How To Revive Ns...

ShaikonShaikon Join Date: 2003-02-19 Member: 13744Members
in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Untill 1.1 is released.</div> Lets face it, NS is seeing a major decline right now. Many clans are going inactive till 1.1 just because the gameplay is the same every time. Even the pubs are seeing less play. In leagure play, the fast HMG+JP rush = marine win more than 90% of the time. And since all clans want to win, thats the strat they use. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->

The solution to this is so simple. It'd take the NS team maybe 5 minutes to impliment it.
What is this change you ask? Easy: change the JP cost to ~25. Thats it.

I guarentee you'll see a noticeble change in strats and gameplay, which will be more then enough to tide clans over till 1.1 is [eventually] released. Call it 1.05 or something.

The longer 1.1 is delayed, the more negative effect it will have on the NS community.

Please don't take this as a rant/rave post, its just a suggestion and opinion. One that probably been thought of before. I play 1.04 nightly with my clan and still compete in leagues. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Comments

  • LambdaProjectLambdaProject Join Date: 2002-02-20 Member: 230Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One that probably been thought of before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Exactly. Don't bet on a 1.05. MANY people have posted topics about this fora very long time now. Let it rest until 1.1.
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  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Members
    edited June 2003
    [edit]/me hits head on wall repeatedly
    I keep forgetting, they never listen.[/edit]

    Just stop playing if you think its unfair right now, last i checked I had fun in a well-balanced 1.04 game last night.
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    The problem is that the JP/HMG rush is so hard to counter from the alien side.

    For one solution to the problem before 1.1 comes out,

    <shameless plug>
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=34397' target='_blank'>see this thread.</a>.
    </shameless plug>

    Doesn't totally fix the framerate problem so that low-framerate people can use the jetpack, but does seem to nerf the JP/HMG rush pretty well to balance the game a little better.
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  • TiaxTiax Join Date: 2003-05-28 Member: 16802Members
    Part of what makes it difficult is starting in a large hive like refinery. Also alien wall cling is really quite clumsy making it difficult to cling to a roof, go around corners, and still be able to bite at a marine.

    Overall though its not to bad holding on the early rush as long as the teams are stacked heavily.
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  • Hologram0Hologram0 Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9303Members, Constellation
    Climbing is a matter of skill. It is something you have to work on to be successful at.

    It is easy to counter JP HMG. Get 3 defence chambers under the hive and have 2-3 lerks around the hive and the chambers using spikes. If you have half decent aim you can take them down and a Carpace lerk with 3 defence chambers and the hive healing it is hard to kill even for a HMG.

    Work as a team and it is not hard. Refinery is one of the easier hives to defend this way because the JP/HMG er is always visable and can be shot down easily.
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  • Frogg2Frogg2 Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4867Members, Constellation
    Doesnt fix the problem that marines are overpowered in 1.04
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    If it's so easy to counter, why did all the US/NZ games recently and 3 of the US/EU games end in a win for JP/HMG? It's not like those guys are bad at playing aliens, quite the reverse. The only exception was a surprise gorge/skulk rush by the EU team playing aliens that managed to get the US base down.
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  • Mr_Radical_EdMr_Radical_Ed Join Date: 2002-09-05 Member: 1285Members
    edited June 2003
    Its a suprise rush like that which gives the aliens a win currently, match or pub. Its hoping that among all the marines out on the map that aliens have a window to rush the marine base[if they haven't already relocated to something more difficult], and take out their spawns, proto, etc etc.. cause if you don't look for an opportunity like that you are asking to lose.
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    Frogg2: yes, even if there was no jetpack, marines might well be overpowered at high-level competition (hard to tell, though) in v1.04.

    I guess the only difference is that it might be kinda fun to find out whether that's really true, no? If aliens aren't quite so worried about going lerk early and similar stuff to defend against the JP/HMG rush, maybe some different strategies would come out.

    On pubs, the difference in skill between teams is mostly larger than the difference between the inherent strength of the marine/alien side.

    I'd liken the situation to tennis - in tennis, you expect to win the game if it's your serve, but if you get outplayed you can still lose. Right now, if you're playing marines in v1.04, it's your serve.
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  • V_MANV_MAN V-MAN Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6217Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Hologram0110+Jun 13 2003, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hologram0110 @ Jun 13 2003, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Climbing is a matter of skill. It is something you have to work on to be successful at.

    It is easy to counter JP HMG. Get 3 defence chambers under the hive and have 2-3 lerks around the hive and the chambers using spikes. If you have half decent aim you can take them down and a Carpace lerk with 3 defence chambers and the hive healing it is hard to kill even for a HMG.

    Work as a team and it is not hard. Refinery is one of the easier hives to defend this way because the JP/HMG er is always visable and can be shot down easily. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    LOL what makes you think the jp/hmgers are gonna shoot the lerks you fool? They are gonna go for the hive and nothing else, so what if you kill them they will put a clip or 2 into the hive before you do and guess what? they'll be back inside a minute to do it again or as many times as needed cos you ain't gonna have a second hive anytime soon cos of the res you spent on lerks

    Also your adrenaline runs out very quickly when using spikes and takes a painfully long time to recharge.
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  • Frogg2Frogg2 Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4867Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--clamatius+Jun 12 2003, 07:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Jun 12 2003, 07:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frogg2: yes, even if there was no jetpack, marines might well be overpowered at high-level competition (hard to tell, though) in v1.04.

    I guess the only difference is that it might be kinda fun to find out whether that's really true, no? If aliens aren't quite so worried about going lerk early and similar stuff to defend against the JP/HMG rush, maybe some different strategies would come out.

    On pubs, the difference in skill between teams is mostly larger than the difference between the inherent strength of the marine/alien side.

    I'd liken the situation to tennis - in tennis, you expect to win the game if it's your serve, but if you get outplayed you can still lose. Right now, if you're playing marines in v1.04, it's your serve. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1.04 is flawed in that marines can get res/tech alot faster than aliens, if there were no JPs the HA "rush" would take it's place.
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  • ecstasyecstasy Join Date: 2003-06-12 Member: 17290Members
    I think the jp patch might be helpful, but there's still the problem of a rambo or a pair of strike jp/hmgs. If you can't stop the cannon fodder in jps, then you can't stop the two extremely skilled jp/hmg guys anyway. After all, even though 50 res is more than 18, it's not wholly unattainable in a short period of time.
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    No, the metamod I made doesn't affect JP res cost, it affects fuel usage. It stops you hovering infinitely, since fuel usage is based on time elapsed rather than framerate. Then you have to land to recharge, which gives skulks a chance to defend the hive.
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  • ecstasyecstasy Join Date: 2003-06-12 Member: 17290Members
    I was talking about the suggested increase in the cost of jps to 25. As for your metamod, this is the first I've heard of it. So it may be extremely effective. I don't know.
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.04 is flawed in that marines can get res/tech alot faster than aliens, if there were no JPs the HA "rush" would take it's place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wow, so you think marines can tech to HA before aliens get a second hive up? It's entirely possible you're right, but I'm not sure - just seemed like in the Tanith game the US alien team lost they weren't that far off getting a hive set up in Fusion when the jetpackers showed up.

    I'm speaking purely as an armchair commentator, of course. I can just about hit the side of a barn, as long as it's the long side of the barn and I'm not too far away. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • DenialDenial Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
    A 1.05 patch would really help a lot, but the idea appears unpopular with the developers at the moment. Well, if things go on as they do now for another month, I suppose server numbers will go down another 20% and the leagues will just die. We'll see if THAT will be bad enough.
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  • KhazModanKhazModan Join Date: 2003-04-14 Member: 15500Members, Constellation
    ther server i play on usualy does Heavy rushes, (and when i comm) we lock down one hive then tech up... which inevtiably mean we loose 4 times out of 10 but the guys seem to have fun with their toys.

    *i hate 2 hive lockdowns*

    ive only ever done this about 5 times.

    also i use jetpacks but give them out quite late with little welders (cash is running low by this point) so they cant real;ly rush the hive they still have to work as a team... and loose

    also, i play for the love of playing not winning. i wont be putting 1.04 to rest, i will be playing it untill the dawn of 1.1
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  • AkalamanaiaAkalamanaia Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11833Members
    Server operator forum got some plugins what copy NS 1.1 changes to metamod plugin.
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  • CowswinCowswin Join Date: 2003-03-17 Member: 14623Banned, Constellation
    There's a myriad of tactics that are ultra lame in 1.04. Med-pack spam (which I haven't heard about being fixed or not) is just another tactic. However, I would say that taking out the JP/HMG might be a quick temp solution. I believe though, that the devs said it wasn't going to happen. I don't remember a real good reason that was given. My personal opinion is that they won't do a 1.05 not because they're working so hard on 1.1, but that 1.1 is too close to release to release two patches in a row. That's my hope anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
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  • DenialDenial Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Twisted Master+Jun 13 2003, 06:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twisted Master @ Jun 13 2003, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My personal opinion is that they won't do a 1.05 not because they're working so hard on 1.1, but that 1.1 is too close to release to release two patches in a row. That's my hope anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The beta discussion forum does not sound like it. But they do say med spam is fixed, at least the spamming as the very beginning of the game.
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  • NSCypherNSCypher Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12758Members
    edited June 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Denial @ Jun 13 2003, 01:55 PM)<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Twisted Master @ Jun 13 2003, 06:39 AM)
    My personal opinion is that they won't do a 1.05 not because they're working so hard on 1.1, but that 1.1 is too close to release to release two patches in a row. That's my hope anyway <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The beta discussion forum does not sound like it. But they do say med spam is fixed, at least the spamming as the very beginning of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well Flay said a little while ago in the beta forum that the build currently in development is probably the last major change, and all the following builds will be minor balance and bugfixes...

    Hopefully, 1.1 isn't as far away as we think! (could still take months tho...)


    [EDIT] Found that Flay quote...

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just a FYI, the next build is coming this weekend, most likely Saturday afternoon. It should have a lot of big fixes, including stomp changes, metabolize reworking (with new anims), lower marine build times, better handicapping support, HA fixes, carapace/rounding fixes, and more.

    This should be the last big balance version! After this, it's HLTV, demo and anti-cheat work, plus incremental balance changes!  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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  • clamatiusclamatius Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14948Members, Constellation
    See <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=34997&st=0' target='_blank'>this thread</a> for an ersatz replacement for v1.05 till NS 1.1 comes out.
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  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited June 2003
    NS had at its highest time 450 servers and about 2000 players on average. Right now (admittely, it's friday afternoon, but WTH), we see 353 servers and 1341 players. Not too drastic a decline, if you ask me.
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  • RueRue Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
    edited June 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Frogg2+Jun 13 2003, 12:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Jun 13 2003, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Doesnt fix the problem that marines are overpowered in 1.04 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You and the rest of your team must be bad aliens then , gorge = the best weapon in NS u just gota know where/when/how to use it correct

    Anyway , when i lose as aliens i actualy have to stop playing NS for a while cause it bugs me i didnt do good enough, same with mariens too but then again... iv not stoped playing for 6 weeks

    <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <span style='font-family:Arial'>were comming to get ya</span> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> </span>
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