Vac Support May Exclude Wrongfully

welthqa · July 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">VAC errors</div> I'm kinda bummed about there being VAC, because I'm pretty sure it means i can't play. I have always run C-D or anything else to show I wasn't cheating. But the other night I tried to join a game of CS war3 mod, and it said it detected a cheat, when in fact I had none. Then it links me to a website saying I need to remove my cheat, but I had already been banned from like everywhere. There wasn't even an email for me to question this. I'm kinda **** because if just one person looked at my CS score it would be obvious I don't cheat.

Does this mean I can't play NS2.0? Anyone else been falsly banned by VAC?( <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

iFire · July 2003

Well Cheating death did the same too ..
it banned me from all the Vac servers :/
not that I play cs or those other mods <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>
btw this was like in may/april
AND NO I DID NOT MIODIFY ANYTHINg

FaT_CaM · July 2003

cs = crap stuff <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

iFire · July 2003

But I hope they have a solution for this :/
I wanna play NS2

Salaman · July 2003

The solution is to not cheat...ever.

You may have had a cheat in the past, that leaves residual data that VAC/CD can pick up, even if you thought you removed it.

Anyways, I played TFC for a couple years, CS for..maybe a month, and NS for a little over 1/2 a year(I regularly play on a CD NS server), and never had trouble with automatic cheat detection.

Sadly, can't say the same for meaty cheat detection. Banned from two NS servers, a CS server, and 3 TFC servers so far due to incompetent admins.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

MeLeNkO · July 2003

nope sry i dont belive.....VAC i know did have this problem but they have solved it with there updates since and they said its either ur hardware or u are actully cheating and if it is hardware all it does is dissconnects u from a server not ban u straight away i mean i could be wrong but never the less ns should stay with C-D and now use VAC in my opneion

Hayaat · July 2003

yea, as far as i know, Cheating-Death and VAC are incompatible.. so ideally.. never have CD open when running CS and NS2.0 when it's out.

( i think that was how it works, if i'm nubbed on this issue, please do it gently <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> )

pikey · July 2003

ya... you can't run CD with VAC active server... it'll think you're running a cheat.. ez solution.. turn CD OFF...

My_Personal_Insanity · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rage against the Pepsi machine @ Jul 3 2003, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The solution is to not cheat...ever.

You may have had a cheat in the past, that leaves residual data that VAC/CD can pick up, even if you thought you removed it.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Software isn't perfect, as wetware is not perfect.
I've never installed a cheat. I'm not sure exactly where I'd
even go to get one. (Google, I suppose, you can find anything else with it...)
But right after steam was first relased, CS guard on a
TFC server tagged me as a cheater... while using steam
only. My regular TFC install was not tagged. Luckily it
was a server where I am well known and the admins
knew better. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Luxverum · July 2003

so CD won't work with NS 2.0?<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> I hope I don't forget that... :/

Lux · July 2003

You dont understand VAC, there is no magical admin that decides if you cheat or not, there is an **** computer that bans you instantly if you have EVER used cheats or installed programs that modify things that shouldent be modified. I never have, and have never had a problem with VAC.

Id say delete all your **** and buy a new copy of hl.

Luxverum · July 2003

That's crucial... - Nice name BTW

welthqa · July 2003

will a reinstall of hl and NS fix this?
or does it require a drastic windows reinstall?

i wish i knew what it thinks is the cheat so i could delete it.

Birdy · July 2003

cheating death uses the same hooking method like cheats so therefor vac thinks you cheat
solution? don't run CD

Luxverum · July 2003

but in the webbed post at the top of the forum about all the changes in 2.0, it implied that CD would still be used, lemme find it ...
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
O Added icon for Cheating Death (it will display when authorized)
O Added Cheating Death icon for validated players
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
There - so are we still not to run CD with NS v 2.0??? I've never had any trouble with CD, but I sure don't want any either...

welthqa · July 2003

i was running C-D 3.2 when i joined that server. it was still open from the last NS server i joined. it seems messed up that VAC would pick up on CD being a cheat. you'd think they'd account for that.

Birdy · July 2003

using cd on a vac server could get you banned
using cd on a non vac server or cd server won't get you banned

Just download something like hlsw or the all seeing eye and filter all the vac servers from the serverlist

My_Personal_Insanity · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Birdy @ Jul 3 2003, 03:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>using cd on a vac server could get you banned
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
It could? So far all it's done is give me a nice 'hey, turn off
CD before connecting to a VAC server, and read the
manual, you n00b! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>' message... of course, I might
either not be up to date or be more up to date in my
version of cheating-death

Iced_Eagle · July 2003

Well i dont like running CD anyways.... it slows down ur comp by taking your precious resources D:

My_Personal_Insanity · July 2003

I don't run it unless I'm on a server that likes CD
also, or I forget to turn it off going from one server
to another <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

lolfighter · July 2003

Hmm, the easiest and most convenient solution to this problem would be to add VAC-detection code to C-D. The program would detect if you were joining a VAC server and automatically shut down. Can't believe why this hasn't been thought of/done yet.
Different solution would be for C-D not to hook until it discovered you joining a C-D server.
So many possible solutions, none of them used. Why oh why? I'll go check unitedadmins now. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Actually, I see I new way to llama here: Go to a C-D server and tell people to come play on your server (which uses VAC). Those that simply pull down the console and join your server via IP will get banned from all VAC servers for still running C-D. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Edit: Me = nub. This is from the <a href='http://tx3.us.unitedadmins.com/cdeath.php' target='_blank'>official C-D page</a>:
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Unfortunately, the C-D anti-cheat system is incompatible with VAC secured MODs. As of v2.2.0, C-D can work with VAC supported MODs as long as VAC is disabled. Otherwise, C-D will shutdown if VAC is detected.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
It seems like C-D HAS VAC-detection. Unless it was malfunctioning, C-D was NOT the reason for getting banned by VAC.

Ezekiel · July 2003

do none of you read the posts that come before yours? it has been said time and again that if you connect to a VAC server with CD open, you get a nice console message saying something like 'youve got cd running, this is a vac server, turn cd off'

adeninevenom · July 2003

ya, but thats really harsh, even if you did hack =|. It has to be done though, to keep the game legitimate

Stoneburg · July 2003

Is't the first VAC ban temporary? I recall them banning for like 1 week, 1 month, permanent or something simmilar.

Anyway, 2.0 will support VAC, doesn't mean it won't support C-D. It just means that server owners will now have a *choice*.

Salaman · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well i dont like running CD anyways.... it slows down ur comp by taking your precious resources D: </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

You need to upgrade then, if your comp can't handle being out 400KB of memory <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

pieceofsoap · July 2003

There is one simple fact that many of you are missing, and that is that all NS2.0 servers won't necessarily be running VAC. Some CS and DoD admins choose to run CD <u>instead</u> of VAC. Its easy to do. If you dont want to deal with VAC, there will still be CD NS2.0 servers, and if you dont want to deal with CD, you can always go to a VAC server. If you dont want to deal with any cheat detection at all, good luck, you'll need it.

As to the people who get banned by VAC without cheating, check your RAM for errors, as that has been notorious in causing VAC to ban innocent players.

JimBowen · July 2003

IF you get vac banned, just play on CD required servers, because they dont use VAC.

Larson · July 2003

Okay, I have to admin I could not take going through this entire thread, so forgive me
if anyone has said already what I state here:

- VAC does not tolerate any other client side anti-cheat detector as those just work similar to cheats and thus are reported as if they were.
- VAC is only active when the server you connect to has it set to enabled.
If server operators prefer to stay with C-D nothing will change.
- Technically there is nothing that would prevent NS2.0 to support showing approval
icons when running in C-D server mode and also use VAC when server is in VAC mode.

-> use google and read some background before you spam such OMG rumor threads like this

Finally, VAC has not yet stopped any sophisticated cheats. You may just look in the right places
and you will find lots of sample sourcecodes that successfully overcome VAC as well as C-D. It is only a piece of client software as any other and thus as hackable. It only disables the lowlifes of quickling patching up
a cheat from a source code they fetch off the net from someone who has his own brains.
Any possible cheat that can result from improper client feedback will definitely be used at some time.
Anti-cheat strategies can only reduce the number of people capable of creating them, and shifting the
balance of required devlopment time versus gained results.

The actual only one real anti-cheat measure would have been to design the client/server architecture so that
defective and/or client software behaviour cannot result increating any advantage.
But for certain reasons performance and accury were chosen over a robust game architecture.
The ever present network lag, does not allow to implement certain game events in a secure way that would not lag the hell so destroying the illusion of a real-time game environment.
For example the hit-scan system used for enabling the use of sniping and instant hit events, is the sole reason
that aimbot help is so annoying.
Without those weak points in the HL mods game designs even the best hack could only play as good
as a real good player with perfect reflexes, but hardcore gamers can play that good as well, as human intelligence still beats perfect relflexes on a rudimentary real-time AI system as game bots.
Exceptions usually are games whose design is obviously flawed in a way that their actual content is about reflexes and absolutely no brains.... I'm not telling names here, you all know those types of games.

CheesyPeteza · July 2003

If you got banned yesterday it could have been because of using HLAmp. They've reverted the VAC module and the bans have been lifted.

SillyGoose · July 2003

so if your banned by a VAC server you get added to a ban list (sorta like PB?). If thats so my clans server will use CD, I much prefer giving people a second chance.

Forlorn · July 2003

Cheating on NS is miniscule anyhow. No matter how good his aimbot is, an onos or fade will kick his ****.

So no worries!

Vac Support May Exclude Wrongfully

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