Anyone Else Besides Me Dislikes The New Maps?

Syringed · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Or is it just me?</div> When I first started playing NS, even though the maps were almost maze like compaired to other mod's maps they had a real "immersive" feeling to them. They just sucked you right into their atmosphere perfectly. I loved them. I've been playing NS2.0 heavily & most of these new maps I just....don't like them at all. Mineshaft being one of them I dislike the most. Can't exactly say why but they just don't have that feeling. Veil on the other hand, is the only new map I enjoy so far. Usually if a server starts playing Origin or Mineshaft I end up going spect or to another server out of boredom.

Anyone else dislike or even hate some of the new maps in NS 2.0? Any other really good 3rd party map you would substitute in place? Personally, I really liked 11th_hour & I think it would of been better than Origin or Mineshaft.

Apos · August 2003

The new maps are definately bigger and made for larger games, but I don't think they are ultimately more confusing than the earlier maps. It took me forever to learn the layout of tanith, and that's one of the simplest maps. The new full screen map helps IMMESNELY for these new maps: if it wasn't for it, I dobt I'd even be able to keep up.

I don't think I'll be able to conclude the real value of these maps until a few weeks of learning go by, and ns_lost is no longer an ironic name.

lolfighter · August 2003

Haven't got much playtime on the new maps yet, but I think they're all done very well. And athmosphere-wise, I think mineshaft's the best of 'em. Sorry, but I can't agree with you.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

Maybe I should mention my most dearly kept rule in here before it gets nasty:

<b>No mapbashing.</b>

If you feel like presenting your opinion in a respectful manner, that's OK, whatever this opinion may be, but the mappers read these boards. Don't even think about "OMG tihs map sux!!!1" posts.

eaglec · August 2003

First first thoughts about the new maps and the new 'feel' to NS in general is that it's been made brighters and more 'comic book'. I have no idea at this point if thats good or bad.

The maps seem brighter and less moody, there are exceptions to this and the details and layout of the maps is amazing.

People are having fun so they must be ok but I do notice some disturbing traits in the stats. In this early stage it seems that some maps contain a heavy bias towards marines/aliens. Lets hope thats just inexperience.

Terakai2000 · August 2003

I think one of the biggest reason why you don't feel sucked intot he environment of the map/game is that you have more experience now playing NS 2.0 then you did when you first started NS. I personally am no longer scared as a marine because I know where aliens are likely to hide and what to expect most of the time. Albeit that kind of sucks, its the price you pay for having experience.

The first time I played the new maps I really didn't enjoy the experience because once again I was lost and confused and did not know how to get to "insert name" room where my teammates are. (Thank god for the minimap though, helps a great deal and not just on location either) But even with the minimap, it was still confusing. But after playing a while and getting used to them, I'm really starting to enjoy them.

Contrary to your post, I really like mineshaft's mood and environment. Perhaps you should use the gamma adjust to lower your screen brightness. I did and it made all the difference for me in upping the atmosphere of the game. Mineshaft and lost provide for some of the best atmosphere in any maps I've played in although they are a bit rough on beginners. I think you like Veil more because its a relatively easy map to learn compared to the other three.

Just keep at it, I really think they're great maps. You just have to take the time to learn them like you did with the older NS maps. long live ns_nancy btw

lolfighter · August 2003

Oh how I love the new, brighter maps. Playing a dark game with the sun shining almost directly on your monitor is like eating soup with a fork.

RuBy · August 2003

I'm beginning to like all the new maps. Having played on ns_lost before 2.0 was a good thing at least to get used to it. I think its a pretty good map, my only complaint is that the textures seem very repetitive...

I haven't mastered mineshaft yet but it looks like a very atmospheric map and has a lot of small spaces that make it hard to go around as onos but I think I'll get used to it.

Origin is ok it has some very nice areas with good detail it just lacks... atmosphere. I think it might be the lighting or the textures. I'm not sure but something makes it a bit less appealing than most other maps, which I find really too bad because there are lots of really neat areas like Biodome or Xenoform Research.

And veil finally is probably my favorite new map maybe because eclipse was on of my favorite maps. The only thing I find that lacks in veil is detailing. Some areas seem a bit boring a few extra screens and gadgets would be really nice. Lighting-wise its really an amazing map though.

briDge · August 2003

My favorites are Veil and Origin... I like both of them but I find very few servers run Origin.

On the other hand I strongly dislike the changes to Hera. You said no mapbashing and I didn't plan to, I'd just like to contribute a bit of constructive critisicm about ns_hera. There is really only one problem with it, and its quite simple. Marine start. Marine start has only one res node (that is not the one that comes with marine start) nearby in Cargo Storage, and even that is quite difficult to defend due to the narrow entrance and vents/doors from Ventilation, Processing, and more.

But the lack of res within 2 minutes travel of the marine start is the smaller problem, the bigger problem is the new helipad res that was added. The problem with this res lies in lerks. If a lerk with regeneration successfully flies through the marine start and to the helipad res he can continually bombard all marines in marine start with spores and spikes. If a marine runs after the lerk, he simply flies away and into the air, and then lands down <i>behind</i> the transparent tunnel leading outside of marine start, and he is untouchable until jetpacks are researched.

esuna · August 2003

I must say, i really like the new maps. Especially ns_mineshaft and ns_origin. I also like the fact that they're new so i'm sitting back and having to get waypointed everywhere. Being backed into a corner by an Onos when you have no idea where you are just gets your blood flowing a bit. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I have only two problems with the new maps however. The first of these is that it's confusing playing one of the old maps and finding areas completely changed. I feel the biggest offender for this is ns_caged. While it is still roughly the same, i still get confused. This will change with time when i've played on it a bit more. The second problem, i feel personally, is ns_veil. I won't start mapbasing at all, i'm just not keen on it. That may change with time however, i'll get a few more games on it in and see how i feel then.

eaglec · August 2003

Sounds like a problem although it would take ages for a lerk to take down the res tower with spike so it might be best to ignore him ?
Failing that you could try turrets or my old favourite the GL. With it's new sight I've been getting a lot more accurate and you should be able to bounce it round to the hiding lerk <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
Here's a question, can the lerk change to a gorge while out of site and then hit the platform with bile bombs?

th0r0n · August 2003

It's hard getting used to the maps... I still love a game of ns_nothing more than anything else, I hardly see any of the old stock maps in rotation anymore.

the new maps are lovely though, look forward to getting to know them.

One thing, eclipse, noooo! I can't believe it's been changed! maint is crazy now and that base seems to make it easier for marines to turtle in for 15 hours while onos get gunned down by 2 sentry turrets.

airyK · August 2003

my main problem with not disliking the new maps is this: they are new maps and im not used to them yet. over time i think ill grow to love them and enjoy there greater size. the eclipse change kinda confused me and angered me at the same time, now im used to the changes but i wish they didnt change the marine start, i thought the marine start they had was very nice.

Lerks - you just need to learn that the lerk isnt much of an assualt class, but rather a support class w/umbra and spores also primal scream. always have a good lerk while assualting a base thats how i see it....

wlibaers · August 2003

The complexity is higher indeed. ns_nancy used to be the anti-newbie map due to the vent system, but I find some of the new ones are even more complex. The maps are useful, but 2D, so you miss a lot of important information unless you actually go into that place. Such scouting has to be done on a one-man server or spectator mode, as you can't take the time to search good camping spots while there are turrets in the room.

I do like the maps, but it's not easy. There also seem to be some stuck issues. On (IIRC) ns_lost there's a round platform with a res close to a wall with a small gap between it, looks lke this:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
\
\
\
______________ |
res platform ] |
______________] |
|
/
/
/

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Well, fall in there as a gorge and you're stuck (skulk lerk and fade can get out with their special movement abilities, but the gorge can't jump out and can't fall through).

Some vents are also hard to blink into as a fade.

The main problem, though, would be the half-map lockdown. With some vent welding and the new superturrets at a few locations ( something like 3 on the new eclipse) it becomes possible to get a barrier that aliens can barely cross. Behind that barrier, the marines have little to worry about and they can quickly kill aliens that get through because they're weakened and probably have no backup. The more complex maps are nice because they reduce the probability of getting everything blocked like that. When we get to know the maps better, that complexity can become a good thing, expecially now that the fade is the ruler of the vent systems with the new blink. I do think the weldables should be breakable by an alien if he's committed to it, maybe a progress bar like with welding, but the opposite.

briDge · August 2003

The problem with the turrets and GL idea as far as anti-lerking on hera, is that it takes less than 2 minutes for a skulk to go from 25 res to 30 res and morph into a lerk, and fly to the place previously mentioned. By 2 minutes, most marine teams have just left base looking to secure res nodes. And thats when the spore bombardment begins. anyone who spawns is lucky to leave base alive unless they ignore getting ammo at the armory. if the lerk knows what he's doing he's invincible. I did this myself after first watching it, and in a game that the marines SHOULD have won, I racked up over 30 consecutive kills from my perch outdoors using spores.

I killed any of them that came after me, and most that spawned.

Dr_Awkward · August 2003

Question: how do you get the full-screen map to come up, as a poster above mentioned, and I remember seeing on readyroom.org?

Demented · August 2003

Check your controls. By default, the command is C. The map is great stuff, incredibly useful as well with all those new maps waiting to be learnt.

kuperaye · August 2003

however made ns_veil is my new hero that map is frikkin AWESOME it dominates the other new maps. i like mineshaft but its not as fun on aliens for me as veil

STELTH69 · August 2003

I think Mineshaft is one of the better maps. Such stunning detail and playability. Saucy and sexy. mmmm...

Xzilen · August 2003

11th Hour was completely unbalanced towards marines in 1.4

It may not be so anymore.

Mineshaft is amazing, the sleeping quarters, cafeteria, I love it!

Perhaps you just need to give it some more time.

Spazmatic · August 2003

I love Veil, probably because it's the only one of the new maps I understand. I'm sure Mineshaft and Origin will come with time (I mean, look at me, I've gotten stuck in the same room of Mineshaft as onos like 10 times already), but for now I rely entirely on the minimap and praying that the little pathway shown isn't a vent, and goes where I actually want it to go. They're very nice generally, though, just hard to understand (love the area outside marine start in Mineshaft, especially for sensory ambushes).

Nophel · August 2003

What I really hate is that all these maps have spots where you can get stuck, and the only solution is to kill yourself because unstuck won't get you out.

SentrySteve · August 2003

I think that maybe some of your problems about maps that used to have "had a real 'immerse' feeling to them" might be due to that fact that in order to cut down on entity loads the new maps don’t have that "awe" to them that the old ones first had. (and if you noticed, the old maps also had some things cut out of them in order to make things smoother) Maybe that is why you feel that these new maps arnt doing it for you. I, personally, enjoy all the new maps (the updated version of lost is nice, mineshaft is decent and veil is good times) except I have some game play problems with ns_origin. That map is not Onos friendly at all. There is only one way out of each hive as an Onos (better hope they are on that side or else you have to go around -- if you can), there is a massive vent system that I've seen marines use more than the aliens - and once the marines are in the vents - Onos is worthless, also in the ventilation hive I've seen many-an-onos get stuck after redeming on the railings. In the big picture, its a small thing - but when I am Onos on this map it just frustrates me.

MrMojo · August 2003

I like the new maps. Mineshaft, so far, is my favorite from the new ones. ( I'm not counting lost, because I played it a lot on Cofr and other servs.) You dont get the "immersive feeling" because you're used to the game, so the maps dont have that "wow" factor.

moultano · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wlibaers @ Aug 3 2003, 08:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The main problem, though, would be the half-map lockdown. With some vent welding and the new superturrets at a few locations ( something like 3 on the new eclipse) it becomes possible to get a barrier that aliens can barely cross. Behind that barrier, the marines have little to worry about and they can quickly kill aliens that get through because they're weakened and probably have no backup. The more complex maps are nice because they reduce the probability of getting everything blocked like that. When we get to know the maps better, that complexity can become a good thing, expecially now that the fade is the ruler of the vent systems with the new blink.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think that this specifically is what the new fade was designed to combat. Think about it, he can get past encampments without taking a hit with blink, he can get pretty much anywhere on any map in seconds. He also at 2 hives can heal himself without any friendly support. He's fairly self sufficient as a harasssment unit. Next time this happens, try getting a few fades behind enemy lines to distract them while lerks gorges and onos take out their forward bases.

Of the new maps I think mineshaft is the most confusing, but also the most visually stunning. Every single location on that map is screenshot worthy. My most memorable moment in 2.0 so far was on mineshaft. Me and a small squadron of marines were approaching one of the hives. THe room was empty when I got there and one of my squadmates remarked, "I guess they haven't built it yet." Then on a whim I started firing, and chambers and a hive started materializing all over. The whole sequence was absolutely perfect and movie worthy thanks in part to the visuals on mineshaft.

Veil has great gameplay, and while it doesn't feel like a real place in the way a lot of the others do, its got that rich silky smooth blood lighting that looks oh so polished and KFS's impeccable brushwork and texturing. Whenever I'm running around in that I feel like I'm going through a giant rectilinear circulatory system.

Lost has some incredible ambience. The texturing and lighting is much improved from the earlier releases. This might sound a little funny, but Lost goes with the new music perfectly. Every location in it is memorable. ( Those hallways with the little blue lights are oh so sexeh!) Great use of space windows.

I do think that a number of places in Origin could use more detail, although I've heard that he intended more but clipnodes prevented it. It has really good gameplay and a great variety of locations. I wonder if making some of the curves a little more discrete would free up resources to be used in detailing other places. I think origin is going to be one of the easiest to learn because the locations are all so distinctive. My best games so far have been on origin.

Jefe · August 2003

I agree, a lot of the maps have lost their dark, immersive feeling (or maybe I miss Nancy <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> ). I think it's because I use the minimap too much to navigate, though. Sure, the minimap is great, but takes away from some of the suspense in NS.

Quaunaut · August 2003

I love all the new maps. And the one a lot of people don't like, Mineshaft, I think is great.

Jedisar · August 2003

Mineshaft has a great layout...but I had a llama gorge trap me in a hive by spamming OC's at the two entrances.

MEShootHere · August 2003

Well to give an honest opinion, 2.0 is a new game in many ways, not only the engine but also the maps.
To me it seems confrontation is always more imminent and that there is less "room" in these maps, overall it seems the corridors are more cramped and even the big areas are smaller.
It could be that I am just imagining things but that is how they FEEL.
This is not a bad thing, merely different.
As a cloaked skulk I seem to have much less "play" when it comes to running and hiding than in the 1.x series. Once more, may just be me.
On the other hand I will say that some of the maps that got a makeover now look AMAZING. Some of the fx/lighting is just plain amazing.
Couldn't say if I like the new maps or not right now because it will take time to get used to them.
Just my 2c.

ME!

MasterEvilAce · August 2003

mineshaft is complex as hell... i kept losing my way, and the geometry itself is just messed up.. ladders in really weird places..
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
___
|
| <--- Ladder
|
|__
|
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
annoying to use considering the bottom part is a small ledge..

i don't really like the new maps...

MrMojo · August 2003

I think I know what you mean, but it isnt a problem for me. I really like mineshaft because it seems like such a small compact map, with tunnels and low cielings. Seeing as how the other maps are pretty big, it's a welcome change.

Anyone Else Besides Me Dislikes The New Maps?

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