Entities/r_speeds And Blah
michaeltoe
Join Date: 2003-04-17 Member: 15588Members
Join Date: 2003-04-17 Member: 15588Members
<div class="IPBDescription">what does the limit imply?</div> The NS guidelines suggest under 400 entities, and average w_poly's under 500. So far my map meets that req, but only after I discovered the incredible boost of making func_walls out of all the oddly shape details on my map. I previously had crates, pipes, and light fixtures attached to the walls and floors and they really screwed with the r_speeds... but since I've now gone and converted practically all my details to func_wall or func_seethrough, I'm beginning to wonder exactly how the amount of entities affects game performance. I have a decent machine so I can't really tell if the game will lag on others'.
Do entities contribute to internet lag? Do they hog more resources than regular faces? Even if the limit is 400, what is the tradeoff of converting everything to entities to lower r_speeds? Do some entities cause more problems than others? Would 100 functional doors cause more lag than 100 static func_walls? Are ambient light entities even present after the compile when the light isn't variable?
My map is currently only about 1/3rd finished, and I have just over 100 entities. I don't think I'll need to go beyond 400, but it would be nice to know anyway... I could of asked this on another forum, but the limits relate specifically to NS.
Do entities contribute to internet lag? Do they hog more resources than regular faces? Even if the limit is 400, what is the tradeoff of converting everything to entities to lower r_speeds? Do some entities cause more problems than others? Would 100 functional doors cause more lag than 100 static func_walls? Are ambient light entities even present after the compile when the light isn't variable?
My map is currently only about 1/3rd finished, and I have just over 100 entities. I don't think I'll need to go beyond 400, but it would be nice to know anyway... I could of asked this on another forum, but the limits relate specifically to NS.
Comments
since I say tanith I was shure entities arent the way to success for one cause: the entities are calculated by the server. so many/too big/too complex entities would lower your map speeds.
like all beginner mappers I also made the mistake to simply cut the whole worldbrushes by other worldbrushes. it resulted in r-speeds that werent playable anymore. advanced mappers use func_walls instead <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> but semipro mapper go in the other direction again. they build there architecture so well that there are only few func walls needed. that of course will take longer to compile but the i-net speeds will be faster. and it looks much more realistic.
Also, if entities cause lag, should I say to myself "400 is ok", or a lower value, like 200... ?
I want to know this because I've never made a map before and don't know what kind of numbers the other maps are running.
to the r-speeds: some people may say "nah, r-speeds! I have a... *dunno* ... machine thats enough to draw 2000 faces per second." but keep in mind that some dont. If you going to have over 700 wpolies in sections with only few action, it will be ok. but in areas where possibly headed combat will take place the speeds should be around 500. try the r_speeds 1 command on official maps and look how they are build at some spots. so you will get a better idea how to achieve a playable map.
The entity limit isn't a major issue with lag and anything like that, it's a HL engine limitation. Now, the HL engine can only handle 1024 entities, some of which are reserved. So why 400 for NS? Well, for one thing entities aren't counted on a 1-1 ratio. For example a single func_breakable is considered 15 entities by the game engine because of the pieces it shatters into. NS also has a specific problem - all the entities that it creates. Every building placed, marine or alien, is an entity. Every health pack, ammo, weapon, jetpack dropped by the comm is an entity. Every tripmine placed is an entity - laser tripmines might be two entities because of the beam effect. Every web gorges lay is a entity. Not to mention every 'physical' weapon, like grenades, acid rockets, bilebombs, etc, may be entities. And I'm not even sure how much particles systems count for. So, a map that has the loose maximum of 400 entities, could come dangerously close to the hard limit of entities in play.
I'm curious, there are various situations where I use the {invisible texture because I only want one surface of an object to be seen. If I replaced these {invisible textures with the clip texture, will it work like {invisible, and does it reduce r_speeds? Or am I screwed either way?
I managed to get a place where I got 820 w_poly reduced to 699 (yepp exactly that value <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) using hint brushes.
But remember that hint brushes are no replacement for good vis blocking architecture... but if you know how to use them right you can plan with them and use them to save a lot of polys.
-my2cent-
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