<!--QuoteBegin--Poofat+Aug 2 2003, 04:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Poofat @ Aug 2 2003, 04:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I noticed that the little location indicator for marines (on teamsay) still functions in an onos, so if you get eaten you can just spam every few seconds to report its position <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that's actually the most important information in this topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> post it in the bug forums please
just a side note - Devour is ment to take the marine out of action for a time, all part of the strategy of using it. The marine cant respawn right away weaking the forces.
I must agree that it sux when the onos gets redeemed when Im in his belly, he should have to spit me out to be redeemed or something.
Personally, only the 13 year old kids who smoked up the sugar jar (and the helium too it seems) complain about this. I like it, it gives my eyes sometime to look away from my 21" screen, relax my eyes from the burn of natural monitor glare, and get some peace of mind. I mean, god, the newbies are really starting to screw things over. They can't follow orders, refuse to do anything, and just sit in base and **** that the comm "wont drop armor or the big gun." The only people I know of that can get things done are the people who have played 1.04 already. If not, aliens win. ... Devour is fun, balanced, and meaningful. Removing it (or nerfing it in some ungodly way like *you must hold down the attack button with the slippery marine under you for 5 seconds before you eat him*) is stupid. Really, be a good sport and don't do something radical like spam the chat with curse words when you get devoured or start 8 million threads in this forum because some real player with experience came over and ate you. And if you're just complaining under this guise because "the digestion screenie scares my 12 year old mind and made me upchuck my mommies lunch", you shouldn't really be playing in the first place. ... The redemption fix as proposed by reese is good and should be patched. It seems sensible, even though most of the time, the onos is dead if the squad is filled with decent shots before it reaches the HA. The only HA i've seen eaten we're because of new people getting HMG/HA/Welder and then ramboing off saying "I'm gonna kill stuff." Still, include it I suppose, it does seem fair and logical.
Apparently the moderator doesn't like my sense of humor. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
95% of the time i have been devoured, i have been saved within a matter of seconds.
why? i play with people who know how to play as well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
with the possible exception of redemption, devour is not nearly as bad as its cracked up to be. keep your distance, make sure there are ALWAYS bullets flowing into the onos, and with any luck and some competance from your squadmates, you wont become onos feces <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Diablus+Aug 1 2003, 08:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablus @ Aug 1 2003, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually i am very good at devour, so is MANY others, i do in fact rambo into 6 ha/hmgs eat one hop around to dodge most bullets so redempt can save me, by the time u hit around 200 hp u get redeemed, the only thing i risk is running solo into a tf farm with 6 ha/hmg and the /stuck factor plug ins not installed, last game i devoured more than 20 marines and 2 were rescued, one by a tf farm and the other was brought abck to the hive and awaited oc spammage becuase i died from lag <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> , devour is fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes you are good at Devouring <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The best I've seen is Battery: Lotus, he's just a pig, all he does is bark and eat. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously the entire point of Devour is to slow marine spawning, at least that was my impression.
The devour problem is solved by getting shotguns. Shotguns dont slow the HAs, making it easier for you to avoid getting killed. Besides, shotguns are just stronger overall with 2.0, as most aliens depend on melee attacks anyhow. I've seen much more success with shotguns then with HMGs.
Personally ide hate to see the marine be dropped when redemption works. It gives the marines something to be afraid and carful of. Ive played quite a few games and i dont really think its that big of a problem. The only thing i would change relating to devour is make the devouring screen a little transparent.
hmm i might have to take out that file, geting eaten (i still have not yet) will be fun the first time, after that i want to look around <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> as far is digest balanced? heck yah, it's a great counter for HA rushes. Now devour + redempt im not so shure on, but I will leave that up to the designers to figure out, till then travel in groups of 5 or more HA at any time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
To everyone who hasn't gotten it yet, and sadly it looks like it's a lot of people, the basis for 95+% of the devour complaints is the devour/redemption combo.
I don't see how a combo that has next to zero risk and that, if successful, yields a 50+ res loss for a team and a player out of the game for 30 sec can be considered balanced. If the onos fails, oh well, heal up and go at it again. He'll be back trying again in roughly 30 seconds or less. If he succeeds, bye bye HA/GL/welder.
What can marines do against it? Short of spawn camping the hive the onos is redeemed to, absolutely NOTHING.
Devour should work just as it does -even with redemption- but <b>not on heavy armors</b>. As i see it, the real problem that people have with devour+redemption is that it's a 1-hit kill against HAs. Even if the HA has a shotgun instead of the heavier HMG, the opposing onos can still spam stomps and keep the HA in a constant state of immobility. That's what makes this so frustrating and so cheap.
From both a pseudo-realism perspective AND a gameplay perspective, this just doesn't make any sense, and should have never gotten past this supposedly extensive testing. All that metal is just going to be digested? Wrong. Hell, the HA wouldn't even fit properly without killing the beast. Bottom line: HAs cannot be devoured. Everything else about the ability stays the same, and everyone else is fair game.
<!--QuoteBegin--mouth+Aug 2 2003, 02:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mouth @ Aug 2 2003, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From both a pseudo-realism perspective AND a gameplay perspective, this just doesn't make any sense, and should have never gotten past this supposedly extensive testing. All that metal is just going to be digested? Wrong. Hell, the HA wouldn't even fit properly without killing the beast. Bottom line: HAs cannot be devoured. Everything else about the ability stays the same, and everyone else is fair game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Haven't you noticed the marine is spit out after digestion is complete?
I think HA's should be devourable. Last thing you need to be doing is negating another alien skill to heavy armor. If the marine inside popped out when an Onos is redeemed, most of the complaints about the skill would become moot.
I almost always play aliens now, except the time where I played a marine game that lasted for *four* hours (It was I who rescued Phloem! Thank god the commander gave me a HMG or you would have been digested!). So most of you may have seen the inside of my onos gut (40-50 people yesterday). Anyway the upgrade combo I use is.
Scent of Fear + Regeneration + Adrenaline
Scent of Fear: To see if enemies are chasing me, and how many.
Regeneration: I prefer to do hit and runs, so I heal away from combat most of the time.
Adrenaline: So I can stomp more often, rendering marines useless (I love the Jetpackers trying really hard not to make contact with my stomp attack)
Devour is just cheap overall IMO. Totally no-skill instant kills = bad, in ANY game. People complain about the AWP in CS, but it's not the easiest gun in the world to use, and it's utterly useless unless you're standing still with the scope on.
Devour? I'm guarding an area, two HA/HMGer's come around a corner, I stomp, chomp, then either run or gore the remaining HA and accomplices if I feel a bit lucky. This process is even quicker if there's another alien nearby who can help. Meanwhile, mr HA gets to sit around looking at **** until he finally runs out of life and dies...nevermind he could and should be able to blow me to pieces from the inside with that massive **** gun he has.
There's a lot of atmosphere to it, but it's just not fun unless you get a **** from cheap kills. I like the "HA's cannot be devoured" idea, or the "Marine is freed upon Onos redemption" one. The second one seems is more agreeable overall.
The rest of NS 2.0 is awesome. This is about the only problem I have with it, besides that it's no fun to play marines on a pub <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
What i don't get is how HA can be "melted" down as fast as a none HA, also the HA's are powerful right? They do carrie around about a ton of armor with little problem. So why chould't they start puching the inside of the ono? Tell me if your in a set of fully poweredarmor with servos and everything whould you use all that power to puch/kick your way out?
Also the HA is about 7 feet tall about 2 feet wide, WTH is the ono going to eat that, most people about about 5-6 feet tall and they can't hold more then two of there fists in food inside them, so why dose the ono have almost its whole insides as one big hole? A human whould not fit inside of a ono, it whould need to be much larger to do that. Unless it has no other orgens or ANYTHING inside of it.
Onos cost 100 res, they should be allowed to eat Heavy Armours. The idea is stop stop marines from going on rambos, but I agree that marines should be released when an Onos redemptions back to a hive. Maybe increase the digestion time to give his commrades a chance to save him as well.
I don't have a big problem with devour in general (aside from the ridiculous redempt/devour combos), especially being used to break up assaults and take out rambos.
But combined with another major problem in 2.0 I've encourntered a lot so far, it can get very irritating. That other problem? The endless stalemate at the marine base once the aliens have pretty much won (3 hives, all the major nodes, etc) and trapped the marines in whatever location they've put their comm chair (at which point there's nothing to do but spam health, weapons, and ammo and try to organize a defence). This has litterally gone on for hours on the pubs, and its tedious as heck: all the RTS and map control is gone by this point: it's just endless non-stop deathmatching in one tiny area of the map. And the worst are the Onos, who simply waltz in every twenty seconds, devour you, then either run out or redeem instantly back to a hive. That would be okay if it happened once or twice. But given that these stalemates last forever, and given that there is litterally nothing your team can do about it (especially if they have'nt researched jps) it becomes an endless cycle of being devoured, respawning, emptying a clip into a charging Onos, being devoured again, having it redeem, rinse repeat. And again THIS LASTS FOR HOURS. It's exactly the thing that WILL MAKE NEW PEOPLE QUIT PLAYING: they'll feel not only helpless, but that the game easily devolves into yet another chaotic, strategyless deathmatch: and worse, one in which they spedn 50% of the time immobilized and staring at Onos guts.
I definately think that a tiny portion of the devour sprite should be translucent so you can see out (just with a VERY limited FOV out the back of the Onos) It would be great fun to SEE glimpses of your teamates chasing after you, shooting the Onos you're in. It doesn't matter if you can barely make anything out: even SOME motion and sense of movement would make the experience a lot less dull after the 20th time in the last hour.
We've used LMGs....we've used HMGs...we've used Shotguns.... so far, and I've counted, I've only seen 3 Onos out of 134 not redeem away out of a group of 3 or 4 marines filling the onos ful of lead.
<!--QuoteBegin--RpTheHotrod+Aug 2 2003, 03:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RpTheHotrod @ Aug 2 2003, 03:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We've used LMGs....we've used HMGs...we've used Shotguns.... so far, and I've counted, I've only seen 3 Onos out of 134 not redeem away out of a group of 3 or 4 marines filling the onos ful of lead.
You're "answer" isn't the answer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> how true
Comments
that's actually the most important information in this topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> post it in the bug forums please
I must agree that it sux when the onos gets redeemed when Im in his belly, he should have to spit me out to be redeemed or something.
...
Devour is fun, balanced, and meaningful. Removing it (or nerfing it in some ungodly way like *you must hold down the attack button with the slippery marine under you for 5 seconds before you eat him*) is stupid. Really, be a good sport and don't do something radical like spam the chat with curse words when you get devoured or start 8 million threads in this forum because some real player with experience came over and ate you. And if you're just complaining under this guise because "the digestion screenie scares my 12 year old mind and made me upchuck my mommies lunch", you shouldn't really be playing in the first place.
...
The redemption fix as proposed by reese is good and should be patched. It seems sensible, even though most of the time, the onos is dead if the squad is filled with decent shots before it reaches the HA. The only HA i've seen eaten we're because of new people getting HMG/HA/Welder and then ramboing off saying "I'm gonna kill stuff." Still, include it I suppose, it does seem fair and logical.
why? i play with people who know how to play as well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
with the possible exception of redemption, devour is not nearly as bad as its cracked up to be. keep your distance, make sure there are ALWAYS bullets flowing into the onos, and with any luck and some competance from your squadmates, you wont become onos feces <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Having a whole team with HMGs is not going to be a devouring-onos killer,you need diversity,bring the grenade launcher and shotgun.Bring pistols.
If you have every single type of weapon mashing against an Onos,it seems that Redemption works less frequently IME.
But if you ramboed....well,you deserve it alot.
I managed to save a person once and got to dance over the Onos' corpse,and we had HMGs and shotguns.
yes you are good at Devouring <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The best I've seen is Battery: Lotus, he's just a pig, all he does is bark and eat. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously the entire point of Devour is to slow marine spawning, at least that was my impression.
So yeah. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't see how a combo that has next to zero risk and that, if successful, yields a 50+ res loss for a team and a player out of the game for 30 sec can be considered balanced. If the onos fails, oh well, heal up and go at it again. He'll be back trying again in roughly 30 seconds or less. If he succeeds, bye bye HA/GL/welder.
What can marines do against it? Short of spawn camping the hive the onos is redeemed to, absolutely NOTHING.
From both a pseudo-realism perspective AND a gameplay perspective, this just doesn't make any sense, and should have never gotten past this supposedly extensive testing. All that metal is just going to be digested? Wrong. Hell, the HA wouldn't even fit properly without killing the beast. Bottom line: HAs cannot be devoured. Everything else about the ability stays the same, and everyone else is fair game.
Haven't you noticed the marine is spit out after digestion is complete?
Scent of Fear + Regeneration + Adrenaline
Scent of Fear: To see if enemies are chasing me, and how many.
Regeneration: I prefer to do hit and runs, so I heal away from combat most of the time.
Adrenaline: So I can stomp more often, rendering marines useless (I love the Jetpackers trying really hard not to make contact with my stomp attack)
Devour? I'm guarding an area, two HA/HMGer's come around a corner, I stomp, chomp, then either run or gore the remaining HA and accomplices if I feel a bit lucky. This process is even quicker if there's another alien nearby who can help. Meanwhile, mr HA gets to sit around looking at **** until he finally runs out of life and dies...nevermind he could and should be able to blow me to pieces from the inside with that massive **** gun he has.
There's a lot of atmosphere to it, but it's just not fun unless you get a **** from cheap kills. I like the "HA's cannot be devoured" idea, or the "Marine is freed upon Onos redemption" one. The second one seems is more agreeable overall.
The rest of NS 2.0 is awesome. This is about the only problem I have with it, besides that it's no fun to play marines on a pub <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->.
But combined with another major problem in 2.0 I've encourntered a lot so far, it can get very irritating. That other problem? The endless stalemate at the marine base once the aliens have pretty much won (3 hives, all the major nodes, etc) and trapped the marines in whatever location they've put their comm chair (at which point there's nothing to do but spam health, weapons, and ammo and try to organize a defence). This has litterally gone on for hours on the pubs, and its tedious as heck: all the RTS and map control is gone by this point: it's just endless non-stop deathmatching in one tiny area of the map. And the worst are the Onos, who simply waltz in every twenty seconds, devour you, then either run out or redeem instantly back to a hive. That would be okay if it happened once or twice. But given that these stalemates last forever, and given that there is litterally nothing your team can do about it (especially if they have'nt researched jps) it becomes an endless cycle of being devoured, respawning, emptying a clip into a charging Onos, being devoured again, having it redeem, rinse repeat. And again THIS LASTS FOR HOURS. It's exactly the thing that WILL MAKE NEW PEOPLE QUIT PLAYING: they'll feel not only helpless, but that the game easily devolves into yet another chaotic, strategyless deathmatch: and worse, one in which they spedn 50% of the time immobilized and staring at Onos guts.
I definately think that a tiny portion of the devour sprite should be translucent so you can see out (just with a VERY limited FOV out the back of the Onos) It would be great fun to SEE glimpses of your teamates chasing after you, shooting the Onos you're in. It doesn't matter if you can barely make anything out: even SOME motion and sense of movement would make the experience a lot less dull after the 20th time in the last hour.
shotguns > redemption.
Think outside the box. The 200+ people who playtested 2.0 did.
joev.
You're "answer" isn't the answer
You're "answer" isn't the answer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
how true