Hmg Dammage

JaX · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">The HMG</div> Ok, I just went thoguh a VERY long game, it lasted for the better part of 4 hours. It was quite fun and entertaining as both sides were basically stuck in a deadlock. As fun as it was, I noticed one thing, we (the marines) had all the possible upgrades and so did the aliens, even thoug they were playing with 2 hives because one always went down becasue of our efforts, I noticed sort of a little problem. To demonstrate my point, I'll describe the events: I'm wearing heavy armour and I have an HMG, I'm the point of a group of 3 HMG/HA and 1 GL/HA going down to the hive. What happens is that a single fade shows up, about 20 yards away from me and so I open fire (we're in a long corridor, can't monouver and so he charges me) I wateched my bullets hit, especially since after having shot out 70 bullets he was ON me slashing me, I was shooting him right in the chest. And so, I died, and so did 2 other HMG behind me, these were 290 AP and 100HP that were gone with FULLY upgraded guns (lvl3) now, am I the only one to see something wrong in this? After 200+ bullets the fade died. It takes about 10 shots from an acid rocket to kill a heavy marine but the fade can run away since he's very fast so that's not a big problem. My main problem is that taking 200+ bullets (even with carapace maxed out) isn't really what I would call in the realm of playable. I don't have a problem with things being unrealistic but when the strongest thing the MARINES can throw at the 2nd most powerful thing on the ALIEN side gets torn to pieces like a rag doll, I start to ponder. I saw the "blood" gushing out of the stinking FADE like it was a fountain so I know that the majority of my bullets were hitting him and yet he took me down and an other marnie. This is simply absirde concidering that the equivalent of a FADE for marines (in terms of gameplay and not tactics and weaponry) is the JP/HMG marine, and he can be killed, rather easily, by a skulk, and yet, the skulk's counterpart, the ordinary marine, can't do squat against a fade. To mee, in the present 1.04 version, the fade seems to be the most powerful entity and the HMG seems to be a LMG with more bullets rather than a heavier-hitting, longer lasting, machine gun. I just want to know (and hope) weather this issue will be fixed or counterballanced in 1.1. I've read the list of changes and I'm not sure if either will be fixed.

And for these of you telling me I'm a crappy marine, concider that being good and not had nothing to do with it as my bullets were hitting (or the great majority of them) and so were my teammates', I know I'm not the best player around but I'm not the worst one either and I know when something is unballanced.

Didn't mean to rock the boat, just wanted some info...

Gliss · June 2003

For some odd reason, I find that with fully upgraded weapons, a machinegun kills much, much quicker than a heavy machinegun. For a Fade, anyhow. I should know, because I made a Fade redeem with a machinegun in about 3 seconds by emptying less than a clip into a full-health Fade, at far range, too.
On the other hand, I used a heavy machinegun and it took forever. He killed me.
In both situations, I had full upgrades. It wasn't a problem of accuracy, I emptied at least 1 clip into the Fade with heavy machinegun.
Can anyone confirm this?

The_Real_Quasar · June 2003

Ever considered that:
A) He had carapace
B) He had DCs nearby healing him during the battle

Brave_Ulysses · June 2003

Good Lord, if I played as a fade like that an <b>L</b>MG could take me out! I really don't see how an HMG could fail to take one of those fades out unless he kept hiding to heal up. And down a long corridor - surely a fade would just blink down there? Sounds a bit iffy...

And Pjofski I think an HMG has a larger cone of fire than an LMG which would make the latter more accurate than the former.

Zenn · June 2003

Standard HMG bullet is 20 damage. Level 3 weapons makes them 27.5, a Fade with Full life/Cara should die to lvl3 HMG in about 15 bullets or so...easily, since that is over 400 and some damage. Combine the panic of the fade probably causing you to miss some shots, and the fact he PROBABLY had lots of nearby DCs, it would take a bit to kill one. But HMGs mow down Fade's like grass if you actually hit them, I've never seen a problem with them. Heck, lvl3 LMGs mow down Fades, and lvl3 HMG's mow down Onos.

JaX · June 2003

No, there were no Healing chambers nearby, he had no place to duck. It was a corridor leading up to our HQ and it was well within out territory, he was just on a scuicide mission to attack our HQ. The 2 guy who survived confirmed that there were no Fatties and no DCs around. He was going on his own juice and he admitted to having carapace but come no - 200+ bullets should have turned his carapace into filet mignion. And no, there could be no panic effect, he was ON me and I was shooting straight into him, it's like standing next to a wall and shooting at it, you just don't miss it.

DarkFrost · June 2003

Jax, that sounds like the fade in question had choke, PL would mean his attacks wouldnt register but choke would translate that yours would not register to his machine.
I've witnessed it alot....
this is a way to "cheat" of sorts with your rate settings, having them too low intentionally because u
A) are moving laggy so harder to hit
B)your hits all register but the majority against you dont.

some people dont even realise they are doing this tho
because they use the default settings on their super fast cable connection that should really be set to lan type settings

rate 10000
cl_updaterate 101
cl_cmdrate 101

no choke or PL for me and im only on 512k

even a fade with carapace takes still less than a lvl3 LMG clip.its can still only take 200 points of damage to its health, and i believe at max cara it only absorbs 60%

Tiax · June 2003

Well my guess is the people behind you shot you in the back...your HA probably blocked the majority of their shots.

As for yours....the HMG is very inaccurate. Not much anyone can do to explain it though without a recording.

Your friend, for instance, can claim there were no DC's nearby but that means little since DC's can heal through walls. Many gorges build them in vents, around corners, and opposite walls so you cant' see to kill them but aliens can still heal.

PseudoKnight · June 2003

I suggest having your buds weld you in the back while you're shooting. Solves the problem of their bullets hitting you in the back and not the fade as well as the problem of well... you dieing.

ViPr · June 2003

i think bad lag makes aliens harder to kill.

UnderDOG · June 2003

i dunno, close range with an hmg i can shred a fade in seconds

PFCNublar · June 2003

that is weird. It happens to me when on nancy i try to chase a fade with JP/HMG away from the base. We are like a good distance, and he charges me. Me stands there and fires off around 3/4 of my magazine.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> "AHHH! ITS NOT DYING! WTH!"
*munch*
<i>From console:</i>
Fade killed Delta|Cpt.Terran with swipe
...
WTH.

Its just like sometimes, when i shoot my pistol, it doesn't play a shoot animation yet my bullets go down, and the hit decal on the wall magically appeared. yet when i blast aliens, I could be shaking a sharp stick at them.
...
Hit boxes?

SoulSkorpion · June 2003

There is no way in hell that you hit that fade with over 200 bullets and he survived. The most likely solution was that a lot of those bullets were hitting your teammates instead of the fade, and that the fade was very good. Dodging even a little bit dramatically decreases the amount of hits you take. More than likely, you missed the fade with 150 bullets.

I've been on the recieving end plenty of times, and I've had exasperated marines swearing that they pumped two clips into me without killing me, and I've pointed out that they merely pumped two clips into the wall. On the other hand, HMGs hurt like hell. I've also been mown down before I could blink. So on the balance, it's likely that you didn't hit the fade as many times as you thought, but he wasn't necessarily far off dying.

CEldin · June 2003

From what I understand Skorpion, this fellow had his back to a wall and SAW the blood coming out. This sounds like that lag thing because I just do not think a bug that huge exists.

Brave_Ulysses · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 11 2003, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Jax, that sounds like the fade in question had choke, PL would mean his attacks wouldnt register but choke would translate that yours would not register to his machine.
I've witnessed it alot....
this is a way to "cheat" of sorts with your rate settings, having them too low intentionally because u
A) are moving laggy so harder to hit
B)your hits all register but the majority against you dont.

some people dont even realise they are doing this tho
because they use the default settings on their super fast cable connection that should really be set to lan type settings

rate 10000
cl_updaterate 101
cl_cmdrate 101

no choke or PL for me and im only on 512k

even a fade with carapace takes still less than a lvl3 LMG clip.its can still only take 200 points of damage to its health, and i believe at max cara it only absorbs 60%  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not too knowledgeable about this kind of thing so could you explain this to me in detail? What does "choke" mean? How do certain settings adversely influence a game? Help! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Windelkron · June 2003

hey man, once I was playing as a fade and I came up behind a HA wearer, I got 2 free hits on him before he started shooting at me, and I even circlestrafed him, but I died first. Oh well.

more on topic:
ex_interp, choke, updaterate, they all fool you. cl_lb draws blood from client-side predictions, not server-side, so when you may be hitting wall, the machine will show blood. and ex_interp... we all know ex_interp.

Drew · June 2003

there must have been outside variables you didnt know about. when i have jetpack/hmg i RUSH fades and easily kill them in less than a full clip, missing quite a bit as well.
quite possibly what happened in your situation is that the fade was in umbra (sometimes its hard to see), and had d chambers healing him nearby. you said the fade was right in your face meaning your teammates fire would basically be worthless, since their fire was probably hitting your back, blocking the fade from their fire.

Hmg Dammage

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