Based On General Calculations:
Butt_monkey_salad
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 11006Banned
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 11006Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">Going HA is no more expensive than jet..</div> Well ok its like this, say you have 4 marines (3 and 1 comm):
Going JP/HMG:
25 (research)
9 (x3) jetpacks
25 (x3) HMGS
127
BUUUT because they lack the ability to pass dense OC grids, they will probably have to siege at least once in the game (unless they JP early)
25 (TF)
20 (upgrade TF)
19 (x2) turrets to protect
20 (siege cannon)
103
So thats a total of 230 resources.
NOW, lets look at HA/HMG:
50 (research)
25 (x3) HA
25 (x3) HMG
10 (x3) welder
since they can take many hits, they can chew through OC grids without really needing siege
and thats ALSO 230 rez.
Of course this isn't taking into account the frequency of deaths that would occur in each strat. or the expenses for ammo and health, but you get the picture.
Going JP/HMG:
25 (research)
9 (x3) jetpacks
25 (x3) HMGS
127
BUUUT because they lack the ability to pass dense OC grids, they will probably have to siege at least once in the game (unless they JP early)
25 (TF)
20 (upgrade TF)
19 (x2) turrets to protect
20 (siege cannon)
103
So thats a total of 230 resources.
NOW, lets look at HA/HMG:
50 (research)
25 (x3) HA
25 (x3) HMG
10 (x3) welder
since they can take many hits, they can chew through OC grids without really needing siege
and thats ALSO 230 rez.
Of course this isn't taking into account the frequency of deaths that would occur in each strat. or the expenses for ammo and health, but you get the picture.
Comments
btw, nice to see a NONE 2.0 post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
intresting breakdown you have butt monkey.
In response to this analyzation: what are you talking about? When you JP rush, you NEVER EVER do siege to WoL, you just spam heal while they go through. I mean, I would rather outfit 3 more JPs or even two and one with GL to deal with it than siege. Having said that, I never JP rush. I always HA.
But the idea is, that kind of equipment requires you to somehow save up 230 rez since its all used IN base. With jetpack, you can use that other 103 later and MAYBE not at all but you run a tight risk of losing soldiers to stupidity/ignorance or to dense, unexpected and tough-to-dodge defense grids. But I think my problem is that HMG/JP is the only tactic that has been used since the update where Fades costed 54 (cant remember if it was 1.03 or 1.04) so I know too much about what happens to jetpackers
intresting breakdown you have butt monkey. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative16.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Sorry butt monkey salad, I think I mistook one of the links in the ebaums website. I wanted to post the one with the bunny with the pancake on the head <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Didnt mean to disrespect. :/
Btw, that bunny pic makes me laugh everytime
Read above plz
I actually was in the process of typing that last message when you replied
HA requires teamwork, in a public you dont get teamwork. jp hmg requires 1 or 2 guys to just go shoot the hive. kit a few out and the decent ones will just cruise past any oc defenses. jetpacks are based on speed and suprise. sieging your way in with jetpacks is only a last resort and the siege should be in range of the hive, if not ... you lose.
HA = slow , methodical , bad .
one of the best and more enjoyable ways of commanding ive found. get 2 arms and full upgrades, inc MT. keep marines in the spare hives. if aliens try to put up a hive, get a few marines and siege it. they have full upgrades , so 4 or 5 bites to kill them and they can drop a skulk in half a sec. then just move onto their hive. either siege with 50 cannons (you'll have a lot of res income) or jp it, or just walk in and shoot it.
HA requires teamwork, in a public you dont get teamwork. jp hmg requires 1 or 2 guys to just go shoot the hive. kit a few out and the decent ones will just cruise past any oc defenses. jetpacks are based on speed and suprise. sieging your way in with jetpacks is only a last resort and the siege should be in range of the hive, if not ... you lose.
HA = slow , methodical , bad .
one of the best and more enjoyable ways of commanding ive found. get 2 arms and full upgrades, inc MT. keep marines in the spare hives. if aliens try to put up a hive, get a few marines and siege it. they have full upgrades , so 4 or 5 bites to kill them and they can drop a skulk in half a sec. then just move onto their hive. either siege with 50 cannons (you'll have a lot of res income) or jp it, or just walk in and shoot it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, just be a very strict comm and it does. I find it fine.
HA requires teamwork, in a public you dont get teamwork. jp hmg requires 1 or 2 guys to just go shoot the hive. kit a few out and the decent ones will just cruise past any oc defenses. jetpacks are based on speed and suprise. sieging your way in with jetpacks is only a last resort and the siege should be in range of the hive, if not ... you lose.
HA = slow , methodical , bad .
one of the best and more enjoyable ways of commanding ive found. get 2 arms and full upgrades, inc MT. keep marines in the spare hives. if aliens try to put up a hive, get a few marines and siege it. they have full upgrades , so 4 or 5 bites to kill them and they can drop a skulk in half a sec. then just move onto their hive. either siege with 50 cannons (you'll have a lot of res income) or jp it, or just walk in and shoot it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is NS. 65 some odd percent of the community uses Microphones now so you actually get a decent amount of it even in pubs.
And NO, jetpacks do not ALWAYS getting past OCs (placed in tight spots usually) In way too many cases I have found defense grids too dense to even jet through or too risky to the point that they might choose to siege it even if its no where near a hive. And besides, a gorge will always place at least a few OCs near the hive, meaning risk for somebody jetting around it all the time. Its either that or they get bitten by a skulk while camping on top of the hive. its is NOT as simple as running to the hive and shooting it.
Heavy Armor can take alot of punishment and also replenish it more easily.
Marines can easily get JP/HMG before the aliens can get OC grids up, assuming at least 6 on 6. If you don't, you didn't pull off the strat correctly.
Oh, and 2 turrets will not protect a TF. Seige bases are dear and should be afforded with much more protection including miness, multiple turrets, and possible a phase gate.
HA is good. HA is very expensive, so it should be good. HA takes teamwork. Hope you have good marines.
Yes, JPers can be bitten, but it's really hard to do so when the JPers can hover and zip around for like a minute before finally being forced down. With 2 HMGs firing at the hive the hive'll go down in like 30 seconds. OCs in the hive room? Use meds. Practice healing marines in midair.
So he made animals want to eat us less?
-HA requires high level upgrades to be effective such as minimum weap2, armor2, while jetpacks can be effective with weap1 and armor1
-That is 3 heavy armor's, you need to take into the consideration that NS is a totally different game in a large server vs small server
-Another large vs small issue, if it is 3v3 or 4v4, you only have 2-3 heavies, making it difficult for squad diversity (proper ratio of HMG to GL) and makes welding difficult
-Jetpacks can fly over WoLs and take vents
-If the aliens are just getting their 2nd hive, jetpack is far more effective because of the lack of lerks, fades, webs, and OCs, while HA can plow pretty much any 2 hive alien stand (provided the they work together and are supported by the commander with health, ammo, and required upgrades)
In conclusion, use the right tool for the right job. If the aliens have 1 completed hive, I use jetpackers. If the game has been going awhile and I have decent leveled upgrades, rather than watching jetpackers drop like flies to webs, OCs, and lerks I save for a team of HA.
So he made animals want to eat us less?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He made it so more animals can eat us.
That's not the point though. Why have you tacked on the cost of siege etc. to the JPs? It's not part of the process of teching to JP. Going JP <b>is</b> cheaper than HA; whether it's more reliable doesn't matter.
So he made animals want to eat us less?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He made it so more animals can eat us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So he made animals want to eat us less?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He made it so more animals can eat us.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually, he made it so plankton want to eat us
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now aliens are so good a single skulk can tear at a rambo HA marine with ease. :\
JP is cheap and fast. HA is expensive but can last very long, its tougher.
If you re loosing your JPers too quick, go HA.
If HA is too slow/getting delayed, go JP.
Mix it up and you ll be fine.
are butt monkeis the same as arse goblins or totaly diffrent?
cheers <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
- JP's have their use, HA's do too. JP will give you more bang-per-buck early but later in the game a combination is the best. I prefer having everyone but 1 or 2 in HA, while the JP:ers attack Alien res or do jobs that require speed and flexibility.
- I prefer equipping GL weilders with JP because of their inability in CQB.
- In small teams you need speed more then power so JP will be vital.
- Adapting to your team is the best. If they're a bunch of rambo deathmatchers, JP will be a better investment. If they're a bunch of well-meaning dudes who aren't much for jumping around, give them some HA and tell them to stick together.
- Tear your hair out and scream at the top of your lungs when all your great plans are destroyed before your eyes. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->