The New *official* Maps
Simple_Compound
Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16180Members
Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16180Members
<div class="IPBDescription">when good things go wrong</div> is it just me or does anyone else think the original maps were much much better? actually some of these maps i cant even bare playing as it annoys me so much. please tell me im not alone. dont hurt me <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
otherwise i like all the other maps hell of a lot better...
i specialy like the atmosphere at ns_eclipse ... kinda crepy map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (for marine)
If you're going to criticise maps, at least have the decency to offer constructive criticism. And as to my opinion, i think the standard of mapping is excellent in 2.0, i wouldn't say better than the old 1.04 maps, but i wouldn't say worse. I <b>prefer</b> the 1.04 maps still, but that's because i'm used to them more.
the new maps all look better then the old ones.
old maps that have been redone look great.
gameplay is great.
accept change.
If you're going to criticise maps, at least have the decency to offer constructive criticism. And as to my opinion, i think the standard of mapping is excellent in 2.0, i wouldn't say better than the old 1.04 maps, but i wouldn't say worse. I <b>prefer</b> the 1.04 maps still, but that's because i'm used to them more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is no point in constructive criticisim. the maps arent going to be changed anyhow nor are the mappers going to listen to my oppinion. i simply stated my oppinion and asked if anyone agreed. so far no one does. thats the end of it.
the new maps all look better then the old ones.
old maps that have been redone look great.
gameplay is great.
accept change. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
[yawn] and try accepting criticism. they do have a good point though compound try to explain why you don't like the new levels. (the gameplay? or the style? atmosphere? what? are the levels buggy?). I've already expressed my feelings about veil and the changes to tanith on the general board in a constructive manner (i think <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> ). Try it.
Veil has some annoying stairs when onos, you hit the ceiling and you have to duck just a bit, its bit annoying when you are chasing some marines <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Great map though and plays well but the hives just look bit empty, there is no really heavy infestation on the floor...
Hera is still awesome and new cool outside area is even cooler. The new vent hive is pretty good but I liked the old one too. Now you can?t double siege it right? Marine start is easier to defend now its great.
Caged has really changed a lot... I really liked the old one, now its bit odd near the double res and there is so many hallways much smaller and maybe too skulk friendly. Ventilation hive was really good and now its bit flat but maybe it plays better without the stairs and it?s still nice hive. The new vent lightning is too bright for me and it looks odd.
Eclipse is now much better and I really like it now and the new maintenance is great expect the long hallways leading to it.
Lost is really good map, wierd design and it plays well <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Texturing is bit flat in some hallways but its ok.
Lightning is cool and the small outside area gives nice feeling that you are floating in the empty...space..lost.
Mineshaft yeahs! Really cool lightning and nice detailing. Very good but it feels like bit skulk friendly with all the narrow hallways and small rooms. Yes there are big rooms too and they are great. Nicely balanced I think.
Nothing and bast are great too and they have not changed much and they play good.
Origin is nice map too and has some neat ideas and stuff. The lightning is not soo good and bit flat in some areas. Very playable map.
Can?t think anything else, need to go to sleep now.... 2.0 maps are great and the old maps are great. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
The new maps look awesome.
BUT...
They are friggin MAZES.
The 1.04 maps were very easy to learn layout wise.
But the new ones are just confusing.
The hallways are short and lead into areas that interconnects half a dozen other hallways!
That is no good imho. NS isn't HL Deathmatch where flow is everything!
Just looking at ns_mineshaft and ns_veil when bringing up the minimap give me a headache!
IMO, the best map layout wise is ns_hera.
It's simple, yet has enough connectivity to reach every area fast. Hallways are long enough to break up the "maze" feeling.
yes i know... long hallways are not very good for NS... but very short hallways do even more damage. Feels like you have to turn all the time.
Now, every corner, it's like you have to stop and see before something is on the other side.
That makes for slower movement.
NS_veil, i could easily chop off about 25% of the map into longer (NOT necessarily STRAIGHT) hallways and it would flow better.
I don't really dislike any of the changes to maps. They seem to have worked with the code developers to address certian balance issues, while reducing r_speeds in certian areas and adding detail where they can afford it.
Viaduct and Sat Com are now relatively defensible as aliens, but it wasn't mapping changes that caused it. It was changes to the way OCs and jetpacks work, the new role of sensories in the game, and the fact that one gorge no longer has the res to build 3 defs and 6 OCs when there are other things he could be building.
For me, as a wannabe mapper, this is amazing. Before, I was thinking to myself, "Make it easy for skulks to climb the walls near the hives and make it more difficult near the marine start. Don't build vents directly to hives, as JPs will abuse them. Put a smooth, climbable overhang leading up to the hive so aliens can climb the walls to stop the guy standing on top of it. And whatever you do, don't make a hive like Viaduct or Sat Com."
Now, the rules have changed, marines would rather take a resource node than a hive, and so it's more feisible for me as a mapper to just make whatever kind of cool-looking hive rooms I want to, and just see what happens.
(Now we just need to wait for the new desperate tactics of cheapness to emerge, for the new overkill seige locations or ideal relocation spots to pop up, and for new rules of mapping to emerge.)
If you're going to criticise maps, at least have the decency to offer constructive criticism. And as to my opinion, i think the standard of mapping is excellent in 2.0, i wouldn't say better than the old 1.04 maps, but i wouldn't say worse. I <b>prefer</b> the 1.04 maps still, but that's because i'm used to them more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is no point in constructive criticisim. the maps arent going to be changed anyhow nor are the mappers going to listen to my oppinion. i simply stated my oppinion and asked if anyone agreed. so far no one does. thats the end of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mappers want their maps to be good. If you have good ideas that you can express clearly and specific complaints, then the mappers will probably consider what you suggest for the next version. Just stating that you don't like the maps is either going to insult the mapper or be ignored, neither of which does anyone any good. From what I've heard the maker of Bast left the community because so many people bitched about it. We don't want that to happen again.
True... veil is bit maze for start but I learned it after few games.
-GF
It <b>is</b>. I resurrected it there because people seemed sad to see it go from Eclipse. The double node in Veil is also a modified version of the marine spawn from a very old version of Eclipse, pre-1.0 but late enough to have a screenshot in the installer. I did this because I intended to create more of a connection between the two maps (as they're set in the same facility), but it seems this idea unfortunately backfired.
but it would still be cool <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The changes, if any, to bast are for the better and it is still a truly kick **** map.
The changes to caged are good, but I feel overall the map now lacks on ambience and feels very inanimate.
The changes to eclipse are good brushwork and layout wise, but I think the lighting in eclipse now like like a disco. There are intense reds, oranges whites and that bluey green of the keyhole all in one and it is a mish mash that doesn't work.
The changes to hera are really cool, excusing the area around the marine spawn - leaving it to vent or entrance & reception. Those areas could have stayed the same (excusing the white fan thresholds and the ends of maintenance corridor, those are really nice).
Lost is a great looking and playable map, my only vice with it is that you feel like you've walked into a different building sometimes. The corridors around external outlook are totally different from the corridors around... Equilibrium Reg. hive, and this continues throughout. I think the best areas therefore are the consistant ones like the marine spawn and the Eternal Requiem res node (side note - nice sounding names, but really tough to grapple when playing a fast paced game of NS).
Mineshaft, mineshaft, mineshaft. I love this map. Love it to bits. The theme is so strong and evident throughout and the use of textures and eye candy is excellent. Lighting - couldn't ask for more. This is a really brill map and I wouldn't change a thing (okay, I lied, it could do with more env_sound's and so forth, but hey, which maps couldn't tbh).
Origin to me, could have better texturing, layout and lighting all around. It seems far too vent friendly and an onos has a real trek around the place to get anywhere.
It, to me, doesn't seem to be of the same calibre of the other official maps.
Nothing - similar to bast (my comments). Great map, all changes for the better.
Tanith - Nothing bad here, still a great map, and although there's a funny texture on some of the walls now - it's nice to have a change and it's not that bad of one either.
Veil is a pretty cool map too although just like quazilin said - onos get stuck going up steps and thats a real pain. The map as a whole seems pretty inanimate just like I said about caged. More moving parts, more ambient sounds etc etc.
Overall I think we owe a big thank you to all contributing mappers. They put in a <b>lot</b> of time to do their maps - and they are all voluntary. Only merkeba and relic (hera and bast) are past of the NS team, and thats a high percentage of voluntary mappers.
The only thing that definately needs to change though is the lighting in Eclipse, Futuristic installations & rainbow colours don't mix.
Btw,I still like the old eclipse better... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> *sniff* Ah well, most people seem to like the changes, whatever <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It <b>is</b>. I resurrected it there because people seemed sad to see it go from Eclipse. The double node in Veil is also a modified version of the marine spawn from a very old version of Eclipse, pre-1.0 but late enough to have a screenshot in the installer. I did this because I intended to create more of a connection between the two maps (as they're set in the same facility), but it seems this idea unfortunately backfired. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
veil is great guys, as are the rest of the maps. lost and mineshaft are confusing, but after a while you will all learn and love them, Greedo and Ekaj put some love into them and they are very nice maps. Origin is just a new Nancy, great hives (imo some of the best hive rooms), a nice vent structure (lovely) and its very easily maneuvered. New Nothing (better gameplay), "new" bast (differed vents), new Caged (my fav all time map just got better <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) , tho i do not like the vents texturing (should've seen an earlier one with the vent from shipping and aux gen combined it was AWESOME, and Gorge friendly)
after a while yo will look back and say I love thse maps how did i ever say they were bad <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just to give an example, messhall in Nancy had so many great fights probably because of the door. You didn't know what to expect when you opened it but you could allmost allways count on it to be bad <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Doors break up the flow of the game and that is a good thing. It gives you time to stress down and collect the squad/pack before rushing what ever is on the other side.
I know I prefere the larger battles but they are less likley to happen when there is fewer places to huddle together.
Alltitude has more or less the same effect. Standing on the small lift in caged (cargo/via/silo) together with your squad of marines not knowing what to expect when you get down is great. Thats why I got a bit sad when I saw how flat nothing (gen/vent/sewer) had become. At least the area around generator hive.
I guess these changes has been made to make the maps kinder to servers and fairness in scrims but I feel that it removes mood from the maps. I play mostly for the excitment of the game and not for the thrill of victory so this is sadly a change for the worse for me.
But the maps to NS is still among the best I have seen in a mod. Only the Specialist have maps that are in the same class. So thanks for the fish and please keep the good work coming <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lost is actually very hard to navigate due to having far too complex corridors, very strange and hard to remember names of locations, and bland texturing the whole level over. The author of that map has innapropriately used hazard markings all over the place. I mean, why are they all up on the walls everywhere? They aren't hazards.
To improve this level, I suggest renaming many of the locations, and simplifying the routes, or just make different parts of the level look different to others. I remember when NS first came out, and I quickly learned my way around Bast because of it's diverse lighting schemes and contrast in design.
As for Veil, well, it just looks too much like Eclipse. I not to keen on the parts of the architecture and design from Eclipse that have been recycled and put in Veil. The windy corridors also don't help with navigating and learning the level (I think someone has said this already). Perhaps it's still early days though, perhaps I'll adapt <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Mineshaft is superb, I love that level, it's probably my favourite, and I haven't actually played Origin yet, I always seem to miss it.
I also think that all the reworked original levels are a great improvement, particularly Eclipse.
What? You propose I make a sequel/follow-up set in the <i>same station</i> styled like Nothing? or Tanith? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: I can't spell ! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 very good maps though, you 100% know that you get the feeling your in the same planet / area / base, i found it quite creepy to see a modification to the old marine spawn in veil <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> i liked that alot, oh and a uninfested hive for the ready room, really gives that nice sense of what it might of looked like before the aliens took those sectors over
Don't edit my posts Comprox darnit!!
I for my part dont think so. If you compare the gameplay of the new and the 1.0 maps you will see, that the "old" maps have some trouble to fit the new natural selection version. Example eclipse:
it seem to me that the new eclipse is too small, you reach every point in the map in about 1 minute.
Or am I the only one? Plz dont hurt me XD
What is REALLY annoying:
There are some parts in the maps that oviously hadn been playtested. For example ns_veil: are the onos supposed to crouch at each stairway that leads through a doorway??? I cant imagine... one point that lames the gameplay. Ns_mineshaft: good looking. Ehm, have the alien a chance to win the match if marines occupy the double res? Ns_lost: relocate behind a closed weldable door. This makes the map non-playable for any kind of match I think.
What I like on the new maps is their size: big, bigger, HUUUUUUUGE! The bigger a map is the more fun I have exploring all the cool locations, check for some tactical positions ...
But I cant believe that ns_tanith is in the 2.0. The only feature of the map (besides no more entities than neccessary, missing doors where some would be fine, marines hardly win when teams are equal) are the worse textures. I dont think this map fits ns 2.0 any more since all the other maps are at least good looking and very detailed.
Ehm... anybody knows why they removed nearly all doors in 2.0? Maybe Flayra thought it would lame the gameplay... dunno...
The changes, if any, to bast are for the better and it is still a truly kick **** map.
The changes to caged are good, but I feel overall the map now lacks on ambience and feels very inanimate.
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Disagreed on bast. I love how nice it plays now (always was a good map, even better now), but I miss the Easter Egg from Aliens <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree on Caged.
OK, that would be because they are both by the same person.