Turret Farm Of Terror
SoulSlayer
Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18881Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18881Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Big Farm on Caged</div> While I agree that the scale of the balance issues will take several weeks to fully ascertain, I do have an immediate observation.
The turrets in 2.0 have been raised to an insane level of accuracy on both alien and marine sides, something I feel was strongly warranted. I don't know how many alien or marine turrets I'd snipe from around a corner without being fired upon.
With that said....
The setup:
I encountered a game on NS_Caged that lasted over 100 minutes PAST the point where the game was decided. The aliens had contained the marine's and allowed them no egress from marine start (vent was welded and aliens were camping exits to sewer and generator.) The aliens had secured every res node except for marine start and had constructed every hive and at least 3 of every upgrade structure. The marine base was occupied by no less than seven marines and one commander versus eight or nine aliens. The base had an observatory close to its exit but still shielded by walls which negated cloaking within a reasonable distance from the start zone. Additionally, sieges were placed near the exterior perimeter of the base to prevent battle gorging or close healing stations. Marines had full upgrades and several had HA. Their base had no less than 15 turrets in it.
The dilemma:
With the marines recognizing their fate they were hesitant to leave their base and hoarded their gear. They made several attempts to leave base when they were fully armed to no avail as they left the comfort of the turrets they were all devoured. That said, it was next to impossible to enter their base as an onos. You couldn't even get close to a turret with carapace and celerity. With all 15 turrets trained on you their kill rate is astonishing. A lerk flying by the opening to umbra was immediately destroyed by the turrets. What should you do in this instance? The game lasted until I couldn't take it anymore and left. The aliens were defeated by a stalemate worse than any in 1.04.
What's the strategy to try and coordinate amongst the aliens.
It's too far to bile bomb and the gorges get rocked.
You can't onos it.
Fades got owned by GLs.
Try it watch how long you can keep the aliens at bay...
This is probably not a strategy the vets and playtesters tried very often as turret farming is mainly a pub activity.
With kind regards,
SoulSlayer
The turrets in 2.0 have been raised to an insane level of accuracy on both alien and marine sides, something I feel was strongly warranted. I don't know how many alien or marine turrets I'd snipe from around a corner without being fired upon.
With that said....
The setup:
I encountered a game on NS_Caged that lasted over 100 minutes PAST the point where the game was decided. The aliens had contained the marine's and allowed them no egress from marine start (vent was welded and aliens were camping exits to sewer and generator.) The aliens had secured every res node except for marine start and had constructed every hive and at least 3 of every upgrade structure. The marine base was occupied by no less than seven marines and one commander versus eight or nine aliens. The base had an observatory close to its exit but still shielded by walls which negated cloaking within a reasonable distance from the start zone. Additionally, sieges were placed near the exterior perimeter of the base to prevent battle gorging or close healing stations. Marines had full upgrades and several had HA. Their base had no less than 15 turrets in it.
The dilemma:
With the marines recognizing their fate they were hesitant to leave their base and hoarded their gear. They made several attempts to leave base when they were fully armed to no avail as they left the comfort of the turrets they were all devoured. That said, it was next to impossible to enter their base as an onos. You couldn't even get close to a turret with carapace and celerity. With all 15 turrets trained on you their kill rate is astonishing. A lerk flying by the opening to umbra was immediately destroyed by the turrets. What should you do in this instance? The game lasted until I couldn't take it anymore and left. The aliens were defeated by a stalemate worse than any in 1.04.
What's the strategy to try and coordinate amongst the aliens.
It's too far to bile bomb and the gorges get rocked.
You can't onos it.
Fades got owned by GLs.
Try it watch how long you can keep the aliens at bay...
This is probably not a strategy the vets and playtesters tried very often as turret farming is mainly a pub activity.
With kind regards,
SoulSlayer
Comments
You know your team has won, and that the marine's were just prolonging the game.
He's only asking for help, yet his topic is locked:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=40930' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=40930</a>
edit: I had a post above that has mysteriously disappeared. I like it when admins delete my posts and I have no way of knowing who did it or why.
We have a large influx of new players, and a lot of old players who are still adjusting to 2.0. There are a lot of repeat topics, a lot of flame-filled topics, and a lot of topics about "balancing" a game that no one really knows how to play yet. We're trying to keep the redundancy, flaming, and whining to a minimum until people have time to really sink their teeth into 2.0.
Discussing is suspended until everyone agrees that 2.0 is perfect.
Tonzak, you strike me as an idiot. Someone who intentionally seeks ways to be a victim, so you can gripe about it. I'm surprised the admins are being as patient as they are by <b>explaining</b>, with perfect logic, why they are locking all these threads and discouraging discussion <b>for the moment</b>. Grow up and do something constructive, such as taking time to understand 2.0 and its balance, if you're going to post.
<i>Edit: minor spelling problem</i>.
The Jaded Cynic is the Level-3 mutation available to NS forum members
Of course they are. That's <i>their</i> path. Don't worry, you will soon be ready to evolve to Level 4: Disconnected Commentator.
p.s. use teh search feature and you may discover the 10+ threads on whatever you're whinging about this time etc. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
also-- after being stuck at caged a few times with 3 hives and a turret farm in marine start I've found a good tactic is to use the recommended strategy of onos+lerk+gorge AND have 1 fade at each corner of the room acid rocketing the marine turrets. they really cant withstand an assault like that for more than fifteen minutes to half an hour.. the fades can shoot basically the whole base from those corners so its not so bad.
As for:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because the marine's may be stalemating doesn't mean your team can't F4.
You know your team has won, and that the marine's were just prolonging the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought one of the points of 2.0 was to get rid of the marine stalemate when they relocated to a hive. With the scenario illustrated in my post they haven't locked down any hives and we've reached a deadlock. F4ing is not supposed to be an endgame strategy.
SoulSlayer
And what is the essence of this game ending move? Teamwork! Now we don't want that sort of thing do we now. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because the marine's may be stalemating doesn't mean your team can't F4.
You know your team has won, and that the marine's were just prolonging the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought one of the points of 2.0 was to get rid of the marine stalemate when they relocated to a hive. With the scenario illustrated in my post they haven't locked down any hives and we've reached a deadlock. F4ing is not supposed to be an endgame strategy.
SoulSlayer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
remember the search feature? you didnt use it did you?
been there, discussed that etc. etc. Its been said and argued that this is a problem and no amount of additional procrastination will help. *goes gorge and taunts soulslayer with lewd bumdancing* <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
I assume that in non-tournament mode the "intended" game dynamics don't dictate that every person on a team must be skilled to win? Change the rules however you may for tournaments but I think on average non-tournament games should assume highly mixed skill levels. Please note however, the team clearly exhibited enough team work to gain all hives and resource nodes. Getting people to run to an assured death is a different story when they've gestated to a beloved onos.
Cheers,
SoulSlayer
theres nothing else to do.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree it's an unpleasant scenario; the underlying problem is allowing a marine team to build up resources to begin with without making a concerted attack. As players get better at working as a team, games like this will end before the marines even have time to set up turret farms.
I too agree- you must have teamwork to do this. As the guy before said- 3 gorges bile bomb. Have 1 lerk for umbra. Tada.
Just needs teamwork. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
do it as a complete team 4 or 5 times and see whats left of the marinebase .......
Great point. I will admit the game started in an untraditional manner where only 6 people were playing total. This allowed the marines to get more res than is normally allowed.
I think the consensus is to have some fades just keep nuking the marine start around the corners and running from grenades. I've also seen some interesting posts saying 3 bile bomb hits will take out a turret. I certainly plan to research this as maybe we should have had more gorges running to their deaths rather than onos. The fact that skulks had a tough time getting near the towers to xeno them was disheartening but possibly a key learning is that we should save xeno for the heavies rather than the buildings as we did in 1.04.
Thanks for the advice,
SoulSlayer
I'm not sure that's a problem.
I think it acts as a detterent to a gorge soloing an outpost. The gorge needs somebody to get his or her back while they get in close enough to nuke the outpost.
SoulSlayer
Anyway, when I first started to play 2.0 I thought fades and onos were soo fragile, but I have actually learned to use them and now only getting killed in lag spikes <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->