Hl2 Ai
<div class="IPBDescription">good or bad</div> For those of you who took the time to download the 587 mb 24 min E3 video you were probabably drooling over the keyboard in anticipation.
"The AI are not scripted they will advance accordingly with you to your best advantage to help you" or something like that.
Im referring to the city street fight with what appears to be you (freeman) and Barney and his squad of white shirted buddies.
yes, yes this all seems very nice. AI that actualy thinks and responds. Weve all heard this before.
(Think of MOHAA German guards shooting over the tops of desks and sticking their guns around corners, or RTCW guards kicking grenades back at you.) Or any other game for that matter.
When Freeman blocks the door with the table, one marine peeks in the window and sprays the room with lead while his buddy kicks the door in. team work? yea, good AI, maybe.
Now cut to later in the film, when Gordon is throwing the phermone packs at the soldiers. Or later on when the white suited soldiers run from then, try to take on the 10 story striders.
In both cases they just stop where they are and shoot. And thats it. Now you can make the arguement that the marines where surrounded in a little room against a pack or those LionAnts, but really notice how the marine (after losing his buddy) just stands there and shoots like the aliens is 10 miles away.
If I were him ( being the most bravest marine or not) would have at least tried to dive out of the way or maybe go so far as to step back or *gasp crouch. I dont know lol I would have done SOMETHING to at least TRY to get out of the way lol.
In the town with the striders at the end, there is a tiggered event where the white suits run back torwards you away from the Striders. Once they turn to fight it would seem their great AI ends. Instead of even trying to take cover anywere, they proceed to stand right out in the open in the middle of the street where most of them are one by one picked off. One guy just stands there burst fireing his gun all alone by himself very futilely in the wide open. When the Strider starts to charge his big cannon thingy, he just stands there an takes it like a moron. (If he was gonna just stand there i would have made him kind of look away and cringe, maybe put his hand up to his face b/c he knows hes gonna get it lol)
Now I know im probably being nit picky and Im still gonna buy this game no matter what. but is the AI really gonna be as as good as its hyped up to be? Its probably gonna be really good but nothing totataly awsome quite yet.
Your thoughts and opionions please.
"The AI are not scripted they will advance accordingly with you to your best advantage to help you" or something like that.
Im referring to the city street fight with what appears to be you (freeman) and Barney and his squad of white shirted buddies.
yes, yes this all seems very nice. AI that actualy thinks and responds. Weve all heard this before.
(Think of MOHAA German guards shooting over the tops of desks and sticking their guns around corners, or RTCW guards kicking grenades back at you.) Or any other game for that matter.
When Freeman blocks the door with the table, one marine peeks in the window and sprays the room with lead while his buddy kicks the door in. team work? yea, good AI, maybe.
Now cut to later in the film, when Gordon is throwing the phermone packs at the soldiers. Or later on when the white suited soldiers run from then, try to take on the 10 story striders.
In both cases they just stop where they are and shoot. And thats it. Now you can make the arguement that the marines where surrounded in a little room against a pack or those LionAnts, but really notice how the marine (after losing his buddy) just stands there and shoots like the aliens is 10 miles away.
If I were him ( being the most bravest marine or not) would have at least tried to dive out of the way or maybe go so far as to step back or *gasp crouch. I dont know lol I would have done SOMETHING to at least TRY to get out of the way lol.
In the town with the striders at the end, there is a tiggered event where the white suits run back torwards you away from the Striders. Once they turn to fight it would seem their great AI ends. Instead of even trying to take cover anywere, they proceed to stand right out in the open in the middle of the street where most of them are one by one picked off. One guy just stands there burst fireing his gun all alone by himself very futilely in the wide open. When the Strider starts to charge his big cannon thingy, he just stands there an takes it like a moron. (If he was gonna just stand there i would have made him kind of look away and cringe, maybe put his hand up to his face b/c he knows hes gonna get it lol)
Now I know im probably being nit picky and Im still gonna buy this game no matter what. but is the AI really gonna be as as good as its hyped up to be? Its probably gonna be really good but nothing totataly awsome quite yet.
Your thoughts and opionions please.
Comments
The E3 movies are taken from a proof of context demo that was made over a year ago! Thats like a year and a half before release to work on the AI and misc. bugs. I have faith that valve will make an awsome game and just think on this:
HL's AI is still better then some recently released games *cough*<u>RTCW</u>*cough*
:edit!: contest?
They need to somehow make it so that characters reload while they try to move away, or try to run to a safe spot before they reload. That solves the "pause" problem.
Any soldier with any kind of firearms training wouldn't circle strafe. They don't do that in game because it wouldn't seem believable. Now, as for desperate situations, seeing AI that could panic or "go rambo" would be very cool. More mobility in general would be nice as well, but I'm sure that's hard to code.
If a few allies get killed nearby he goes rambo out of rage.
Just set some variables.
*Prays for it to happen*
I downloaded the 600meg version on 56k. It took me four days.
It was all worth it just to hear the millitia screaming "GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!"
--Scythe--
*respect*
About 2 minutes before the strider scene the guy says none of it is scripted.
Sorry, brother's major was AI, I get to be nitpicky.
Still even if its still cool.
Sorry, brother's major was AI, I get to be nitpicky. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... Could very well be that they have a radius set to stay close to you, the player, and advance within that area as you move. That would appear to be script like, if you always moved, but would in fact be AI. Triggers do not equal scripts. Scripts are more like a railroad, or more appropriately, a rube-goldburg contraption, when it comes to games... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've never known anyone from Valve to simply out and out lie, so I'm confident in their claims.
(edit: this means mirrors, but not fileshack or some other fileplanet-replica)
For one, notice that in the boardwalk ocean scene with the crows and headcrab zombies, when Gordon falls into the water he does not create any splash ripples, yet everything else in the HL2 environment can <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> You can also see this in the shader demo with the Gman standing on the post and the camera, when gordon wades his way thought he water he does no create any ripples. Same with the headcrab that knock over the camera stand, he too does not create water ripples.
Second, In the street scene with barney in it notice just after Gordon enters the rubble building, when the Second white shirt Friend of Gordon walks in his shadow shows on the other side of the doorway before he is even through it!!!
In the scene showing the shaders of HL2 in the source engine notice how the fire surrounding the human made from fire does not flicker light on the surrounding walls, there is only simply an orange light!
Also notice just as the shader demo starts when gordon looks up there is a section of wood that has overlapping flickering textures, as seen in the beams in the archiving hive of NS_Hera.
Eh, no scripted sequences my ****, in the shader demo notice how the headcrab leaps at the camera stand and doesn't attack gordon?!!! Don't tell me that headcrab was not scripted to knock over that stand and only that stand! The only thing I could think is something way back bases on the marathon engine, where you could tell a certain entity(in this case a headcrab) that its current enemy is the camera stand entity and the headcrab would treat the stand as if it were its enemy. I dunno..
Another question, why can for instance a swinging metal beam cause an enemy to bleed while a grenade thrown beneath their feet simply toss them about. According to the Gunship video circulating around the web, people really do explode into little meaty chunks. The same question goes to why the grunts did not bleed when the ant-lions killed them. I was wondering how a small blow only sending them a few feet down to the ground would kill them. I would have been satisfied if their were blood. Also you would think in all its mass that the some objects as heavy as they are would actually cause cuts or rips in the flesh. Why can a spinning metal piece chop a headcrab zombie in half yet the sharp edges of a heater as shown being thrown violently at the alien atop the stairs not cause blood to spit out. Cmon, a metal old fashioned heater being thrown at like 3 gforces and at about 70mph is not gonna make you bleed? Same goes with why didn't the one alien bleed after falling from like 4 stories in the barney street scene?
Ah another bug, Notice the spinning metal blade that chops the zombies, well OMG, the pipe connecting to the blade is not casting a shadow resulting in what looks like a floating metal blade!
In the demo showing the dune buggy just after the buggy jumps through the window you notice how the buggy seems to hit something sharp and has to quickly back up to make that issue go unnoticed. Heh, guess what that was, a piece of sharp dirt terrain sticking out of the road and apparently the buggy can't conform to all terrain if its angle is too sharp, and instead treats it as a wall. DOH!
In that same demo I noticed an old HL vanilla bug, Notice how when the alien aircraft fires it gun the impact sparks can be seen through models. Another Doh!
Anyone else notice the flying rock in the strider video that seems to hit gordon but goes right through him and doesn't hurt him, Triple Doh!
In the strider scene, notice that the strider takes out the overpass with ts lazer right? Well then notice a few seconds later when it tries to explode it more with a its secondary machine gun blast. Guess what, the machine gun blast does absolutely nothing besides making a small flame..meaning.. The maps are all rigged <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So that wonderful crate shot where gordon throws the grenade under and the crate falls on the grunts is rigged sadly. The overpass in the strider demo was only meant to be a onetime explode sequence and attempting to destroy it further is not possible, and what people think is almosta geo-mod technology in HL2 have been mistaken. It is a lie to say that all of HL2 environments are interactive. If it was truly interactive then I could shoot a rocket launcher into the side of a building and make a hole in it, which I doubt will be possible in HL2.
Noe that is being nit picky but I guarantee you too will see every instance I speak of if you watch the movie again <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, that's lame. I bet it'll be added, if not, VALvE's blind.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Second, In the street scene with barney in it notice just after Gordon enters the rubble building, when the Second white shirt Friend of Gordon walks in his shadow shows on the other side of the doorway before he is even through it!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the scene showing the shaders of HL2 in the source engine notice how the fire surrounding the human made from fire does not flicker light on the surrounding walls, there is only simply an orange light!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Fire's constant I guess.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also notice just as the shader demo starts when gordon looks up there is a section of wood that has overlapping flickering textures, as seen in the beams in the archiving hive of NS_Hera.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll have to check this!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eh, no scripted sequences my ****, in the shader demo notice how the headcrab leaps at the camera stand and doesn't attack gordon?!!! Don't tell me that headcrab was not scripted to knock over that stand and only that stand! The only thing I could think is something way back bases on the marathon engine, where you could tell a certain entity(in this case a headcrab) that its current enemy is the camera stand entity and the headcrab would treat the stand as if it were its enemy. I dunno..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When the Headcrab hits the Tripod, it dies, I think you can see it dead on the ground.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can a spinning metal piece chop a headcrab zombie in half yet the sharp edges of a heater as shown being thrown violently at the alien atop the stairs not cause blood to spit out.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe because that spinning metal piece it a Helicopter Rotar?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cmon, a metal old fashioned heater being thrown at like 3 gforces and at about 70mph is not gonna make you bleed? Same goes with why didn't the one alien bleed after falling from like 4 stories in the barney street scene?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a radiator, and it's rounded. It'd probably make him bleed but it could have just crushed him.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ah another bug, Notice the spinning metal blade that chops the zombies, well OMG, the pipe connecting to the blade is not casting a shadow resulting in what looks like a floating metal blade!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the demo showing the dune buggy just after the buggy jumps through the window you notice how the buggy seems to hit something sharp and has to quickly back up to make that issue go unnoticed. Heh, guess what that was, a piece of sharp dirt terrain sticking out of the road and apparently the buggy can't conform to all terrain if its angle is too sharp, and instead treats it as a wall. DOH!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol Cool, I'll have to see.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In that same demo I noticed an old HL vanilla bug, Notice how when the alien aircraft fires it gun the impact sparks can be seen through models. Another Doh!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I was **** at that too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone else notice the flying rock in the strider video that seems to hit gordon but goes right through him and doesn't hurt him, Triple Doh!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flying rock? What?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the strider scene, notice that the strider takes out the overpass with ts lazer right? Well then notice a few seconds later when it tries to explode it more with a its secondary machine gun blast. Guess what, the machine gun blast does absolutely nothing besides making a small flame..meaning.. The maps are all rigged <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So that wonderful crate shot where gordon throws the grenade under and the crate falls on the grunts is rigged sadly. The overpass in the strider demo was only meant to be a onetime explode sequence and attempting to destroy it further is not possible, and what people think is almosta geo-mod technology in HL2 have been mistaken. It is a lie to say that all of HL2 environments are interactive. If it was truly interactive then I could shoot a rocket launcher into the side of a building and make a hole in it, which I doubt will be possible in HL2.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the Overpass is destroyable(Like many things in the game) like the Dumpster on the roof, they're basicly "Set Up". If you could have a TRUELY interactive World, blowing WHATEVER you want up... Kiss you computer's *** goodbye because NOTHING would run and Engine like that. I guess you don't know about restrictions and sales. Having a game like that would not sell because NO ONE could support it.
I was going to say that having certain things "set up," ie func_breakables, isn't really "scripting" an event, it's just allowing it to happen.
ummm that was a demo of the engine... not gameplay....
for instance, the wooden planks gordon hits with the crowbar break easily, but the widd&stucco walls where the guy is doing the window thing are invincible.
an engine that allows everything to be broken would not be great for gameplay, because i would carry my RPG and skip big chunks of levels by blowing down buildings! its jsut not right.
so i read somewhere that the AI can tell when it is near a "window" object and then it will try to look through it, so it is made up of triggers, the AI did not simply kno that there was a hole in that patch of wall material, he was prompted by a trigger.
but get away fromt eh technicalities, and see the whole game as a... whole, and youll have a wonderful time with a wonderful game.
heres another example, the marines when you first meet them in hl1 seem incredibly intelligent, using cover and running around to flank you, but when youre playing with the level editor and put them in a large open area, the apparent AI is stripped from them and they are dumb as bricks. i contend that it is mainly in valve's level designers jurisdiction, and we should take the SP game as a whole, and leave the technicalities to the modders.
Wood Before...