Marines Can Win, Quit Gripin
Deathjester
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10030Members
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10030Members
so called 'balance' issues are being confused with 'competancy' issues imho. (my god i hope i spelt competancy right)
i rarely get the pleasure of commanding a groovy team of ppl who do perferm in a rational way.
for example: when building- face the likely approach route of a wandering enemy. if you have to hold (the rough) postion- stay at the ends of corridors. if you need soemthing, use the menu and WAIT rather than wrecking the comm net. teamwork amongst YOURSELVES. keep the comm informed of situational stuff. patrol the phasegates. standard stuff that is obvious to anyone with a grauin of intelligence and the desire to play for/with their team.
id say this is the problem, not game mechanic balances. play clans of similar ability for about 10 hrs and ull find you both get a decent shot at winning, accordign to the bias of the map layout (all maps are biased, but thats GOOD imho- the winning team is the one to break the status quo).
now tbh im a very avergae ocmmander. i get agressive and shout and ppl rightly tell me where to stick it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> but, i think ppl command without actually havign an strategy in mind...they just 'play'. thery arent focusing for the most part on a structured series of objectives. efficient buildign layouts do not constitutes a good strategy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> [although sure, they certainly play a very big role with soem of the those cheeky tf postions on the other side of the wall etc).
again, competancy is the problemo, not the game mechanics.
now ive commanded a decent chunk of v2 victories over this last week, and my strategyt has been the same all the way thru- play for stalemate. its a very old approach, used probably even by amoebas in their little conflicts.
take 4 res 1 hive
keep em
fight over the 3rd
-> stalemate.
thign is, in the endgamewhen all things are equal, the rines tech hti lvl3 and if they are at 'stalemate' before they get that far, its in the bag baby.
its tough to take four res i hear u say.. yea its a **** if the aliens are roaming with a passion- just take em one by one, electrify and move on. go roudn the map in a cirlce, preferably in the direction that hits you the res points most frequently. if the alines steal one, wheel round and have their oen in front of you. and where possible, pick the res that are defensible under the marines cmbat paradigm- ie open ground/at the end of corridors. LET the aliens have the ones that are the nice tight boxes which make groovy green slurges on the walls as grenades land in the middle and do like 1000+ points of dmg (eg the holoprojector bit on ns_origin). this means you can let em build up spend lotsa res, then blast it and net urself soem effeciency.
act intelligently
play for the stalemate.
i rarely get the pleasure of commanding a groovy team of ppl who do perferm in a rational way.
for example: when building- face the likely approach route of a wandering enemy. if you have to hold (the rough) postion- stay at the ends of corridors. if you need soemthing, use the menu and WAIT rather than wrecking the comm net. teamwork amongst YOURSELVES. keep the comm informed of situational stuff. patrol the phasegates. standard stuff that is obvious to anyone with a grauin of intelligence and the desire to play for/with their team.
id say this is the problem, not game mechanic balances. play clans of similar ability for about 10 hrs and ull find you both get a decent shot at winning, accordign to the bias of the map layout (all maps are biased, but thats GOOD imho- the winning team is the one to break the status quo).
now tbh im a very avergae ocmmander. i get agressive and shout and ppl rightly tell me where to stick it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> but, i think ppl command without actually havign an strategy in mind...they just 'play'. thery arent focusing for the most part on a structured series of objectives. efficient buildign layouts do not constitutes a good strategy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> [although sure, they certainly play a very big role with soem of the those cheeky tf postions on the other side of the wall etc).
again, competancy is the problemo, not the game mechanics.
now ive commanded a decent chunk of v2 victories over this last week, and my strategyt has been the same all the way thru- play for stalemate. its a very old approach, used probably even by amoebas in their little conflicts.
take 4 res 1 hive
keep em
fight over the 3rd
-> stalemate.
thign is, in the endgamewhen all things are equal, the rines tech hti lvl3 and if they are at 'stalemate' before they get that far, its in the bag baby.
its tough to take four res i hear u say.. yea its a **** if the aliens are roaming with a passion- just take em one by one, electrify and move on. go roudn the map in a cirlce, preferably in the direction that hits you the res points most frequently. if the alines steal one, wheel round and have their oen in front of you. and where possible, pick the res that are defensible under the marines cmbat paradigm- ie open ground/at the end of corridors. LET the aliens have the ones that are the nice tight boxes which make groovy green slurges on the walls as grenades land in the middle and do like 1000+ points of dmg (eg the holoprojector bit on ns_origin). this means you can let em build up spend lotsa res, then blast it and net urself soem effeciency.
act intelligently
play for the stalemate.
Comments
Also, a decent alien team will get that 3rd hive if they know how to use onos/gorge and lerk correctly despite what upgrades and weapons you have.
Marine is winnable only against an alien team that cba or is lesser skilled.
And also, if <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so called 'balance' issues are being confused with 'competancy'<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is correct, then are you calling PT/Vets incompetent?
However, I've noticed that marines lose terribly often and in many cases this is due to an incompetent commander.
The competency level of a commander in 2.0 has to be MUCH higher than a commander of 1.4 in order to pull off successful wins. However, you have a much improved commander interface to help you in this task.
Very key issues while commanding:
1 - Don't command without a microphone! This eliminates much of your effectiveness. You have to let your team know what you are thinking and planning. Solicit suggestions and advice from the troops on the ground - ask them what they need in order to complete your missions. I've had several commanders who never speak a word. This is extremely frustrating and generally ends up with marines attempting to organize and secure their own objectives instead of the commanders.
2 - Use squad assignments. This can help you organize your troops. This becomes less necessary if you have a dynamic team of marines who can follow orders and form squads on their own. The same goes for waypoints.
3 - Most public alien players get sensory first. Do - send your troops in groups. Do - Sensor sweeps in their path. Tell them to tell you if they need a sensor sweep when you are not providing it. Build observatories at outposts. Hotkey a few observatories so that you can sweep quickly.
4 - Control the resources. I like to have two squads, with a few leftovers for base defense and other tasks. Start by sending your squads out to secure resources. At some point assign one of your squads the task of destroying enemy resource nodes. MANY times aliens setup sensory chambers at res node areas so sweep the areas before your team goes in.
*I*, ego aside, and pretty damn good. Typically highest killer on any server I play on within minutes of joining, and/or the people everyone agrees should be the commander when they eject an idiot.
I've been kicked from cheating-death servers because the admin were aliens and got tired of me winning nearly every encounter, even outnumbered.
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In 2.0? I went from 5:1+ average kill ratio to 1:1 if I'm lucky. 1.04, marines won more than aliens.. I'd say it was like 60/40.. 2.0? 80/20, even 90/10 in alien favor.
That's unbalanced.
And also, if <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->so called 'balance' issues are being confused with 'competancy'<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is correct, then are you calling PT/Vets incompetent? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im sayign play <i>to</i> a stalemate- it does NOT result in a mexican standoff alamo boring thing. it results in hardcore action, because you are playing reactively- the initiative lies with the enemy. That is actually the point: you are assuming you dont have / will never have the initiative and are playign a strategy to use the fact for the better, rather than trying to change the trend, which is costly. think armwrestling/long distance running/[well played] chess.
Obviously, this really isnt very suited to a 6v6 tourney game. But Im sure somewhere I implied that earlier.
PT/VETs make up how much of the NS playerbase?
Wasted calories in that comment tbh.
Look at Flayra's new post in the beta section.
Thank you.
i wrote this after i had seen and read the 2.01a changes. oh yeah, and lets not forget played in this style on it too (and tbh, its even more effective).
did you have anything of merit to say ?
Hey Quant!
Unfortunately Flayra will of course subdue to the ramblings of the ignorant people who refuse to learn and "tweak" it again. I just want to chime in and say that I have now noticed the pendulum swing again. Recently Marines have started to win more and more, especially on certain maps. In fact, some are now starting to belive that MARINES are overpowered.
If anything was to be changed, if I could chose, it would be a few small details. Turrets are a bit too fast on tracking, Onos redemption while eating and... ehm.. actually that's it. No, wait, I'd like to be able to use hotgroups as COM, haven't been able to get that to work yet.
Alien players are never incompitant. If they don't cooperate its fine because the alien side is the "individualistic" side but the marine side is the "team orientated" side. So if aliens work together its cudos for them, if they don't thats fine too. However if marines don't run around in perfect little squades yelling "sir yes sir" then they are friggin morons who are ruining the game.
Aliens have 45 different combinations of player classes to chose from, marines have 12 and thats dependant on the commander actually giving them the upgrade. That means most marines are your basic straight spawn generic grunt with a gun. They have no natural assigned goal to fit their class other than "go kill something" and so all you guys are gonna harp on them for doing what they spawn to do?
If this was TF we were talking about and engineers were spawning and instantly running out to attack the enemy instead of building sentries and gaurding the base then you would have a leg to stand on. If scouts were zooming around never bothering to try and nab the flag then you would be right, the players would be stupid.
Every marine is the same as every other marine. They all build, they all have a gun. Why should any average marine feel the need to cooperate when he doesn't bring anything complimentary to the table?