Slightly Confused
Animosity
Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11768Members
Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11768Members
<div class="IPBDescription">serious point here</div> i read a lot of posts, and i dont often reply. but one thing ive started to notice is quite a trend of "i wish marines would stop whining" or "i wish aliens would stop whining". If you look through the forums you'll see this happens to quite a large extent.
So , does this mean that people think of themselves AS aliens or AS marines ?? surely if one says "i wish you marines would stop whining" on the forums, they class themselves as an alien ?
Having said that, have those individuals not stopped and thought "why am i blaming the opposite team for complaining about something that i always use" , surely if they always use it it must be for a reason, subconscious or not. I think that maybe deep down those people think that aliens are currently better than marines.
This i think is one of the main reasons that dev's dont really listen to the general boards very much. Sure theres a general opinion, and they'll look into it. but the voice of one whinging isnt listened to. For instance, this 2.01a patch was released due to aliens winning 90%+ of matches. Its just something to test. But, this is starting to show that people who say "you marines whine too much" dont have as much experience in fair play as the dev's may want for playtesting. To test a game, you have to play both sides equally and regularly, surely the best way to do that would be in matches as you have to play both sides on each map.
On that point some people may say "oh, clan play is just about finding the best tactic and abusing it to hell" , but from at least my point of view, a game with multiple viable tactics is a lot more fun. In 1.04 is was just jp hmg, aliens always got dc's and it was the same thing over and over. Admittedly sometimes there was a relocate to hive option but that was rare. Anyway back to what i was saying. currently with this new patch i feel that there is now an option for all chambers for aliens first hive. with the reduced health carapace is pretty handy again, but with the increased speed celerity and silence are great. also holding key points with cloaking is very useful.
Also, those that say "well on this public i played on marines won all the time" . This just does my head in, on publics its rare to have fair teams, one team may be stuck with new players whilst the other team has a few decent players, it makes a huge difference in the outcome. I think if myself and a few friends joined one of your publics the outcome may vary, but who knows.
With this in mind, i just really wanted to point out that those who play both sides regularly and fairly will agree that the current changes happening are generally for the good. Yes some of them may be reversed, skulks may be a little too weak now (imo) and i think the electrify costs are good because its now reasonable to electrify res points, 30 was way too much.
Anyway, its something to think about.
So , does this mean that people think of themselves AS aliens or AS marines ?? surely if one says "i wish you marines would stop whining" on the forums, they class themselves as an alien ?
Having said that, have those individuals not stopped and thought "why am i blaming the opposite team for complaining about something that i always use" , surely if they always use it it must be for a reason, subconscious or not. I think that maybe deep down those people think that aliens are currently better than marines.
This i think is one of the main reasons that dev's dont really listen to the general boards very much. Sure theres a general opinion, and they'll look into it. but the voice of one whinging isnt listened to. For instance, this 2.01a patch was released due to aliens winning 90%+ of matches. Its just something to test. But, this is starting to show that people who say "you marines whine too much" dont have as much experience in fair play as the dev's may want for playtesting. To test a game, you have to play both sides equally and regularly, surely the best way to do that would be in matches as you have to play both sides on each map.
On that point some people may say "oh, clan play is just about finding the best tactic and abusing it to hell" , but from at least my point of view, a game with multiple viable tactics is a lot more fun. In 1.04 is was just jp hmg, aliens always got dc's and it was the same thing over and over. Admittedly sometimes there was a relocate to hive option but that was rare. Anyway back to what i was saying. currently with this new patch i feel that there is now an option for all chambers for aliens first hive. with the reduced health carapace is pretty handy again, but with the increased speed celerity and silence are great. also holding key points with cloaking is very useful.
Also, those that say "well on this public i played on marines won all the time" . This just does my head in, on publics its rare to have fair teams, one team may be stuck with new players whilst the other team has a few decent players, it makes a huge difference in the outcome. I think if myself and a few friends joined one of your publics the outcome may vary, but who knows.
With this in mind, i just really wanted to point out that those who play both sides regularly and fairly will agree that the current changes happening are generally for the good. Yes some of them may be reversed, skulks may be a little too weak now (imo) and i think the electrify costs are good because its now reasonable to electrify res points, 30 was way too much.
Anyway, its something to think about.
Comments
Tis a big problem with NS, in 1.04 Marines simply couldnt win without being 'lame', if they JP rushed = lame, used HA = lame, sieged = lame. Marines practically had to kill the hive in LA/LMGs without spawn camping in order to not be considered lame.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With this in mind, i just really wanted to point out that those who play both sides regularly and fairly will agree that the current changes happening are generally for the good. Yes some of them may be reversed, skulks may be a little too weak now (imo) and i think the electrify costs are good because its now reasonable to electrify res points, 30 was way too much. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree whole heartedly, i felt they were balanced and a Marine team who played as a Marine team should will win the game. The first game i commed in 2.0 we nearly won even though i didnt really know what i was doing just because i got people organised. Anyone who tells me that Aliens are overpowered gets a slap now <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Same goes to you guys who couldn't quite udnerstand how within 4 days we could say its unbalanced. It's possible, what it takes to realise on public servers in 4days came almost straight away to us guys that have to look at clan play and every tactical option. Hence why, when I voiced my opinion I'd played countless scrims versus US clans and European, in no way was I just being awkward or different. I also had a guy saying I was trying to destroy NS... I was trying to do much the opposite: this is the first HL mod in ages that I've honestly enjoyed, I don't want this to die.
To help us on the forums, please please could more PTs and Vets speak up, since there people may listen to what you're saying.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe people have such a huge issue with marines winning rounds due to various sci-fi alien movies. In those movies the aliens are only ever defeated by a nuke or some other large explosion, and the thought of marines simply strolling into the middle of the alien base and destroying it seems wrong.
i agree totlly..
Same goes to you guys who couldn't quite udnerstand how within 4 days we could say its unbalanced. It's possible, what it takes to realise on public servers in 4days came almost straight away to us guys that have to look at clan play and every tactical option. Hence why, when I voiced my opinion I'd played countless scrims versus US clans and European, in no way was I just being awkward or different. I also had a guy saying I was trying to destroy NS... I was trying to do much the opposite: this is the first HL mod in ages that I've honestly enjoyed, I don't want this to die.
To help us on the forums, please please could more PTs and Vets speak up, since there people may listen to what you're saying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is related to a MYTHR!YL(sp?) thread...
Personally I still think 4 days is too short. OK, there may be a imbalance but with ~10 maps (I believe they had 20 scrims) thats still only two games on each map. Perhaps maps will need different tactics? Everyone knows they have different biases. Also just posting 'NS2.0 is imbalanced' is no help, to anyone.
You have to post WHY and WHAT you tried... All I read was aliens get chambers + res too quickly, overpowered at start. Well what did you try to overcome that?
And just because I'm not in an NS clan doesn't mean I can't appreciate tactical nuances.
This is a bit off topic, so feel free to PM to explain your position.
So , does this mean that people think of themselves AS aliens or AS marines ?? surely if one says "i wish you marines would stop whining" on the forums, they class themselves as an alien ?
Having said that, have those individuals not stopped and thought "why am i blaming the opposite team for complaining about something that i always use" , surely if they always use it it must be for a reason, subconscious or not. I think that maybe deep down those people think that aliens are currently better than marines.
This i think is one of the main reasons that dev's dont really listen to the general boards very much. Sure theres a general opinion, and they'll look into it. but the voice of one whinging isnt listened to. For instance, this 2.01a patch was released due to aliens winning 90%+ of matches. Its just something to test. But, this is starting to show that people who say "you marines whine too much" dont have as much experience in fair play as the dev's may want for playtesting. To test a game, you have to play both sides equally and regularly, surely the best way to do that would be in matches as you have to play both sides on each map.
On that point some people may say "oh, clan play is just about finding the best tactic and abusing it to hell" , but from at least my point of view, a game with multiple viable tactics is a lot more fun. In 1.04 is was just jp hmg, aliens always got dc's and it was the same thing over and over. Admittedly sometimes there was a relocate to hive option but that was rare. Anyway back to what i was saying. currently with this new patch i feel that there is now an option for all chambers for aliens first hive. with the reduced health carapace is pretty handy again, but with the increased speed celerity and silence are great. also holding key points with cloaking is very useful.
Also, those that say "well on this public i played on marines won all the time" . This just does my head in, on publics its rare to have fair teams, one team may be stuck with new players whilst the other team has a few decent players, it makes a huge difference in the outcome. I think if myself and a few friends joined one of your publics the outcome may vary, but who knows.
With this in mind, i just really wanted to point out that those who play both sides regularly and fairly will agree that the current changes happening are generally for the good. Yes some of them may be reversed, skulks may be a little too weak now (imo) and i think the electrify costs are good because its now reasonable to electrify res points, 30 was way too much.
Anyway, its something to think about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play as both, but consider myself an Alien. Why? It's more fun to bite peoples faces' off.
And uh, marines stop whining about the Onos. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well thought out.
I think the overriding message for everyone is they need to play both sides and reserve your judgement on balance for a few months time.
The biggest problem with pubs is that you almost always get one side significantly better than the other.
Just wait... be patient... keep discussing those different strategies, and be so thankful that we can now actually discuss some because it has the depth to support it.
Things will balance out, and if they don't straight away please please please understand NS is taking leaps and strides towards a goal of balance, all the while having to overcome it's own awesome complexity.
After a while you just filter out all the sceptics or laugh them off. I'm sure the devs too, but it must also be frustrating to feel so much negativity towards their creation, all the while crossing their fingers that people will just keep at it and discover the gameplay they are endevouring to create.
Otherwise, go play CS or something. I'd fall asleep doing it, but maybe it's balance will be a bit more to your liking. Not that it was exactly a feat balancing it in the first place <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally i use the terms "Alien players" and "Marine players" i dont see the point in only playing on one team, there are many people like me with out a bias opinion of either side, thats why we could (after a day even) say there was something up balance wise.
In one day i had worked out things that people who have played since release still havent guessed. In that same day i found out that a single marine right at the begining of the game can kill every single skulk delaying the aliens a minute or so, and the aliens will still win.
In that day, i saw how pointless a redeeming onos realy is to the alien team when the whole team assaulted, gorges healing onos infront skulks flanking and the onos redeemed and left the team for dead.
In that day I learned that if the alien teamwork is < = or > than the marine teamwork, the marine team can only delay the aliens into a stalemate game for hours, marines can win, but it takes really really bad or unlucky alien team. In that day i found out MC>DC>SC for uprgades and DC=SC>MC for global effects.
I found that I could get stuck very easily as skulk and fade, I found metabolise extrememly helpfull, I found skulks extremely easy to kill, with fades only slightly harder.
I found out how to avoid devour, I found out how to kill redemption onos'.
I even found out that it takes roughly 74 unupgraded LMG bullets to kill an uncarapaced onos, where it takes about 100 to kill a carapaced one, Shotgun will kill onos in 3-4 shots, HMGs are primary target for the aliens still, JP + shotgun rushes work (very slow to tech tho) JP+shotgun counters onos, fade and skulk, lerk counters JP, gorge is slighly overpowered.
I found leap to still be 2nd best offensive ability the aliens have, BUT most importantly I found i could have a second hive building withing a minute of game start.
I cant see how the 2.01a changes are going to change this.
Personally I still think 4 days is too short. OK, there may be a imbalance but with ~10 maps (I believe they had 20 scrims) thats still only two games on each map. Perhaps maps will need different tactics? Everyone knows they have different biases. Also just posting 'NS2.0 is imbalanced' is no help, to anyone.
You have to post WHY and WHAT you tried... All I read was aliens get chambers + res too quickly, overpowered at start. Well what did you try to overcome that?
And just because I'm not in an NS clan doesn't mean I can't appreciate tactical nuances.
This is a bit off topic, so feel free to PM to explain your position.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First thing is, we didn't just say its not balanced, we said WHY it is, if you care to read again.
Also, playing more scrims on every map wont make a difference, no mod should ever be map dependant to be fair.. you need the team's balanced, which they werent, maps have a completely different type of blancing. Ask a mapper like ::esuna:: if you would like somethign explained, I know he's putting a lot of work into his.
I don't want people to think we're know it alls, because we're not, just listen to what we say without prejudice... it's very often valid and true information/opinions
i dont do tactics, i just make things die..
81.105.12.158:27005 ping that shiz, check out the name...
however i dont feel that 2.01 is still gonna address the problems, maybe the skulk was a bit too overpowered, i personally thought it was fine as it is, but goin back to the 104 skulk is not the way to go imo. Now it again is gonna be more prefferable to go for DC's again and carapace etc. So i dont think that 3 chambers are a valid choice. Well in clan or arranged games at least anyway, sens is used a lot on pubs, nobody uses it in clan games, its just too easy to get by.
The majority of these changes we're made because of the us clan ham, they have a lot of say in what goes for some reason, even if they are disagreements. Personally i think it was fine as it was, just maybe moving umbra to hive 3, upping the price of a 2nd hive, and the build time. The main problem is that 2 hive aliens is just too strong, and its soo easy to get. I still feel that in most clan games now if mariens dont end it in the early game, as soon as aliens get a 2nd hive its gonna be another alien win. Be interestign to see at least anyway.
ridley.