Ns_botany

enf0rcer · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">design inside</div> I've always wanted a map with some more green to it. I kno that indoors is better for NS atmosphere but a map with a greenhouse was the closest you can get to plantlike without ruining it. The marines start in a Large round greenhouse on a raised platform overlooking the vegetation. you can see out of the windows out of the top and the room is well lit. Most of the corridors around the base are well lit also and as you move towards the hive you get more flashing lights and it becomes quite dim. I wont go into more detail because im tired 2:30AM and i have to sleep <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> . Here is the design for you to ponder over. The actual mapping details for atmosphere can be dealt with later. I'm considering learning to map because althogh hard it seems quite rewarding. Anyway take a look at this and please give some feedback

e/ the brighter blue means a raised level. This is still being designed so i'd be happy if you helped out.

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Updated the picture.</span></span>

enf0rcer · June 2003

looking at it it seems that the routes between hives are too direct. Thats one thing ill fix.

erendor · June 2003

yep, i see you already noticed what i was going to comment on. The hive routes around hives are too simple, and near hte marine start it looks all clumped upa nd complicated. good luck on creating a nice looking greenhouse, you can do it!

Mendasp · June 2003

OMG, enf0rcer mapping...!

Uhm, the layout looks good for me, except for that the paths between the hives are too shot, but that's been said already <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
Everything else looks good IMO.

Well, GL with mapping, hope it doesn't kill your nerves, I find it easier than modelling, so... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

enf0rcer · June 2003

round 2. Again comments are welcome.

e/ I'm probably not going to map this because A) i don't kno how to map and B) Even if i did get the hang of it i'd leave this till later so i do a good job. so anyone that would like to help me in making this i would love your help. It'd be a great map for sure.

and the pic can now be found above

tseepra · June 2003

It's a shame you can't map because that is a nice layout, maby a little too big though.

enf0rcer · June 2003

yea this is really only intended for big servers. I've always felt that ns should have that overwhelming feeling to it. It just gives a mapper the chance to make so many different lighting styles and contrasting themes. anyway i have the whole summer to start learning and it only took me a month or so to learn modelling quite well but i don't enjoy it as much as i thought i would. None of my stuff ever gets finished although the same can be said for mapping, but i find that a map just has more appeal than a model. now i have the advantage of making my own map models though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

michaeltoe · June 2003

OMG that design is complicated

enf0rcer · June 2003

yup. but thats not always a bad thing. Its not very noob friendly but i don't want it to be. Its for the people who are bored of the original maps and want something to get lost in. Its one of those maps where after a month your still finding you cool stuff. The pic doesn't even show full detail like all the weldables and the elevator. if i managed to create it how it is in my mind you'd be getting lost in alien invested coridors with vines hanging everywhere and there would be plenty of places for skulks to hide since i don't like the open ns coridors very much. Not very skulk friendly in my opinion, you can see a skulk from a mile away because they just still out from the metal textures. I wanted more of an overgrown look where the investation has been there for a while.

michaeltoe · June 2003

Do you plan to give it a greenhouse feel? Because I've implemented something like that in the map I'm working on (except, no plantlife)

<a href='http://peakman.virtualave.net/ns/ns_amalthea22.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://peakman.virtualave.net/ns/ns_amalthea22_t.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'></a>

enf0rcer · June 2003

yes although not as you've done. I picture a more open roof - clear class type thing. Plenty of lighting on the rine side and darker towards the aliens. The sewers would be almost black and certainly give skulks the advantage. Marines willing to risk it would have a shorrtcut to parts all over the map. I imagine in the areas that are over grown that there would be a slight mist on the floor and plenty of vines on the ceiling. I wanted a dank humid feel to it. We'll see how steep the learning curve is for me as far as mapping is conserned. I might just try and get a layout down and then map the details in once i've learned more.

Darkhound · June 2003

I tried making a small section of the layout you did for fun, and it was hell. I've encountered two large problems so far: finding textures and the rotated rooms.

Since the NS texture set is doesn't have any plant textures at all (barring alien infestation textures, which are probably better used in the Hive areas) and the HL texture set has textures with mostly dirt with small amounts of grass in them. That doesn't seem to fit with the lush environment you wanted to create. So I went searching on the net for textures and couldn't find much more than grass and ivy. So, if you want to do this particular theme you'll have to have better luck finding textures or make your own (maybe using the NS textures as a base and adding green stuff to them).

Secondly, large parts of your layout (especially near the marine start) are rotated 45 degrees. Since Half-Life rounds every brush endpoint to the nearest whole unit, it makes constructing the rooms much, much, much harder. If you look at the layouts for the official maps, not a one of them has angled rooms like you do -- they're all square with occaisional slanted walls and such. I'm guessing the reason is that it's way more trouble than it's worth.

Other than those two issues, the layout looks great. So, if you can resolve those two problems you're well on your way to making a great map.

enf0rcer · June 2003

hrm thanks for the info. Perhaps i'll clarafy the idea. I wasn't looking for jungle style walls or anything. I just mean that closer to the hives meant more vines hanging from the ceiling. the hive textures that ns has for the walls are fine. This is just a layout but the shape of the rooms is always up for change. Thank you for having a go at it though. I think the hardest part to make would be the marine start because i was thinking of tables with plants on them and soil areas with plants comming out. Models with the dod transparency might be a good idea.

Something like this. with bars that go over the glass in a grid like pattern as shown in the smaller picture.

tseepra · June 2003

One of the biggest problems with this probably would be that plants and grass look horrible in hl. They are usually like cardboard cut-outs only 1 unit thick. And it would be really hard to make real looking plants.

enf0rcer · June 2003

like i say the dod transparency and some models look quite good imo. It' be cool if you could get a ovement animation to start when the models come in contact with a player model. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

michaeltoe · June 2003

good luck making domed roofs in worldcraft...

Darkhound · June 2003

They are possible, just difficult, both to make, and to alter. There's a tutorial<a href='http://www.gamedesign.net/?file=rust/content/half-life/tutorials/sphere' target='_blank'>here</a>.

Wittman · June 2003

where's pac-man?

Darkhound · June 2003

Ok, after actually trying to make just a simple dome without any supports for the better part of three hours, I have to conclude that it basically is impossible to make a hollow dome in Worldcraft. Trying to add actual supports would surely be even more nightmarish.

DFA_Haplo · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Darkhound @ Jun 18 2003, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok, after actually trying to make just a simple dome without any supports for the better part of three hours, I have to conclude that it basically is impossible to make a hollow dome in Worldcraft. Trying to add actual supports would surely be even more nightmarish.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Ahh thats why I love QuArK. It has its advantages. Not saying that I could make it look great just that it can be done easier then in worldcraft.

BTW. I like the layout and wouldnt mind tackling it except.... It would probably take me 3 years to complete considering the size and the number of rooms to detail and the fact that I would problably run into max_leafs and max out the texture limit. But hey thats just me. For the most part your layout looks better than I can map anyway. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Redford · June 2003

Too large and complex. Simplify, or everyone will get lost.

Futhermore, two of the hives are absurdly easy to siege, while one is seemingly unsiegeable.

michaeltoe · June 2003

It's possible to make an 8 sided dome-like structure, which I've partially done with the silo in my map, but it will never look perfectly like a dome, and you have to make it manually piece by piece.

enf0rcer · June 2003

ok i'm <i>not</i> mapping this. This is just my "dream" map. Its my visual representation of an ns map that i think would be awesome. Which may i ask is unsiegeable? Althou you can see it the hive in the bottom right has windows between the outer corridor and the hive room. I made it so that the aliens kno exatcly when an attack is comming. Smart marines could pull off an attack however, The top right hive and the lower left one have a sever disadvantage with 2 rooms with perfect seige locations. Its basically built this way because any aliens that stay within the hive for the first 10 minutes deserve to lose. This map is about advancing and by the position of the hives i have a diagonal slash right down the map as the combat zone. Aliens must secure the resources mostly around thier hives and then build defense on the weaker hives if they have it. So far the only way i've balanced it is that a few of the resource nodes around the marine base must be welded open so a start for them is also slow unless they can get out with welder teams. There is then a clash as the aliens keep the marines occupied as well as welding and the aliens have to get resources as well as defend. It probably will never work how i imagine it but thats ok because the map isn't being made anyway. and red i made it complex to people would get lost. Like i said before i don't feel there is enough to explore and get overwhelmed by in the default maps. But thats just me.

I might make a smaller less complex design with a simlar theme for you guys to try. Thank you those that did have a go mapping it, i am a noob to mapping and have no idea of the limitations so i just went all out.

Ns_botany

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