Marines
stellerwinds
Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16459Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16459Members, Constellation
Marines have NEVER been what they should be. This has nothing to do with 2.0 darnit.
Aliens have 5 classes, each class has 3 evolution upgrades, each upgrade has 3 sub-choices. That means I've got 45 different combinations of alien to choose from. I can be a fade with redemption, cloaking and celerity; or i can be a fade with carapace, pheremones and adrenaline. Both those fades have different play styles and different strategic value.
Marines on the other hand which are supposed to be the team orientated side have 3 classed and 4 weapon types. Thats 12 total different combinations matched against the alien's 45. Without diversity teamwork is not as implied. You take TF and you have a incredibly team orientated game because of the great diversity of classes and their dependance on one another.
I've always seen more natural cooperation from alien players however than marines. Fades show up when a squad of marines need to be driven out of a position, skulks charge in suicide rushes just to delay the marines while gorges work to build their side up, gorges healing behind the front lines while aliens rotate in and out of combat.
Marines have no comparison to this kind of natural teamwork except for the welder healer because they have no diversity they are not dependant on one another in any kind of team sense.
Now if marines had medics, sensor scouts, demomen and the like there would be a vast improvement in the natural cooperation of the team.
I can't believe posts like this are getting locked either. The public players make a far vaster testing pool than any private group of testers, it makes no sense to slince us.
Aliens have 5 classes, each class has 3 evolution upgrades, each upgrade has 3 sub-choices. That means I've got 45 different combinations of alien to choose from. I can be a fade with redemption, cloaking and celerity; or i can be a fade with carapace, pheremones and adrenaline. Both those fades have different play styles and different strategic value.
Marines on the other hand which are supposed to be the team orientated side have 3 classed and 4 weapon types. Thats 12 total different combinations matched against the alien's 45. Without diversity teamwork is not as implied. You take TF and you have a incredibly team orientated game because of the great diversity of classes and their dependance on one another.
I've always seen more natural cooperation from alien players however than marines. Fades show up when a squad of marines need to be driven out of a position, skulks charge in suicide rushes just to delay the marines while gorges work to build their side up, gorges healing behind the front lines while aliens rotate in and out of combat.
Marines have no comparison to this kind of natural teamwork except for the welder healer because they have no diversity they are not dependant on one another in any kind of team sense.
Now if marines had medics, sensor scouts, demomen and the like there would be a vast improvement in the natural cooperation of the team.
I can't believe posts like this are getting locked either. The public players make a far vaster testing pool than any private group of testers, it makes no sense to slince us.
Comments
i droped 5 Heavy armor and welders .....All 5 ran out of base without guns and never came back....
team work is tought not automatic and these will be frustrating times untill everyone catchs on
point is, you got 5 wholey different alien styles, and marines have 3, and to be honest it could be 2 cos LA and HA are only really different due to the welding.
also, the difference between LA shotty and LA HMG, is far less than sens skulk and dc skulk (marines is still all track and click tbh, while sens is for stalkage and DC is for rushage etc..)
So you think adding medics demomen and sensor scouts won't unbalanced the game at all with no chances to the aliens?
THIS is the reason these posts are locked because people post baised unbalanced and poorly thought out ideas.
And your reasoning is flawed, a regen celerity cloak fade still dies the same way as a caprace silence phereomones fade, the two do not require a change in MARINE TACTICS to counter them, this is the flaw.
Add this together, and you reach an amazing amount of variety, although the diversity in individual playstyle is by design bigger for the aliens.
Anyways marines have jp,ha,nothing and weapons of pistol, welder, hmg, goat launcher, shotgun, knife?
A marine can have jsut a knife and no weapon...
So do some math waht is 3 * 8! (!=factorial) +1 (1=commander class) +1 (digesting class) +1 (parasited marine) so wait you can be a ha, hmg, no pistol/wleder and parasited so taht is a classs?
How abot the above and you are digesting... Another variation? How about you are a marine with 1 health and 239 ammo vs 1 marine with 5 health and 2 ammo?
Variations... Variations...
How about your name you are playing starts with an A?
Or how about it is 3 letters long?
So in conclusion don't try to be an intellignorant person.
hhhmmm!
explain what you mean by marine tactics?
the way i see it, all tactics are gunna be just about some variation of 'shoot' surely?
also, killing a skulk with cloaking and silence, isnt the same as killing a skulk with celerity and cara.
Anyways marines have jp,ha,nothing and weapons of pistol, welder, hmg, goat launcher, shotgun, knife?
A marine can have jsut a knife and no weapon...
So do some math waht is 3 * 8! (!=factorial) +1 (1=commander class) +1 (digesting class) +1 (parasited marine) so wait you can be a ha, hmg, no pistol/wleder and parasited so taht is a classs?
How abot the above and you are digesting... Another variation? How about you are a marine with 1 health and 239 ammo vs 1 marine with 5 health and 2 ammo?
Variations... Variations...
How about your name you are playing starts with an A?
Or how about it is 3 letters long?
So in conclusion don't try to be an intellignorant person. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.tribes3.org/forums/images/smilies/confoosed.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Aliens work exactly the same. Totally new players who spawn as a gorge say "oh i can build and heal, im a support class" and they play that way.
I'm just saying the marines need more inherant purpose like that. Otherwise don't blame the players for not being the team orientated side.
I'm talking about marines not being the team orientated side that they are meant to be. I don't think anyone here can honestly claim that often you will have trouble with the marine team actually working together. How many posts do you see where the bottom line is "if the stupid marines would just play smart there wouldnt be a problem". That is what im addressing.
Frankly i think the sides are pretty well matched now. That doesn't mean I think its the right kind of matched. A matched that requires one side "needs to know how to play right".
I'm just saying the marines need more inherant purpose like that. Otherwise don't blame the players for not being the team orientated side. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines have a comm.
A comm says to a marine: You're a scout, here's a JP.. take your squadmate with you. Go clean up some alien resource towers. Keep them busy on the left side of the map. Let me know what chambers you find.
A comm says to a marine: You're a base defender. Here's a GL. Your squadmate has the HMG. Build the stuff as I put it down.
A comm says to a marine: You're my main attack force. Here's your HA/SG. Take your squadmates with you. One of them has the welder. Go hit their hive on the right side.
A comm says, I'm commander. Your freakin' inherent purpose is to listen to me and do what we need to get done. Move out!
If the marines felt a deeper sense of team value through more diverse roles they would naturally be more inclined to work as a team.
Everyone Always goes back to this argument of "if the marines would just do as they are told." That isnt a solution, its just pointing a finger.
A military structure doesn't go "Oh, we need a defender over here but the guy we have prefers to assault." It goes, "You! Hold this position!"
If you don't want to listen to a commander, play as an alien. Or take the comm yourself.
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Um, actually he should. Why do you think hes called the <b>command</b>er not the "guy who sits back and gives you things you ask for". He is the undeniable leader of the marine team. He dictates where you go, what you do, how you fight, etc. He is the eye in the sky, the man with the plan.
Kwil's got it.
So every last marine on the team should sit in the base until he gets a waypoint? They should never have their own innitiative, never suggest their own tactics?
The marine team is a team. Its not called "Commander's side". The commander should work WITH his marines, not be a iron fisted ruler. No matter what his official title. A good leader is also a great listener and team player.