Mineshaft is so marine-friendly, double res is super close to tram tunnel (I think, the hive at the top of the map) and is extremely open, thus is a great place to relocate or rush to at the start of the game. Onos find it difficult to move through the map, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--Terr+Aug 4 2003, 11:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Terr @ Aug 4 2003, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have to agree that mostly I've seen Alien victories as well, and I think several good points have been raised here. <ul> <li>Firstly, the importance of hives versus nodes has really changed a lot. Hives don't seem to be quite as wonderful to gain or as deadly to lose. <li>Secondly, I have hardly EVER seen the marine team use sensor sweep, let alone build extra observatories. I think once using sensor sweep begins to become in vogue, we'll see a lot more effective marine work on the offensive side. I've managed to take our some Marine fortifications by patient application of cloaking and turret-shadow. <li>Also, it's a map thing. Players are still learning all of the nooks and crannies for skulks to hide in, which means the players on the marine team are temporarily at a disadvantage against ambushes until the maps become better known. This is compounded by cloaking/lack of sensors. <li>The alien teams are (surprisingly quickly) getting over their 1.04 habits in regards to gorges and resource nodes. I see lots of nodes going up real fast on the Kharaa side. This further inflates the current game win ratios for the alien side. </ul> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Terr hit it on the head.
Once both teams learn the map layouts and correct usage of the rooms therein, the teams will become more balanced. In a new map, it is easier to find an ambush spot as an alien than it is to anticipate an ambush spot as a marine.
New maps are tough on commanders too. They don't know the hive locations, they don't know where to secure, and they don't know the layout.
Both teams have gone through massive changes. It's been easier for the aliens to adapt to the new strategies than it has been for the marines.
In the two games I saw clear marine victories, the first thing our commander dropped when advancing was a sensor sweep and a following obs. When we moved as a group, he layed down sensor sweeps for us. It just worked.
But its almost always when the marines have a bad comm. The aliens have been winning more, but the ammount of new player in NS rushing the marine door is stagering. Ive especially seen some bad comms. When i comm, marines usually win 70/30. And im really not that good. Im pretty average, i just dont make stupid mistakes. And yeah ive seen alot of bad comms using old strats like 2 hive lock down. Just getting the res in those hives and letting aliens expand all over the place. You lose very quickly this way in my experience. Youve gotta keep those whacky aliens under 3 rt's if you want to stand a chance.
<i>to tell the<b> truth </b>its going damn well.. with my <b>[I]commander skills </i></b>i havent lost 1 game yet.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> , but yeah... marines been losing pretty damn much everytime i enter in the middle or later game usually were losing to <u>ONOS</u> cause they get em so damn fast... you should of made this topic a poll.. But the point is
this game has only been out for 5 days.. new comers to natural selection are still learning.. so you guys shoulden't really expect damn good comms ..
cya in the <i>battle field</i> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
This thread is to compare the marine and alien wins. From what I can gather by the people who have actually posted real recorded numbers and not subjective estimates, it's about 30/70 when being optimistic. Now this may change after people get a feel for the game, but that's what it is about now.
Something I want to remind everyone of. There is a margin of error for true balance(I can't prove it, but it's very logical to assume so). NS could be truly balanced, yet one team could still average out winning 60% of the games(maybe even 70%, but no higher).
Well i do know that Aliens are winning far more games than marines.
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a> shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens)
On our servers, it was more or less pure alien pwnage for the first couple of days. But now we're getting used to the tech tree etc we're getting a much more even amount of wins for either side. It's just taking longer to adjust to the new marines, but it's definitely getting there.
The times I've seen marines win, they have set up resource towers extremely quickly. I think that is the trick to marine victories. The game I was playing yesterday the marines were completely destroying the aliens doing this. The commander was extremely good however, from what I can tell he was stationing groups of marines in central locations so they could quickly respond to any attacks on res node. (I only seemed to get 10-20s worth of munching before my **** got blown off). They were slowly sweeping the map in HA/HMG when I was kicked (it was a preview of a subcriber server, can't remember which one).
I think this sort of rapid expansion is key to marine victories.
Also I think rambos are far more detrimental to marine sides due to the res for kill situation. Since res kills aren't shared, it means a single alien can build up a decent amount of res before going gorge, and therefore build a whole outpost as opposed to just a res tower and a hive. This avoids the whole loss of res for changing back and forth between skulk/gorge
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone should record winning stats by week.
Week 1 - A = # - M = # Week 2 - A = # - M = #
Do that and see how it levels out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Will do.
I personally have a 32% marine win ratio so far. (50 games)
<!--QuoteBegin--RabidWeasel+Aug 5 2003, 06:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Aug 5 2003, 06:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Mineshaft is so marine-friendly, double res is super close to tram tunnel (I think, the hive at the top of the map) and is extremely open, thus is a great place to relocate or rush to at the start of the game. Onos find it difficult to move through the map, too. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> but you see from the stats its probably the most balanced map for the current state of play. Tanith and Bast on the other hand area marine disaster area.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bry+Aug 5 2003, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bry @ Aug 5 2003, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well i do know that Aliens are winning far more games than marines.
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a> shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> looks like your marines have sussed viel but are still struggling with mineshaft - perhaps we can arrange a student exchange <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--eaglec+Aug 5 2003, 06:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eaglec @ Aug 5 2003, 06:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Bry+Aug 5 2003, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bry @ Aug 5 2003, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well i do know that Aliens are winning far more games than marines.
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a> shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> looks like your marines have sussed viel but are still struggling with mineshaft - perhaps we can arrange a student exchange <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hehe na the marines have only won once on veil when im playing on kharaa
The game appears to be balanced but the players never tend to be and some maps make the alien favoritism even worse. Honestly in 1.04 even though marines were overpowered aliens still tended to win more on pubs. I've been checking the stats on my favorite server and a lot of the inequity comes down to maps. Through 6 days 155 alien wins 66 marine wins, in 1.04 the server ratio was about 2 to 1 aliens so it has changed a bit. Tanith 3 marines and 19 aliens. eclipse 11 marines 21 aliens. caged 14 marines 15 aliens. Lost 6 marines 18 aliens. Bast 2 marines 20 aliens. Hera 6 marines 19 aliens. Origin 6 marines 8 aliens. Mineshaft 2 marines 12 aliens. Nothing 7 marines 10 aliens. veil 9 marines 13 aliens. Kills were pretty random as marines led half of the maps (in 1.04 they led all the maps in kills). IF there was this much difference I would have to suggest some inequity in map balance. Some maps are almost even while some are very onesided. I'll take Hera as an example, its a map we all know with a few slight changes. 2 ways out of base until cargo is open or they have jp's for the one vent. So early game sens ambushes are very prevalent even just plain old ambushes in the dark hallway leading to vent are often successful, much to the point that almost noone goes that way anymore unless it is very early on. I always hide a sens in that hallway with an o tower or 2 and that o tower is there almost all game and I get maybe 4 or 5 kills. So basically you put all your forces on hera side and marines are boxed in coupled with a gorge rush to holo and aliens tend to own the entire map very quickly. Not to mention the landing pad res node almost has to be electrified becaue it is so far away and skulks can easily get in and chomp it down.
as you can see all the new maps are fairly close except mineshaft.
I really think that things will even out once the marines get to know the maps better AND commanders get more 2.0 experience.
2.0 commanding takes some getting used to.
Without a really good commander the team falls apart. Commanding without a microphone really isn't an option. :-D (I've seen WAY too many commanders that never talk)
out of the 40 or so games I have played so far I would say its something like 60%/40% for Kharaa. I Chop this up to the fact that being a Kharaa is alot easier now then it use to be and being a marine has become alot hard for people becasue no one is use to working as a team yet! Give it time and you will see the commander will get better, the players will be smarter. But I still think it will never be 60%/40% for Marines
On our server with few good comms its roughly 50/50 with some wonderfull non-rush victories when marines died only couple times thanks to great coop and comm. Also marines have great advantage on new maps, winning almost every game there on our server. (Games have usually 14-16 people involved). It really depends on team cooperation, it's not so hard to convince marines they should work together, after couple of initial games we seen no marine rambo at all, everyone went to WP, sticked together within hist squad and waited there for further orders.
the way i have experianced it was marines were winning quite abit when 2.0 was just out as aliens didnt really know how the gorge/building works now. after that it kind of became aliens winning abit more than marines, now the past few days i have neva seen marines win. That really kind of seems bad. fair enough marines are gonner get better with strat but aliens still are gonner increase. When i play the aliens it seem to be like SCs, DCs then MCs once they relise that MCs are really good for attacking, aliens then are gonner boost up abit more.
I've kept count of alien/marine wins, but not by map (will do however).
So far I've seen 16 marine wins to 56 alien. Marine wins tend to be when the aliens don't all mass gorge at the start (IE alien stupdity) more than anything special on the marine team. That's how I won as comm, I punished the aliens for hive whoring rather than res whoring <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Fina+Aug 5 2003, 12:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fina @ Aug 5 2003, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> **Edit : Your Descent icon rocks, btw. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Gracias <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I keep it around more for sentimental value and stuff than because I was actually good at Descent at the time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone should record winning stats by week.
Week 1 - A = # - M = # Week 2 - A = # - M = #
Do that and see how it levels out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=23462' target='_blank'>Necro bumpage</a>
Psychostats seems to be the best statistic generator at the moment. You could install psychostats and run it manually to generate the statistics when the server is emty, or you can copy the logs to a seperate PC and run psychostats on them from there.
This is about the most useful statistic psychostats generates: <a href='http://www.clanhk.org/nsstats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.clanhk.org/nsstats/maps.php</a>
I've played on a number of different servers, so far I think I have played around 60 games out of all that maybe 5 marine wins... onos + redemption= instant win for aliens... the second the aliens get that kind of setup going there is almost no chance for victory... they just charge (break somethings kill some people) and warp out heal and come back before we have recovered... on top of that the seige turrets are hella weak... they are slow to fire and don't do overly large amount of damage... On hera the marines out number the aliens 6 to 9, they took hera entrence holo room, 2 of our hives... and then suddenly around 4 of the aliens got the res to get onos (we had only 1 res node at this point as aliens vs as i recall 8) and they charged in seized a hive some guys joined and we began attacking the other hive (we had 2 res nodes at this point as aliens vs as i recall 7) the marines worked as a team... they traveled in packs of 4 dressed in all heavy with hmgs, but they simply would get owned by the onos... some sensory chambers would hide them, when marines come near devore 2, gorge 2, and no more marines... after around maybe 5 mins of fighting we had 3 hives 4 res nodes, around 6 onos and total of 9 aliens, vs 3 res nodes, what appeared to be full tech marines, a total of 10 marines, and they were very heavily fortified... it took some time to take down the holo room, but we did it and seized entrance nearly 10 secs after... we built around there base and slowly moved in (they placed all there stuff on the pad with the res node and a tonne of turrets around it so we couldn't get near them... but then someone found an error in the map... if u go to the glass windows in the halls leading into there spawn through which u can see there re node (as fade not sure if it works as any one else), use your acid rockets they go through the glass and his them on the other side and they can't hit u through it (remember to get as close as u can to the glass)...
so as u can clearly see despite whatever the marines can get they still get owned by a group of onos...
just thought i'd update on the last couple of days on our server (roob's ns1.muppetking.com 27015)
i've included eaglec's figures from his post a while back to see how things have changed with time ;-)
marines/aliens Overall 34/100 - now 41/159 Mineshaft 7/8 - now 7/14 Eclipse 5/13 - now 5/18 Veil 2/8 - now 3/15 Caged 3/9 - now 3/16 Nothing 5/8 - now 5/15 Lost 3/13 - now 3/20 Hera 3/10 - now 4/16 Origin 5/8 - now 6/11 Tanith 1/14 - now 2/21 Bast 0/8 - now 3/12
frankly it looks like marines are getting hurt. Admittedly i havent played the last couple of nights to help save humanity ;-)
We are running a beta server on ns1.muppetking.com 27017 which was full on the first night but people seem to have lost interest. The stats there are overall 3/5
And out of interest over 8 days or so worth where i kept the logs handy for the OLD NS 1.04 server the stats were:
66/211
i.e. so far I would say that the overall the balance between the 2 versions is pretty similar 24% marine wins in ns1.04 and 21% in ns2
ok ok ok small sample size ok ok ok ;-) i know.... but it'll get bigger
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->marines/aliens Overall 34/100 - now 41/159 Mineshaft 7/8 - now 7/14 Eclipse 5/13 - now 5/18 Veil 2/8 - now 3/15 Caged 3/9 - now 3/16 Nothing 5/8 - now 5/15 Lost 3/13 - now 3/20 Hera 3/10 - now 4/16 Origin 5/8 - now 6/11 Tanith 1/14 - now 2/21 Bast 0/8 - now 3/12 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHAHA Wow!, marines are gettting owned all over.. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
I thought it would start going the other way, but it looks like it is just getting worse. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
<li>Firstly, the importance of hives versus nodes has really changed a lot. Hives don't seem to be quite as wonderful to gain or as deadly to lose.
<li>Secondly, I have hardly EVER seen the marine team use sensor sweep, let alone build extra observatories. I think once using sensor sweep begins to become in vogue, we'll see a lot more effective marine work on the offensive side. I've managed to take our some Marine fortifications by patient application of cloaking and turret-shadow.
<li>Also, it's a map thing. Players are still learning all of the nooks and crannies for skulks to hide in, which means the players on the marine team are temporarily at a disadvantage against ambushes until the maps become better known. This is compounded by cloaking/lack of sensors.
<li>The alien teams are (surprisingly quickly) getting over their 1.04 habits in regards to gorges and resource nodes. I see lots of nodes going up real fast on the Kharaa side. This further inflates the current game win ratios for the alien side.
</ul> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Terr hit it on the head.
Once both teams learn the map layouts and correct usage of the rooms therein, the teams will become more balanced. In a new map, it is easier to find an ambush spot as an alien than it is to anticipate an ambush spot as a marine.
New maps are tough on commanders too. They don't know the hive locations, they don't know where to secure, and they don't know the layout.
Both teams have gone through massive changes. It's been easier for the aliens to adapt to the new strategies than it has been for the marines.
In the two games I saw clear marine victories, the first thing our commander dropped when advancing was a sensor sweep and a following obs. When we moved as a group, he layed down sensor sweeps for us. It just worked.
**Edit : Your Descent icon rocks, btw.
But its almost always when the marines have a bad comm. The aliens have been winning more, but the ammount of new player in NS rushing the marine door is stagering. Ive especially seen some bad comms. When i comm, marines usually win 70/30. And im really not that good. Im pretty average, i just dont make stupid mistakes. And yeah ive seen alot of bad comms using old strats like 2 hive lock down. Just getting the res in those hives and letting aliens expand all over the place. You lose very quickly this way in my experience. Youve gotta keep those whacky aliens under 3 rt's if you want to stand a chance.
this game has only been out for 5 days.. new comers to natural selection are still learning.. so you guys shoulden't really expect damn good comms ..
cya in the <i>battle field</i> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here... let me tally it up from the numbers here.
168 Kharaa wins
56 Marine wins
Marines: 25%
Kharaa: 75%
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a>
shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens)
258 Kharaa wins
80 Marine wins
Marines: 24%
Kharaa: 76%
[edit, I realized that Minstel's count and mine might overlap so I had to take out his count sadly]
Week 1 - A = # - M = #
Week 2 - A = # - M = #
Do that and see how it levels out.
I think this sort of rapid expansion is key to marine victories.
Also I think rambos are far more detrimental to marine sides due to the res for kill situation. Since res kills aren't shared, it means a single alien can build up a decent amount of res before going gorge, and therefore build a whole outpost as opposed to just a res tower and a hive. This avoids the whole loss of res for changing back and forth between skulk/gorge
Week 1 - A = # - M = #
Week 2 - A = # - M = #
Do that and see how it levels out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Will do.
I personally have a 32% marine win ratio so far. (50 games)
but you see from the stats its probably the most balanced map for the current state of play. Tanith and Bast on the other hand area marine disaster area.
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a>
shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
looks like your marines have sussed viel but are still struggling with mineshaft - perhaps we can arrange a student exchange <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
My server has been full pretty much roudn the clock apart from last night when i needed to do maintenace so i thought id update my server stats.
And as <a href='http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php' target='_blank'>http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/stats/maps.php</a>
shows ALIENS ARE WINNING far MORE games than Marines with <b>124 wins v 30</b>. Which is roughly on avergae <b>413%</b> more wins.
Now ofcourse this is not pure proof for it only coutns the games played on ym server and does include all the early games where it was clear that marines were not using new tactics and so had no hope to win aagisnt aliens really (although same thing could be said to aliens) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
looks like your marines have sussed viel but are still struggling with mineshaft - perhaps we can arrange a student exchange <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hehe na the marines have only won once on veil when im playing on kharaa
Tanith 3 marines and 19 aliens. eclipse 11 marines 21 aliens. caged 14 marines 15 aliens. Lost 6 marines 18 aliens. Bast 2 marines 20 aliens.
Hera 6 marines 19 aliens. Origin 6 marines 8 aliens. Mineshaft 2 marines 12 aliens. Nothing 7 marines 10 aliens. veil 9 marines 13 aliens. Kills were pretty random as marines led half of the maps (in 1.04 they led all the maps in kills).
IF there was this much difference I would have to suggest some inequity in map balance. Some maps are almost even while some are very onesided. I'll take Hera as an example, its a map we all know with a few slight changes. 2 ways out of base until cargo is open or they have jp's for the one vent. So early game sens ambushes are very prevalent even just plain old ambushes in the dark hallway leading to vent are often successful, much to the point that almost noone goes that way anymore unless it is very early on. I always hide a sens in that hallway with an o tower or 2 and that o tower is there almost all game and I get maybe 4 or 5 kills. So basically you put all your forces on hera side and marines are boxed in coupled with a gorge rush to holo and aliens tend to own the entire map very quickly. Not to mention the landing pad res node almost has to be electrified becaue it is so far away and skulks can easily get in and chomp it down.
as you can see all the new maps are fairly close except mineshaft.
2.0 commanding takes some getting used to.
Without a really good commander the team falls apart. Commanding without a microphone really isn't an option. :-D (I've seen WAY too many commanders that never talk)
I Chop this up to the fact that being a Kharaa is alot easier now then it use to be and being a marine has become alot hard for people becasue no one is use to working as a team yet!
Give it time and you will see the commander will get better, the players will be smarter.
But I still think it will never be 60%/40% for Marines
-Danish Monkey
Also marines have great advantage on new maps, winning almost every game there on our server.
(Games have usually 14-16 people involved).
It really depends on team cooperation, it's not so hard to convince marines they should work together, after couple of initial games we seen no marine rambo at all, everyone went to WP, sticked together within hist squad and waited there for further orders.
So far I've seen 16 marine wins to 56 alien. Marine wins tend to be when the aliens don't all mass gorge at the start (IE alien stupdity) more than anything special on the marine team. That's how I won as comm, I punished the aliens for hive whoring rather than res whoring <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gracias <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I keep it around more for sentimental value and stuff than because I was actually good at Descent at the time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone should record winning stats by week.
Week 1 - A = # - M = #
Week 2 - A = # - M = #
Do that and see how it levels out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=23462' target='_blank'>Necro bumpage</a>
Ex. *Map name* (Games played) *Marine wins* - *Alien wins*
I started a server and was just wondering if i could see how everything plays out over the next few weeks.
-Danish Monkey
You could install psychostats and run it manually to generate the statistics when the server is emty, or you can copy the logs to a seperate PC and run psychostats on them from there.
Marines:
Total Kills: 14439
Total Wins: 60
Aliens:
Total Kills: 16574
Total Wins: 159
the second the aliens get that kind of setup going there is almost no chance for victory... they just charge (break somethings kill some people) and warp out heal and come back before we have recovered... on top of that the seige turrets are hella weak... they are slow to fire and don't do overly large amount of damage...
On hera the marines out number the aliens 6 to 9, they took hera entrence holo room, 2 of our hives... and then suddenly around 4 of the aliens got the res to get onos (we had only 1 res node at this point as aliens vs as i recall 8) and they charged in seized a hive some guys joined and we began attacking the other hive (we had 2 res nodes at this point as aliens vs as i recall 7) the marines worked as a team... they traveled in packs of 4 dressed in all heavy with hmgs, but they simply would get owned by the onos... some sensory chambers would hide them, when marines come near devore 2, gorge 2, and no more marines... after around maybe 5 mins of fighting we had 3 hives 4 res nodes, around 6 onos and total of 9 aliens, vs 3 res nodes, what appeared to be full tech marines, a total of 10 marines, and they were very heavily fortified... it took some time to take down the holo room, but we did it and seized entrance nearly 10 secs after... we built around there base and slowly moved in (they placed all there stuff on the pad with the res node and a tonne of turrets around it so we couldn't get near them... but then someone found an error in the map... if u go to the glass windows in the halls leading into there spawn through which u can see there re node (as fade not sure if it works as any one else), use your acid rockets they go through the glass and his them on the other side and they can't hit u through it (remember to get as close as u can to the glass)...
so as u can clearly see despite whatever the marines can get they still get owned by a group of onos...
i've included eaglec's figures from his post a while back to see how things have changed with time ;-)
marines/aliens
Overall 34/100 - now 41/159
Mineshaft 7/8 - now 7/14
Eclipse 5/13 - now 5/18
Veil 2/8 - now 3/15
Caged 3/9 - now 3/16
Nothing 5/8 - now 5/15
Lost 3/13 - now 3/20
Hera 3/10 - now 4/16
Origin 5/8 - now 6/11
Tanith 1/14 - now 2/21
Bast 0/8 - now 3/12
frankly it looks like marines are getting hurt. Admittedly i havent played the last couple of nights to help save humanity ;-)
We are running a beta server on ns1.muppetking.com 27017 which was full on the first night but people seem to have lost interest. The stats there are overall 3/5
And out of interest over 8 days or so worth where i kept the logs handy for the OLD NS 1.04 server the stats were:
66/211
i.e. so far I would say that the overall the balance between the 2 versions is pretty similar 24% marine wins in ns1.04 and 21% in ns2
ok ok ok small sample size ok ok ok ;-) i know.... but it'll get bigger
Overall 34/100 - now 41/159
Mineshaft 7/8 - now 7/14
Eclipse 5/13 - now 5/18
Veil 2/8 - now 3/15
Caged 3/9 - now 3/16
Nothing 5/8 - now 5/15
Lost 3/13 - now 3/20
Hera 3/10 - now 4/16
Origin 5/8 - now 6/11
Tanith 1/14 - now 2/21
Bast 0/8 - now 3/12
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHAHA Wow!, marines are gettting owned all over.. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
I thought it would start going the other way, but it looks like it is just getting worse. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Danish Monkey