus, I'm not going around just to <i>not</i> crouch.
similar to this topic, a skulk cannot bite a standing marine's feet or head, if the skulk is directly below or above the marine (well the skulk can, but the marine won't take any damage). i.e. a marine is on a ladder and the skulk runs up the ladder and trys to bite marine's feet off.
I feel like this is some sort of glitch in the game. And i hope this gets addressed in 1.1
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited May 2003
All right. Let me explain, as has been done before but apparently was not read, or was forgotten.
Yes, there is a hitbox bug. Yes, it is an exploit as it is a <b>bug</b>. Same as using /stuck to get through a window/wall/door, or building through level geometry. Same as bunnyhopping, silent-bunnyhopping, super-fast-reloading, pistolscripting, and the FPS-related bugs. The devs are human, and bugs persist.
One of these comes into play and meshes with the hitbox bug. It involves the wallwalk code, and how hits are detected using the melee system. When you are wallwalking, your bite is raised by a certain number of units in-game. IIRC, unless you use crouch to disable wallwalk mode, you are wallwalking whenever you are within 16 units of a surface. Vents are 32x32 units (again, IIRC). Anyone see the problem with this? You're always wallwalking while in a vent as a Skulk, unless you hold crouch. Crouched Marine hitboxes DO drop through the floor. So crouch and aim at their thighs, and you'll hit them in a vent. In addition, with the raised firing-point, unless you aim VERY low, you'll likely hit the top of the vent before having a chance to get anywhere _near_ the marine, aborting your attack as having hit level geometry. You can't hit the boxes from the underside of a free-hanging vent because HL scans, sees that there is level geometry between you and the Marine, and counts it as a non-hit, having hit the wall.
Free Combat. Marines ALSO trigger the wallwalk code. Yes, you can walk on a Marine. This is a bad thing, as it STILL does the unit-raise, quite unexpectedly at times. So you miss when you go to chomp the crouched Marine, kick into wallwalk mode upon coming too close, and your attack*whooshes* over his head box.
Marines on Ladders/Headbites. Again, you can walk on Marines. If you land on their head, you're walking on 'em, and your attack gets jerked up THROUGH your body, and you miss their hitboxes as you're biting roughly from where your rump would be. If you're going for their feet (presumably on the ladder) your attack is raised, and originates *inside* their hitboxes, going outward.. which is not checked (again, IIRC) and counts as a non-hit. Tip: If they're on a ladder, go up the wall <b>beside</b> them.. parallel. Aim for the thighs, and you should hit. If they're crouched on the ladder, aim at or below their feet. But DO NOT GO STRAIGHT FOR THEM, or you will miss.
In other news, I'm waiting to see if v1.1 actually will fix all these irksome bits so we can get back to playing the game, and stop complaining one way or the other about whether taking advantage of an unintended feature of the game is cheating or not. The Devs have the final word. And they will lay it down as they see fit, regardless of how many people who lose their pet cheat whine and complain about how it's a valid tactic. If the Devs kick it out, it's not supposed to be there.
<!--QuoteBegin--Daemonlaud+May 14 2003, 04:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daemonlaud @ May 14 2003, 04:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Firstly, how can anything obviously universally present in the game code be construed as a cheat? It is cheating when you can no longer perform it in an unmodified version of the game, and not before. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I assume you are talking about bunny-hopping since the crouch bug is a model problem, not a coding problem. Well, I gather the best answer regarding bunnyjumping can be found at the source, the man who originally programmed the engine.
<a href='http://finger.planetquake.com/plan.asp?userid=johnc&id=12357' target='_blank'>PlanetQuake Finger Archive: John Carmack, june 3rd, 1999.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Strafe jumping is an exploitable bug. Just because people have practiced hard to allow themselves to take advantage of it does not justify it's existance. When I tried fixing the code so that it just didn't work, I thought it changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way.
In the absense of powerups or level features (wind tunnels, jump pads, etc), the game characters are supposed to be badasses with big guns. Arnold Schwartzenegger and Sigourney Weaver don't get down a hallway by hopping like a bunny rabbit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
If the hitbox goes under, why can I kill when I'm biting his head?
It's the feet that are the problem, when I run up a ladder or wall, and a Marine is blocking it. I bite and bite his feet, last time at least 4 times, but I can't seem to EVER take them out by their feet.
O | |
-|- | |
^ |_| That should be the hitbox, right? so, if the Marine crouches...
O
^ | |
| | It should be something like that, right? But if I can still kill him on the top of his head... what does <b>that</b> mean? And, if they're in an open vent that you can go under, you can just bite the bottom of where he's standing to kill him, right? =\ I'm confused.
Anyway, I crouch not because it makes you more accurate, but because when fighting an alien that isn't jumping all over the place, you only have to track it horizontally, not vertically as well.
I normally play aliens tho <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I feel like this is some sort of glitch in the game. And i hope this gets addressed in 1.1
Yes, there is a hitbox bug. Yes, it is an exploit as it is a <b>bug</b>. Same as using /stuck to get through a window/wall/door, or building through level geometry. Same as bunnyhopping, silent-bunnyhopping, super-fast-reloading, pistolscripting, and the FPS-related bugs. The devs are human, and bugs persist.
One of these comes into play and meshes with the hitbox bug. It involves the wallwalk code, and how hits are detected using the melee system.
When you are wallwalking, your bite is raised by a certain number of units in-game.
IIRC, unless you use crouch to disable wallwalk mode, you are wallwalking whenever you are within 16 units of a surface.
Vents are 32x32 units (again, IIRC). Anyone see the problem with this? You're always wallwalking while in a vent as a Skulk, unless you hold crouch.
Crouched Marine hitboxes DO drop through the floor. So crouch and aim at their thighs, and you'll hit them in a vent.
In addition, with the raised firing-point, unless you aim VERY low, you'll likely hit the top of the vent before having a chance to get anywhere _near_ the marine, aborting your attack as having hit level geometry.
You can't hit the boxes from the underside of a free-hanging vent because HL scans, sees that there is level geometry between you and the Marine, and counts it as a non-hit, having hit the wall.
Free Combat.
Marines ALSO trigger the wallwalk code. Yes, you can walk on a Marine. This is a bad thing, as it STILL does the unit-raise, quite unexpectedly at times. So you miss when you go to chomp the crouched Marine, kick into wallwalk mode upon coming too close, and your attack*whooshes* over his head box.
Marines on Ladders/Headbites.
Again, you can walk on Marines. If you land on their head, you're walking on 'em, and your attack gets jerked up THROUGH your body, and you miss their hitboxes as you're biting roughly from where your rump would be. If you're going for their feet (presumably on the ladder) your attack is raised, and originates *inside* their hitboxes, going outward.. which is not checked (again, IIRC) and counts as a non-hit.
Tip: If they're on a ladder, go up the wall <b>beside</b> them.. parallel. Aim for the thighs, and you should hit. If they're crouched on the ladder, aim at or below their feet. But DO NOT GO STRAIGHT FOR THEM, or you will miss.
In other news, I'm waiting to see if v1.1 actually will fix all these irksome bits so we can get back to playing the game, and stop complaining one way or the other about whether taking advantage of an unintended feature of the game is cheating or not. The Devs have the final word. And they will lay it down as they see fit, regardless of how many people who lose their pet cheat whine and complain about how it's a valid tactic. If the Devs kick it out, it's not supposed to be there.
Adapt.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assume you are talking about bunny-hopping since the crouch bug is a model problem, not a coding problem. Well, I gather the best answer regarding bunnyjumping can be found at the source, the man who originally programmed the engine.
<a href='http://finger.planetquake.com/plan.asp?userid=johnc&id=12357' target='_blank'>PlanetQuake Finger Archive: John Carmack, june 3rd, 1999.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Strafe jumping is an exploitable bug. Just because people have practiced
hard to allow themselves to take advantage of it does not justify it's
existance. When I tried fixing the code so that it just didn't work, I
thought it changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way.
In the absense of powerups or level features (wind tunnels, jump pads, etc),
the game characters are supposed to be badasses with big guns. Arnold
Schwartzenegger and Sigourney Weaver don't get down a hallway by hopping
like a bunny rabbit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->