res for kills is the MOST balancing and fun thing added to 1.1 imo. its gives that last stand with marines the extra push they need to rebuild something, or too afford that elec upgrade when they needed it. trust me its not a bad thing at all.
acid rockets jumping, its a novelty really, but the effect it has on marines is devastating, it pushes you around like a rag doll, so imagine 2 fades on either end of a hallway acid rocketing you, its like pinball and ur the ball thats dieing <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the hive locks on fades and Oni; with the cheap price of hives now, you still see fades and Onos just as often as you did before (on pubs at least), only bad thing is that fades are almost game enders again.
another addition not too many know of is the sensory upgrade now since its longer range, the best way to stop an upgrade armory or shotgun rush imo. we've done it more than 3 times now with great results.
Im depressed. I was really looking forward to 1.1 because all of the cool changes that would improve gameplay and now this. This is the worst changelog i have seen till now. Let me explain:
O Change lifeforms back to 2 and 3 hive model. Reduced Fade cost from 75 to 50. See if lockdowns can still happen. I cannot make up my mind on this, but want to try it the "old" way one more time.
How could you? The dependancy of the hives was the worst thing in 1.04. Again the marines can just lock down 2 hives and tech crawl the aliens to death with 2 res nodes. And with weakened carpace and all the marine defensive upgrades its easier than ever.(elec. tf+nodes, cheaper weapons...).
O Respawn time for marines lowered from 14 to 10
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.
O Lots of marine structures cheaper and faster to build
Noooo. Again this favors early map domination and total ownage. Generally the marine tech is faster and cheaper now what was a good thing when the aliens could have all lifeforms with 1 hive but now its skulks vs marines till 2. hive is up and the marines that already own skulks get the good staff earlier => 2 hive lockdown => slow alien death
O Changed stomp from radius to shockwave (increases skill, gives enemies a chance, means onos can kill groups of heavies with help, not by himself). Still needs new visual effect. Enemies show stomp rings when they are hit.
Onos now are 3. hive tech and should own. No need to nerf stomp since Onos are supposed to be the game ender again.
O Acid rocket is now hive 2, metabolize is hive 3
Arghhh. The thing i hated the most in 1.04 as a marine is back in again. Acid rockets are a no skill totally overpowered 2 hive tech and will again be a game ender as soon as available. And this again makes the SC useless since everyone will go carpace and adrenaline to rocket spam.
O Added force where rocket hits (only affects enemy players...rocket jumping!)
Oh yeah great. The already overpowered acid rocket now throws my aim off every time it hits. [Sarcasm] Im sure that makes Fades even easier to kill than in 1.04 [/Sarcasm]
Summary: The game will be focused on the 2. hive even more than now since we are back at 1.04 only that the marines are much stronger early on while the aliens are after the 2. hive goes up. I think the new version of NS doesn´t deserve the name 1.1 anymore. Just rename it to 1.041 since its closer to 1.04 than anything else.
*me looks very sad and confused at 1.1q* <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
First a bunch of cool new features were added to make 1.1 truly different from 1.04 (e.g. Gorge resource sucking, loosened Hive dependency, Utwig Metabolize). And then they're being removed one by one.
If I was sarcastic I could refer to this changelog as 1.05. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
STOP IT... just stop. They are just testing out how the game plays with those hive restrictions. This is not the end-all changelog. So would you please add constructive thought to your posts instead of whining? I'm sorry, but people either have to pound the idea into your head over and over or just put it bluntly: STOP IT.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Respawn time for marines lowered from 14 to 10
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't fear. He had raised the marine spawn time in a previous changelog. Now he's lowering them back to the original numbers.
First of all, when I started to read this changelog, I was like yay, balance at last!
Then I came to the point where it said about hive dependance.
So now, fades and onoses are useless game enders. Forget all the awesome fights that could've been when marines have two hives locked down, and slashing fades come in. That would have been one awesome type of an battle.
But no. No no no. Hive dependance is back again.
No longer I wait for 1.1. Let's just stick with 1.04 and forget 1.1 okay ?
If you are going to make fades and onoses game enders like you are, THEN you should forget about lowering stomp radius etc. First you tell us about lowering some alien abilities, which would have owned with not dependant hives, but now those balancing abilities are useless.
I definately would like to see both Fades and Onos play a real role in the actual struggle part of the game, but freedom from hives is not necessarily the only way to do it. Experimentation is important.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Jun 15 2003, 08:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Jun 15 2003, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First a bunch of cool new features were added to make 1.1 truly different from 1.04 (e.g. Gorge resource sucking, loosened Hive dependency, Utwig Metabolize). And then they're being removed one by one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're **** right :/
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I'm not looking forward to seeing fades acid jumping, and there's got to be a better fade ability than the current metabolize somewhere in Suggestions & Ideas. At the moment I'm really hoping this version doesn't make the cut.
The_Real_QuasarHas the I.Q. of 12,000 P.E. TeachersJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 9998Members
Hopefully Flay is reading this and noting that we hate most of it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> When do we get to see the scorpian that hovars without flapping? Was it bumped up due to a simple mistake, or is it some kind of a hint? Watch out for that tail marines!
Wow, at first I thought I was the only one that thought this new changelog was a major disappointment. It does seem like 1.05. I also don't like how the game ending acid rocket is placed back at 2-hive tech. I still don't understand the point of the new HMG. The old 1.04 still has a much wider cone, but I still have an easy time chewing up small aliens even while flying at high speads with a JP.
I know this might be all experimentation and all, but 1.1 sooner than later? Plz? Anyway, I find it funny that Twex got it right on the nose. lol <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--The Real Quasar+Jun 15 2003, 04:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Real Quasar @ Jun 15 2003, 04:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hopefully Flay is reading this and noting that we hate most of it :( <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think all that most of the posts here are doing is ticking him off. :/
I'm not too keen on the hive dependancy, and maybe that will go out with playtesting. That said, I probably only feel this way because it seemed to be 1.1's lynchpin - the idea of more tech freedom, and a more dynamic game for both 'rines and 'ara due to holding the RTs becoming the focus.
I hope he experiements with the oft-suggested idea of making only Onos require two hives, I think that's a good compromise.
hive lockdowns could be tricky - depending on if elec nodes etc can still 'be taken down by organised groups of hive 1 aliens' . running through turrets to kill pgs and tfs used to be mostly suicidal (would now give res to marines) but you could clear a hive if persistant and you use lots of ppl - if the marines dont respond in time.
i cant really comment on this, but i'm quite worried <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Jun 15 2003, 09:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jun 15 2003, 09:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Respawn time for marines lowered from 14 to 10
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't fear. He had raised the marine spawn time in a previous changelog. Now he's lowering them back to the original numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, aliens spawn in 8 seconds, marines in 10, in 1.04. Hmm, what happened to that idea about making all aliens spawn at once? "OMG THEYRE EVERYWHERE!"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, aliens spawn in 8 seconds, marines in 10, in 1.04.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I know. Did I say somewhere to the contrary? No. Comprehend my post before responding. (i know that's an unreasonable request, but this is getting tiring)
Yup - hive dependence and electrification sounds like a bad time for the aliens. The gorge bile bomb might help, but I'm still sceptical. The playtesters will tell us how this works out.
<!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Jun 15 2003, 05:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jun 15 2003, 05:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, aliens spawn in 8 seconds, marines in 10, in 1.04.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I know. Did I say somewhere to the contrary? No. Comprehend my post before responding. (i know that's an unreasonable request, but this is getting tiring) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's funny you say that, because you don't seem to comprehend his. :/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Comprehend my post before responding.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sigh. The guy says that he doesn't like aliens and marines having equal spawn times(10 secs), as this makes the marines better than the aliens at spawning(multiple IPs). Then he must have been much happier with the 1.04 numbers, where aliens only take 8 seconds to spawn. Then you say that the numbers are being restored to the <b>original numbers</b>, which would be the 10 vs 8 seconds because...It was never 10 v 10 secs in any earlier build of 1.1. Yet, it is being changed to 10 v 10 secs, and you seemingly make the point that <i>those</i> are the original numbers. Which is why I clarified, making sure that you did know about the actual numbers.
Going by the look of the Beta Discussion forums, it's unlikely it'll stay, so we shouldn't have to worry. EDIT: I'd like to make a point about the carapace nerf. With the new numbers, carapace is MUCH worse than the new regen, so it might have to be changed again, like 1.03(I think?) where you always had full armor boost(skulk had 30 at all 3 levels), but the absorbation % increased by 20 each level. Of course, to make a difference between lvl 3 then and now, the "full armor boost" would have to be increased a bit.
Ex; 40 AP for <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->, 80 for the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->(shouldn't be fighting anyways), 90 for <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->-which feels like too much, but it's just some random numbers-, 175 for the <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->, 230 for the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
I suppose I was a bit too hasty. I apologize for that. Some people here just got on my nerves recently. It's been a long night. He had responded specifically to the marine spawn time (which was the only part he quoted) and I responded in consideration of only the marine spawn time. I didn't take into consideration that he was looking at the alien spawn time being equal to the marines. (didn't read through it slowly enough? not sure) So while technically my post was accurate, there was no reassurance since I didn't address his concern. When you posted something I already knew, I had too little patience (due to other threads) to look back and think. You can see my lack of patience in my quote: "this is getting tiring".
But overall it really doesn't matter anyway, as Phoenix points out: it's a beta. They're testing the new numbers. If Jaml's concerns prove true then they'll address it.
Now I probably should get some sleep. It's tiring work to make a fool of one's self. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(Thanks for pointing out the irony Snidely and making me feel all the worse <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->)
that was graceful pseudo <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i personally liked the idea of dropping the hive dependancies from when i first heard it, but if flay wants to give it one more go, then why not? 1.1 will have to be an improvement whatever shape it takes. i'm pretty over NS as it is now. (still good, but too many short, frustrating games)
Seriously guys don't get too worked up about anything, if it doesn't work it won't stay. I can remember a certain version of NS 1.0 where once nodes were destroyed they couldn't be built back. Everyone complained like now, it didn't work so it changed, which is how it goes for everything.
ide like 2 c 2 things.. the onos being dependant on 2 hives, and limiting the number of onos to the number of players on the team..
at twohives eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
p.s THANX FLAY FOR THIS AMAZING GAME <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->..i play ns 24/7 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I love how everything has been reduced. I think that Flayra and co. are actually balancing the game the RIGHT way, which is kinda scary. Every game that has been patched has gone by a simple rule....
If one thing is too powerful, nerf that one thing to balance the game. This is of course, flawed. The right way (which is the way flayra is doing it) is....If one thing is too powerful, <i>up</i> everything else in the game to bring it to that level. I like how all of the build times and spawn times have been reduced.
Aliens spawn too fast...so do we nerf alien spawn time? No, we reduce marine spawn time...perrrfect =) Keep up the good work guys, cant wait to see the final version.
<!--QuoteBegin--HellSpawn+Jun 15 2003, 02:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HellSpawn @ Jun 15 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ide like 2 c 2 things.. the onos being dependant on 2 hives, and limiting the number of onos to the number of players on the team..
at twohives eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
p.s THANX FLAY FOR THIS AMAZING GAME <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->..i play ns 24/7 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was thinking exactly same things... 2 hives for onos, but limit the number. It would be kinda annoying though to have a 6 man HA/HMG squad coming towards your hive and having n00bs who can't walk forward be onos and elite players be fades. Buuuuut, like you said, elite players must be better skulks anyway so they will get onos a lot faster than n00bs. Good post and definetly worth testing in my opinion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
res for kills is the MOST balancing and fun thing added to 1.1 imo. its gives that last stand with marines the extra push they need to rebuild something, or too afford that elec upgrade when they needed it. trust me its not a bad thing at all.
acid rockets jumping, its a novelty really, but the effect it has on marines is devastating, it pushes you around like a rag doll, so imagine 2 fades on either end of a hallway acid rocketing you, its like pinball and ur the ball thats dieing <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
the hive locks on fades and Oni; with the cheap price of hives now, you still see fades and Onos just as often as you did before (on pubs at least), only bad thing is that fades are almost game enders again.
another addition not too many know of is the sensory upgrade now since its longer range, the best way to stop an upgrade armory or shotgun rush imo. we've done it more than 3 times now with great results.
O Change lifeforms back to 2 and 3 hive model. Reduced Fade cost from 75 to 50. See if lockdowns can still happen. I cannot make up my mind on this, but want to try it the "old" way one more time.
How could you? The dependancy of the hives was the worst thing in 1.04. Again the marines can just lock down 2 hives and tech crawl the aliens to death with 2 res nodes. And with weakened carpace and all the marine defensive upgrades its easier than ever.(elec. tf+nodes, cheaper weapons...).
O Respawn time for marines lowered from 14 to 10
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.
O Lots of marine structures cheaper and faster to build
Noooo. Again this favors early map domination and total ownage. Generally the marine tech is faster and cheaper now what was a good thing when the aliens could have all lifeforms with 1 hive but now its skulks vs marines till 2. hive is up and the marines that already own skulks get the good staff earlier => 2 hive lockdown => slow alien death
O Changed stomp from radius to shockwave (increases skill, gives enemies a chance, means onos can kill groups of heavies with help, not by himself). Still needs new visual effect. Enemies show stomp rings when they are hit.
Onos now are 3. hive tech and should own. No need to nerf stomp since Onos are supposed to be the game ender again.
O Acid rocket is now hive 2, metabolize is hive 3
Arghhh. The thing i hated the most in 1.04 as a marine is back in again. Acid rockets are a no skill totally overpowered 2 hive tech and will again be a game ender as soon as available. And this again makes the SC useless since everyone will go carpace and adrenaline to rocket spam.
O Added force where rocket hits (only affects enemy players...rocket jumping!)
Oh yeah great. The already overpowered acid rocket now throws my aim off every time it hits. [Sarcasm] Im sure that makes Fades even easier to kill than in 1.04 [/Sarcasm]
Summary: The game will be focused on the 2. hive even more than now since we are back at 1.04 only that the marines are much stronger early on while the aliens are after the 2. hive goes up. I think the new version of NS doesn´t deserve the name 1.1 anymore. Just rename it to 1.041 since its closer to 1.04 than anything else.
*me looks very sad and confused at 1.1q* <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:cries:
First a bunch of cool new features were added to make 1.1 truly different from 1.04 (e.g. Gorge resource sucking, loosened Hive dependency, Utwig Metabolize). And then they're being removed one by one.
If I was sarcastic I could refer to this changelog as 1.05. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Respawn time for marines lowered from 14 to 10
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't fear. He had raised the marine spawn time in a previous changelog. Now he's lowering them back to the original numbers.
First of all, when I started to read this changelog, I was like yay, balance at last!
Then I came to the point where it said about hive dependance.
So now, fades and onoses are useless game enders. Forget all the awesome fights that could've been when marines have two hives locked down, and slashing fades come in. That would have been one awesome type of an battle.
But no. No no no. Hive dependance is back again.
No longer I wait for 1.1. Let's just stick with 1.04 and forget 1.1 okay ?
If you are going to make fades and onoses game enders like you are, THEN you should forget about lowering stomp radius etc. First you tell us about lowering some alien abilities, which would have owned with not dependant hives, but now those balancing abilities are useless.
Please don't do this.
You're **** right :/
When do we get to see the scorpian that hovars without flapping? Was it bumped up due to a simple mistake, or is it some kind of a hint?
Watch out for that tail marines!
I know this might be all experimentation and all, but 1.1 sooner than later? Plz? Anyway, I find it funny that Twex got it right on the nose. lol <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think all that most of the posts here are doing is ticking him off. :/
I'm not too keen on the hive dependancy, and maybe that will go out with playtesting. That said, I probably only feel this way because it seemed to be 1.1's lynchpin - the idea of more tech freedom, and a more dynamic game for both 'rines and 'ara due to holding the RTs becoming the focus.
I hope he experiements with the oft-suggested idea of making only Onos require two hives, I think that's a good compromise.
i cant really comment on this, but i'm quite worried <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Arghh. The marines already can build more ips. So there was no need to make them spawn as fast as aliens. This change will overpower the marines early on and again favor 2 hive lockdowns. With such short spawn times marines can overrun the map before the aliens have the chance to get some powerful lifeforms into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't fear. He had raised the marine spawn time in a previous changelog. Now he's lowering them back to the original numbers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, aliens spawn in 8 seconds, marines in 10, in 1.04.
Hmm, what happened to that idea about making all aliens spawn at once? "OMG THEYRE EVERYWHERE!"
It's funny you say that, because you don't seem to comprehend his. :/
Sigh.
The guy says that he doesn't like aliens and marines having equal spawn times(10 secs), as this makes the marines better than the aliens at spawning(multiple IPs). Then he must have been much happier with the 1.04 numbers, where aliens only take 8 seconds to spawn.
Then you say that the numbers are being restored to the <b>original numbers</b>, which would be the 10 vs 8 seconds because...It was never 10 v 10 secs in any earlier build of 1.1.
Yet, it is being changed to 10 v 10 secs, and you seemingly make the point that <i>those</i> are the original numbers.
Which is why I clarified, making sure that you did know about the actual numbers.
EDIT:
I'd like to make a point about the carapace nerf. With the new numbers, carapace is MUCH worse than the new regen, so it might have to be changed again, like 1.03(I think?) where you always had full armor boost(skulk had 30 at all 3 levels), but the absorbation % increased by 20 each level. Of course, to make a difference between lvl 3 then and now, the "full armor boost" would have to be increased a bit.
Ex; 40 AP for <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->, 80 for the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->(shouldn't be fighting anyways), 90 for <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->-which feels like too much, but it's just some random numbers-, 175 for the <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->, 230 for the <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
But overall it really doesn't matter anyway, as Phoenix points out: it's a beta. They're testing the new numbers. If Jaml's concerns prove true then they'll address it.
Now I probably should get some sleep. It's tiring work to make a fool of one's self. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(Thanks for pointing out the irony Snidely and making me feel all the worse <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->)
i personally liked the idea of dropping the hive dependancies from when i first heard it, but if flay wants to give it one more go, then why not? 1.1 will have to be an improvement whatever shape it takes. i'm pretty over NS as it is now. (still good, but too many short, frustrating games)
i trust you flay!
at twohives
eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives
eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
p.s THANX FLAY FOR THIS AMAZING GAME <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->..i play ns 24/7 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If one thing is too powerful, nerf that one thing to balance the game. This is of course, flawed. The right way (which is the way flayra is doing it) is....If one thing is too powerful, <i>up</i> everything else in the game to bring it to that level. I like how all of the build times and spawn times have been reduced.
Aliens spawn too fast...so do we nerf alien spawn time? No, we reduce marine spawn time...perrrfect =) Keep up the good work guys, cant wait to see the final version.
at twohives
eg. 6 karaa players means a max of 2 onos/ 9 karaa players mean 3 onos..etc
but when there are 3 hives
eg. 6 karaa players a max of 4 onos/ 9 karaa players max of 6 onos..etc
..this may lead to disputes over who is going to be the onos..but then it might naturaly go to the better plkayers seing as theyll have more res from kills....id say its at least worth a try..
p.s THANX FLAY FOR THIS AMAZING GAME <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->..i play ns 24/7 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking exactly same things... 2 hives for onos, but limit the number. It would be kinda annoying though to have a 6 man HA/HMG squad coming towards your hive and having n00bs who can't walk forward be onos and elite players be fades. Buuuuut, like you said, elite players must be better skulks anyway so they will get onos a lot faster than n00bs. Good post and definetly worth testing in my opinion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->