Fed Up With Public Marines

kellinjar · July 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">fools should not be suffered!</div> I"ll admit to not having NS for that lnog (2 or 3 weeks now) but i've been playing it fairly heavy.. and one thing I"ve noticed (since I only play pub servers) is well.. people have serious issues..
I'd like to get off the pub servers..so if anyone has a nice friendly ping for a nice friendly guy on DSL.. let me know <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Here are some things I noticed:
1) I can't recall the map..but the marine start has 2 hall ways one left one right..and directly across from the chair is a wall on the otherside of the wall is 2 hallways that lead to a lift.. (yeah I knwo it sounds like everymap) anywho..we were defending not too bad.. and then the commander started dropping jet packs..and a couple shot guns..and lots of mines.. so I asked for an HMG..since I was the ONLY one defending the base.. and the aliens weren't coming hard and fast..but it was enough that I had to really keep on my toes to hold them off..
so eventually someone says they have fades..okay so I ask again.. nothing.. couple minutes go by.. I ask again.. I see a fade..luckily 2 people just spawned..we fight it offf... I ask again.. nope..no HMG (we have lots of resources.. 90+ at this point) .Another fade shows up.. Ia sk again..no we don't need HMG's you nub.. right..so needless to say 2 minutes later we were all dead.. because LMG is useless against fades..especially when there are 2-3 fades with acid rocket..and its you and your dog defending... Immediately following the game they berrated me for asking for the HMG saying that 'I couldn't see the whole map and I was just one marine and I couldnt' do anything' well I protected the base all game..and probably could have continued to protect it if I hadda had the gun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
2) Playing on..hrm.. caged I think.. I don't hav eall the names memorized yet.. I just wander about following orders and shooting things mostly <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> No one wanted to Comm.. so I said sure I'll do it.. I dropped a couple IPs and an armory..that was all cool.. now this map is continually rushed by skulks.. so I thought..hey..lets drop a couple turrets and protect our base.. so I drop at TF.. 'What are you doing nub? Thats soo lame.. you don't need those.. why are you doing that?' (it was probably only about 90 seconds into the game thus far.. ) So I said ' Well I thought maybe we should protect the base? So you guys can attack more advanced positions instead of all defending' about 15 seconds later they booted me from the chair.s.ome other guy took over..cancelled the tf and in about the time it would have taken me to drop 2 or 3 turrets..we were all dead...
3) Mic-Fanatics...whats with the people who start singing songs and basically losing their minds on the mic? They always pick the best times to do this too... the aliens mount a giant offensive..and some little child starts singing a britney spears song..

So yes.. 3 weeks and I'm already a cynic..basically it almost makes me want to stop playing..we only win by blind luck.. IF the team I'm on ever wins... its not from the lack of cooperation..the players are pretty good..but we get constant commanders who have this 'idea' on how we should win..and we shouldn't be using any 'lame' strategies as they put it.. basically a loincloth and a knife is the only non lame thing to them.. but wait..wasn't someone saying knife-wielders are nubs earlier?
so yeah..if anyone has anywhere nice I can play..let me know I"d appreciate it.... sorry for the rant.. I have my own issues..but those do not involve the inserting of my cranial unit in..er..nevermind..

p.s. how did we go from New User to Newbie to Newb, to N0ob to nub? it seems like an odd progression of language <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

Spazmatic · July 2003

One of the problems is a rapid decline in intelligent players. Many people are sitting on their arses soaking up 2.0 information with bated breath, or running around entertaining themselves with the wealth of new mods and new releases of mods, like The Specialists, also in lieu of 2.0. You also have many, many great comms horribly disillusioned by 1.04's inbalances, and either quitting until 2.0 all together, or spending all their time coming up with alternative strategies that, while interesting, have often ended up blinding them to alternatives (of this I am guilty, as when I'm bent on testing out a new res denial strategy to see if it is even remotely viable, I often ignore perfectly good opportunities to do something different).

There are a lot of other reasons, but hopefully it'll all end up being a mute point after 2.0... Or, well, at least hopefully we'll get more of the good commanders back, a*holes will always remain.

Niteowl · July 2003

before one of the many CoFR fans out there (and they are LEGION <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> ) pimps a certain server, might i suggest the Old Fogies servers, there are three, all in my sig. go to the 24/7 one, Prune Juice: pj.oldf.net

i can empathize with yer cynicism, the ides is to slum around the pubs till you find one that is admined regularly, and that's friendly to newbies and vets alike. wait a second, not unlike the OldF servers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

cheers,

BigMadSteve · July 2003

A tip to find good games is usually to play late at night if possible. Most of the kids are sleeping by then.

kellinjar · July 2003

unfortunately I'm in AST zone..so even midnight my time is 8 pm PST <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Turkey2 · July 2003

Ok first welcome to NS its a great game once you get into it. First thing you should know is don't go com or gorge while you are still learning the game. Playing on Cofr or another good server will help you to see good commanders and what they do or try. A tf in base is generally a bad thing as it wastes a lot of precious res. Sometimes relocations with a tf is good but a tf in any marine start is almost always bad. Always tell your team when you are a new commander and ask for help. You will either get help or possibly they will ask you to get out.
unupgraded lmgs are pretty useless against fades but with lvl2 weps lmg can take down a fade pretty easily and even better with lvl3. HMG's are expensive, most good comms have a plan for their res usually saving for either upgrades or to equip a large force so they can take down a hive. Since weapons are so expensive if the comm can tell that you arent the greatest player in the world he will give the equipment to better players to increase your chances of winning. By the time I can give out hmg's I know whos good and whos not.
mic spammers should all be shot
There are many strategies that you can win with, some are now considered lame such as 2 hive lockdown and jp rush. One makes the games usually too long while the other makes them really short, and in both cases a lot of aliens will feel helpless and give up. Use whatever strategy you feel comfortable with and try some more once you can start winning with those. A new version is imminent and both of these strategies should be less viable.
Basically learn the game before you try to lead your team.

kellinjar · July 2003

Right..so following your logic what those commanders/players did was right..which resulted in basically our imminent demise? Turrets WOULD have saved us and given us the chance to live, and bulid up... whether or not they wasted resources..we were dead.. can't use them then can we?
I was the only person defending the base.. I'm quite a good defender as long as I'm supported with some appropriate equipment...there were no turrets or anything..so it was basically me and a LMG (which must not have been upgraded because I empted 2-3 clips into a Fade and he didn't go down... ( I remember the map this was on now too..it was Hera we had the base built in the entrace/reception place)
The only time I had back up was when someone died, they would spawn grab ammo and leave...if an alien attacked during that time they'd help but otherwise it was me protecting hte comm chair..if I had left..the base would have been gone LONG ebfore that...he wouldn't even give me a Shotgun...

Janus_Krug · July 2003

I'd like to point something out.

TF IN BASE ISN'T ALWAYS BAD!!!!!

I was comm on the map with Reactor Room, and we were'nt doing bad. The Kharaa spawned in the room on the far right of the minimap, and we started hitting them. We upgraded steadily, capped tons o' res, and started using JP's combined with HA's for combined Hive Assault (fav trick of mine, aliens never expect it). Anyway, the problem is thus:

HA's rarely die with competent players.
JP's don't spend much time close to base.

Now, we were assaulting their second hive. That was good. However, base was undefended, and even though they didn't have fades (gorge took too much with the gorgeres mod), they just walked past the mines and started chomping. I BARELY survived this. So, I dropped a TF in base, and turreted up my house. What did this do? Well, I explained to the team "Look, do you want a living base, a dead hive, or BOTH?". Turrets got us both. We would have lost if we didn't, as once the skulks rushed us all at once, and everyone died. The turrets saved us.

kellinjar · July 2003

Thank you..see this is a good thing..its not a 'lame' strategy or 'waste of resources' I have been playing long enough to know the map that we were playing on is a constant skulk rush fest....and of course we had a couple rambo's who instead of staying in base took off.. so being 5 on 5 with 2 people out of base... 3-4 skulks did quite a number on the 3 marine's left.. They didn't have cara or anything like that..so a couple turrets would have really saved our bacon...but some people just don't understand the point of base defense..

Turkey2 · July 2003

Ok here's the thing if you cant defend your base with a single marine with a pack of mines or two then you have bigger problems than you thought. Once aliens get cara turrets go down very easily and if you spend the res to make a proper number of turrets then you wont have anything else and get slaughtered by fades. And this is why I said learn the game first play some more, play on better servers with people who know what they are doing. One of the best ways to keep skulks from attacking your base is have a squad of marines attack theirs. I've found shotguns are useless in the hands of new players. The rate of fire is too slow for them and once aliens get cara they cant get enough shots on the targets. Building a tf in base and not getting upgrades and expanding is basically dooming your marines to face fades and or onos.

In 2.0 this will all change as costs of tf and turrets have been dramatically reduced. As of now IT is not cost effective to use a tf in base a single pack or even 2 packs of mines are effective enough early game which is the only time a tf would be effective as well.

Spooge · July 2003

There has been an influx of "know-it-all" players lately. They scour the forums for clan strategies and then expect every server they join to follow "the winning path". They are more than willing to tell every single player on their team what to do but never willing to sit in the chair. Obviously, they're way too important to have their skills wasted commanding.

Fortunately, from what I understand, most if not all of the current strategies will be different in 2.0.

Until then, just keep searching for servers with stable admins.

Turkey2 · July 2003

EARLY game tf's in base are almost always bad, late game when you have the res its not a big deal.

kellinjar · July 2003

Yes wel I wasn't planning on making a career out of TF's and I had dropped mines as well. I KNEW that the skulks would rush once or twice before getting cara, it happens everytime on this map.... and 2-3 turrets would have given us the chance to survive that THEN we could have worked on weapon/armor upgrades...
as it was..no tfs mean we're all dead which means all those resources mean nothing and you can't work on upgrades..
Maybe TF isn't the best strategy for every map..but for that map at that time..that was the best way for us to stay alive.. There was no time to lay complicated mine mazes to blast Skulks from every incoming angel... 2 people instantly left the base, and the remaining two were intent on calling everything lame..

[edit] Ive probably played this particular map about 35 times (i know not hundreds) but here is what I"ve seen so far..from marine side and Alien side.. out of those 35 times the aliens have rushed EVERytime.. The marines have only survived about 5-7 times I"ve played that map... the only times they have survived is when they built TF immediately to help stop the skulk rush, and one time they survived because it was like 9 on 9 and all the marines stayed in the base..so they were little turrets on their own (and they had 3 IP's)
out of those 5-7 times that the marines actually survived the initial rush They pretty much won everytime.. only once did they have a good start strategy then blow it...
(that was the time they didn't build turrets, the marines survived the initial rush..got cocky went looking for RES, didn't defend the base and that was it)

Eclipser · July 2003

There's a difference between TF in marine start <i>at the beginning</i> and <i>later on</i>.

IP + armory + TF + 2 turrets = all your starting res gone, and 2 turrets is still inadequate to cover your entire base

IP + armory + 2 packs of mines = plenty of res left over to either start getting upgrades or to immediately cap some nodes

Later in the game, when you have a couple nodes capped and enough res, sure you can build a TF in your base. But due to the cost in resources that could go towards upgrades or more nodes, starting with a TF is generally considered unwise in 1.04

Of course this debate is only relevant for the next two days....

Turkey2 · July 2003

lol only survived 5-7 times out of 35 and then only those 5-7 due to tf in base? Those must be some awfully stacked teams or awfully nub marines. That is very extreme and does not happen normally on any map in any server I've played at. I guess if your team is so bad that you need a tf to stop initial rushes then wow you didnt stand much of a chance to win with or without. Every once and a while a rush off the bat by aliens in a favorable map for them will result in a win, but not if the teams are even. Please go to a better server, horrible servers can ruin the game for you. I apologize if I've gotten a little frustrated at your insistance that a tf at the beginning is a viable strat. The problem is that I didnt realize how horrible your teamates were.

Janus_Krug · July 2003

You mention that with carapace, turrets are no big deal for skulks. Well, with carapace, they are a bigger deal than mines! A Skulk usually only needs to blow one mine to open a door for his brother skulks to walk in. Another can test the structures, open a hole, and start chomping. Mines don't kill cara skulks, turrets can.

kellinjar · July 2003

I play on random pub servers..never the same server twice..usually.. I was on a good team today and they let me comm.. we kicked some major butt
same map..but we didn't use turrets we just put ALOT ofm ine.s.but really I think we spent more in mines then we would have on turrets...
Plus it was a smaller game 5 on 5.. the map was uhm..the one were marines start in sat com I think it is?
Round room, wiht a lplatform on the back with the comm chair on it..2 ways out...

Church · July 2003

Well smaller games=alien advantage.

Ok, even though 2.0 will be out in a few days I will give you a crash course in 1.04 strats.

Here's why you don't use turrets at the beginning:

First of all, your marines SPAWN at your base, so you have a constant stream of reinforcements.

Secondly, you will always have at LEAST one marine guarding base. If you don't, you are screwed, and even 100 turrets won't save you. Don't you get it? Turrets don't stop aliens, they don't slow aliens down. Turrets also have horrible aim, and can be avoided completely if circle-strafed. At 19 res a piece, they are crap. In 2.0 I think turrets are either 5 or 10 res a piece I forgot AND they have much better accuracy, and improved health to boot. In 2.0 turrets = good idea. Just remember, YOUR MARINES ARE YOUR DEFENSE, NOT YOUR TURRETS OR EVEN MINES! THEY ONLY SUPPLEMENT YOUR MARINES!

Third, you will drop some mine packs around key buildings, such as IPs, protolab, etc, so if the aliens DO get past your base defender, he/they will most likely not survive a mine blast as they go after the buildings. If multiple aliens rush your base and your one base defender gets overwhelmed, then the rest of your team didn't do their jobs right (scouting, etc). Don't forgot to replace mines as they get destroyed. Remember, mines are also a deterrent just like turrets are. The effects are as much psychological as well as physical. You try to bite a marine who is hopping like mad and shooting at you while on a minefield. You will have a hard time doging his bullets AND the mines before you kill him.

Fourth, The more time and resources you spend on defending one location, you less time and resources you have to spend acquiring expansions. You NEED to expand to win! Don't bother putting turrets at res nodes either (unless it's a double/triple res node area that you can protect with one TF). Just lay mines at the base of the nodes so unsuspecting skulks will blow themselves up. And more importantly, have marines patrolling the nodes.

Fifth, try not to be on the defensive. You don't win by defending your opponent to death. PRESSURE the aliens. Give them something ELSE to worry about (like their hives and their res towers) so they don't have time to chomp on your stuff. Remember, early game, marines have an extreme advantage until aliens get carapace. Use it.

Six, don't skimp on the upgrades. Having level 0 weapons when the aliens have level 3 carapace=death for your marines. Even level one weapons help a lot. One or two bullets often decide who dies and who lives. Aliens tend to have level 3 carapce by the 4-5 minute mark. Even earlier if they want to hurt their economy in favor of an early cara rush.

Seven, ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE! Make sure your marines LISTEN to you, and do what you say, or else you will lose badly. An unorganized marin team will die quicker than a a fish without water. This is true regardless whether it's 1.04 or 2.0 or 10.0.

Eight, Aliens, depending on how much you've been pressuring them, and what build order they use, can have a second hive up anywhere from 10-20 minutes into the game. Your goal is to destroy the aliens BEFORE the second hive goes up. That's the name of the game in 1.04, denying the aliens the crucial (and game winning) second hive. Either lock down both hives with lots of turrets, mines, and phase gates (not recommended. It's actually easy to stop a 2-hive lockdown. Also lockdowns are REALLY expensive) or upgrade to Heavy Machine Guns quickly and research Jetpacks, and go equip some of your marines with both so they can fly to the hives and kill it. JPs are overpowered in 1.04. Try to have JP and HMGs researched before 10 minutes is up. This is called the JP/HMG strat. Some people like to do a JP rush, and can actually have JPs around the 4 minute mark, but those are one-shot deals as the whole team goes and tries to kill the hive with LMGs (while flying around) and at 4 minutes there won't be any lerks. JP/HMG is the most efficient (some call it cheap) and overpowered strat in 1.04.

lazygamer · July 2003

I've recently played some great marine games, and seen plenty of decent commanders. Once no one wanted to command so I just hopped in. I had a team of players who had great skillz and knew the perfect tactics to win, they just told me what I want, and I listened. We won too. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
(and the aliens weren't totally incompetents at all, I just had some damn good marines)

The PROBLEM was, I had low FPS later on in the game. So:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
3) Mic-Fanatics...whats with the people who start singing songs and basically losing their minds on the mic? They always pick the best times to do this too... the aliens mount a giant offensive..and some little child starts singing a britney spears song..</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

It takes alot longer with these low framerates to make out what a voice is saying, especially when more than one is talking! Had no one been using voice comm, things would of been easier for poor me.

As for mic abusers, once I played a game with this guy who was being a human beatbox. He was quite good at it, and it was a fun addition to NS. Singing can be funny too, as long as it's not horrible sounding. Beatbox is better though, just make sure you can do it good before you mic spam with it!

P-Khan · July 2003

I'm not an expert in commanding, since I'v only done it 3 times, but I'v managed to learn somethings (at least I hope I did)

TF at beggining of game = bad idea
Mines at beggining of game = good idea
TF later on the game = good idea
Mines later on the game = bad idea

Also, I don't think it's a good idea to constantly keep asking for HMGs. <b><i>Normally</i></b>, the comm would have a strategy, like deploying another base, upgrading armour/weapon, get JP and HA, etc.

And the mic problem.... SHOOT THEM ALL!!! BWAHAHAHA!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Spazmatic · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ill bet u that unless the poor guy is lagging out or afk, u will never do 36 damage per spore. Perhaps 12, or 18.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Had a guy playing disco during Ricochet once... Only time I've ever asked them to PLEASE continue!

SoulSkorpion · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I"ll admit to not having NS for that lnog (2 or 3 weeks now) but i've been playing it fairly heavy.. and one thing I"ve noticed (since I only play pub servers) is well.. people have serious issues..
I'd like to get off the pub servers..so if anyone has a nice friendly ping for a nice friendly guy on DSL.. let me know</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Welcome to the game. Here, have some commas. They're free.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Here are some things I noticed:
1) anywho..we were defending not too bad.. and then the commander started dropping jet packs..and a couple shot guns..and lots of mines.. so I asked for an HMG..since I was the ONLY one defending the base.. and the aliens weren't coming hard and fast..but it was enough that I had to really keep on my toes to hold them off..
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

First rule of playing marines: don't ask for stuff. It's as simple as that. You will learn when to ignore this rule after you play long enough, but for now: do not ask for stuff. More important: do not ask more than once for stuff. There are several reasons why not.
1: The commander has a billion things to concentrate on, besides you. Trying to specifically get his attention for something will generally annoy him, unless you're doing it for a good reason.
2: Guns cost resources, you know. A good way to irritate your commander is to ask for equipment which he can't afford, either because he physically doesn't have enough res or because your team don't have enough res nodes to make it viable.
3: As with both of the above points - the commander can see the entire battlefield, whereas you can only see one corner of it. Giving you equipment to defend base might not be the most important thing to your team at the moment. They told you that, and they were probably right. You have to understand that no matter how important your current situation is, it probably is not *the* most important situation. Even though giving you stuff would probably have helped defend base better, giving you stuff to help defend base better probably wasn't the most effective thing to do.
4: He might not have had HMGs yet. That's one very good reason for him to drop shotguns instead.
5: Commanders seldom dispatch stuff to marines who do not prove themselves useful. I'm not saying you don't know how to handle expensive weapons, but a lot of newbies don't. Commanders are therefore reluctant to give expensive hardware to marines unless they're confident that those marines are going to be worth the investment. Good on you for defending base, though. It's a thankless task, but someone has to do it.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>2) Playing on..hrm.. caged I think.. I don't hav eall the names memorized yet.. I just wander about following orders and shooting things mostly No one wanted to Comm.. so I said sure I'll do it.. I dropped a couple IPs and an armory..that was all cool.. now this map is continually rushed by skulks.. so I thought..hey..lets drop a couple turrets and protect our base.. so I drop at TF.. 'What are you doing nub? Thats soo lame.. you don't need those.. why are you doing that?' (it was probably only about 90 seconds into the game thus far.. ) So I said ' Well I thought maybe we should protect the base? So you guys can attack more advanced positions instead of all defending' about 15 seconds later they booted me from the chair.s.ome other guy took over..cancelled the tf and in about the time it would have taken me to drop 2 or 3 turrets..we were all dead...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

It's common opinion that TFs are a waste of resources, as opposed to dropping mines or spending the resources on something else all together. This is because turrets do very little to stop skilled skulks unless there are a LOT of turrets and\or they're placed very well. Their reaction might have had something to do with how you placed the turrets\TF - if you don't put them in the right spots they are <i>utterly</i> useless.

Anyway, in this case you weren't at fault. If nobody else wanted to command and you volunteered (first of all: good for you. It's a difficult job, and often a thankless one) then they can't complain about you commanding.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>3) Mic-Fanatics...whats with the people who start singing songs and basically losing their minds on the mic? They always pick the best times to do this too... the aliens mount a giant offensive..and some little child starts singing a britney spears song.. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yeah, they **** everyone off. There is a way to mute them under the current patch which is a little buggy (do a seach; you'll find it) and in the next patch muting should work the same as with other mods.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>So yes.. 3 weeks and I'm already a cynic..basically it almost makes me want to stop playing..we only win by blind luck.. IF the team I'm on ever wins... its not from the lack of cooperation..the players are pretty good..but we get constant commanders who have this 'idea' on how we should win..and we shouldn't be using any 'lame' strategies as they put it.. basically a loincloth and a knife is the only non lame thing to them.. but wait..wasn't someone saying knife-wielders are nubs earlier?
so yeah..if anyone has anywhere nice I can play..let me know I"d appreciate it.... sorry for the rant.. I have my own issues..but those do not involve the inserting of my cranial unit in..er..nevermind..</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Sorry to hear that your first few games were so bad. Stick with it, it gets better. There are several topics floating around by people irritated at the lack of good servers; a quick search should find them.

Finally, welcome to the forums, and don't use the search at the bottom - it's broken. Click on "search" at the top of the page.

Church · July 2003

Turrets in late game also=bad

Turrets won't stop acid rocket. They certainly will not stop ONOS.

kellinjar · July 2003

Today we were playing siege006 I'm sure you all know the map... and we were saved by turrets against onos.. not for long mind you..but it did let us get reestablished and have some relief..we had tons of res (like 500) and they dropped probably 20 turrets... and we built them all lickity split..held off the fades with HMG and HA.. and an onos broke through began to reak havoc..we didn't have many options.. we basically had to throw ourselves at him.. and were it not for the turrets weakening him considerably the people spawning with LMG would have had NO chance to take him out... luckily he was the last in a group attack so his back up fades/lerks etc.. were already toast..

Spazmatic · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Turrets won't stop acid rocket. They certainly will not stop ONOS. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Oh yes, and to add to my 1.04 lament, goodbye dropping turrets on charging onos!

Turkey2 · July 2003

lol custom maps are very different if you play a game of siege without a tf or 2 there is something wrong with your comm, thats the whole point of the game. btw lvl2-3 turrets in a serious farm will totally own onos because of slow movement.

bigb · July 2003

Check the sig

elchinesetourist · July 2003

re: first poster

altho you have only 1 day to do it, read these guidelines for 1.04:

1[ never build a tfac in marine start. Never. ever. 'nuff said

2[ good servers:

Evil
CoFR
are generally very good

Nano Gridlock
Absolut
Sleepless
these can be good

and then a bunch of others.. but keep in mind that 2.0 comes out tomorrow ^^ and I remember Fists of Ra (now a beta 2.0 server) was pretty good, so when you get 2.0 you can try that server as well

KMO · July 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (elchinesetourist @ Jul 30 2003, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
1[ never build a tfac in marine start. Never. ever. 'nuff said
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
There are a lot of people in NS who keep coming up with stuff like this, and it is rather unhelpful, not to mention newbie unfriendly.

Somehow certain things like "only 1 gorge" or "no turret factories in base" have become an act of religious faith for certain folks, who then carry on trying to apply this "wisdom" blindly, far beyond any initial applicability the advice may have had. And what's worse, these people raise absolute hell if anyone else on a server doesn't obey.

Now, NS strategies <b>are not religious commandments</b>.

Building a turret factory in base <i>at the very start of the game</i> is generally held to be not a good investment, as the initial outlay to make it worthwhile will be 1 IP + 1 armory + 1 tfac + 3 turrets = something like 125 res. You don't even start with that much - it will slow you down waiting for the res. Much better initially to rely on a few mine packs (3 packs cost about the same as a lone turret factory), 1 base guard, and a stream of respawners to keep base clear.

However, later in the game, when you have more res, a number of base turrets may well be worthwhile. There are those who hold that "turrets are always worthless", but I think they're a little over-macho. Turrets are hard to avoid, can hold back alien assaults long enough to get marines back to the area, weaken them in the process, and aren't as easily dodgable as mines, if there are enough of them placed well.

And 1 gorge <i>at the very start</i> is usually a good idea as it allows the first RT to go up a fair bit sooner. But after that, use as many gorges as the team size and situation demands. 2 gorges is often good between the first RT and the second hive going up as 1 can start saving while the other carries on capping res or whatever. The main thing to avoid is having too few skulks.

If ever anyone says "never" do something, take it with a pinch of salt. Use your intelligence to think out the pros and cons, and apply it to the current situation.

And all of these guidelines only really apply to the very start of the game, where you have well-known initial starting positions. Much like the analysis of opening gambits in chess, where the possibilities are limited and well-tried. But in the mid-game, it's up to the commander to decide what's required. And he shouldn't be getting any lip from marines who heard somewhere that you should never build a turret factory in base.

Actually, I have a suspicion that many of the players who automatically shout "OMG only 1 gorge!!!" on many servers are actually bots programmed to do it just to wind the rest of us up. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Nicator · July 2003

Public marines often suck because of lot of the best pubby players got bored with the imbalances and left. A lot of the best comms have also gone, because they know they can win with ease, without having to devise their own strats.

I'm looking forward to NS v2 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

[OV]Nicator

WarpZone · July 2003

The problem with more than one gorge is when the first gorge is saving up for something and then someone else goes gorge. The original gorge doesn't know WHAT that new gorge is gonna do. All he knows is that he had a plan, and now he can't get res as fast as he thought he could.

Whenever I'm skulking around and I spot an uncapped res in no-man's land, I type "I see an uncapped res at <location,> want me to go gorge?" They always say no, but one time, the then-current gorge said "Fine, but go skulk again right after you do." And I did.

The important thing is, <i>generally</i> under 1.04, one gorge is <i>usually optimal</i> in the middle of a disorganized public match. There <i>are</i> exceptions to this rule, but since you're playing with strangers, you probably have two totally seperate and unconnected plans in mind. So if it <i>seems</i> like a good idea to become the second gorge, please, <b>ask first.</b> And then <i>don't go gorge if he says no!</i>

(Six hours from now, this post will be obsolete. I need a life. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> )

Fed Up With Public Marines

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