Reasons Behind The Complaints
ScarletPhoenix
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19133Members
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19133Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Think before you post...</div> Think for a second. Here before you lies NS 2.0, the culmination of hundreds, if not thousands of man-hours of work. It includes features more sophisticated than any other HL mod has achieved thus far (and I've played many, but correct me if I'm wrong; I think S&I was approaching it, but it was nowhere near as fun and development has ceased), has a large community of servers to play on, and the developers barely make a cent off of it (certainly not enough to justify the hours that were put into it). For your money ($0), you're getting a mod that is more refined and bug free than 75% of the PoS games that are released into the market these days. It may not be 100% balanced, but I have yet to play an FPS that really was and didn't have mirror image teams and maps (think Quake CTF). The minute NS goes retail a la CS and DoD, feel free to come back after having plunked down your cold, hard cash and gripe about it. But for now, please try to be constructive.
That said, here's other reasons why you should wait before bashing NS:
1.) Comm: OK, what's this steam vent thing do?
NS2.0 has, like it or not, attracted many, many 100% complete newbies. They're invading our beloved servers and posting inane comments, spamming our voice chats, and otherwise acting like complete morons. I've been in games with comms that don't know how siege works (i.e. not pinging a well-defended, sensory cloaked hive), games where comms plunk down massive outposts of turrets all at once while the marines are getting trounced, and all sorts of other incredibly wasteful expenditures (ramboing onos comes to mind). It will take them a while to adjust, and until they do, the pub quality will not be as good as it was.
2.) WTH? Only 1 hive? What are you gorges doing?
If you haven't played the game for a while, and you don't have the mechanics down solid, don't start complaining or spamming voice comm. I've heard people telling me that I'm slacking because I haven't put up a hive that's been locked down since I started frantically telling people to get there ten minutes ago. I've had people demanding shotties every time they get killed (which are plentiful, numerous, and alone in isolated hallways). If you're a newbie, then let people know about it and follow orders. Hell, I've been playing the game for a year now, and I still am learning new things (especially since 2.0). Don't comm until you have at least a week, preferably two of solid play experience. You have to start somewhere, but somewhere doesn't have to be a complete wipe that no-one has fun with (which it likely will be anyway, so might as well minimize casualties).
3.) OMG dude, get off gorge! I'm gorge!
Even NS 1.04 players have something new to learn with NS2.0. A lot of them seem reluctant to learn these new things. Try and read up a little before telling people what they're doing is wrong. There is no right or wrong build order and no right or wrong way to play (to an extent). That was one of the big changes that makes NS more accessible to the newbie now. Try to not rely on old strategies, instead formulating new ones. I've seen people doing the exact same things in NS2.0 that they were doing in NS1.04 and then complaining about NS2.0 is broken, when a new strategy would've done a lot better. Now, when the version is in its infancy, is the best time to try radical changes before people get locked into their old ways once again.
4.) I can't see them! HAX! HAX!
Sensory chambers are very nice and fun to play with as a gorge, I'll give you that. However, observatories rip them to shreds. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many comms actually pinging effectively. I think this is due to a combination of the above three factors. Give NS2.0 some time before talking about balance, and realize that balance varies wildly depending on pub vs. clan. If you're a stacked marine team going up against disorganized aliens you're going to whup them, and the other way around. Online games are NEVER balanced in a pub match because skill levels are never matched evenly. I've come up against alien teams that I literally could not kill a skulk after I had been pumping ammo at them for five minutes, because they were that good. I've come up against alien teams where I could walk into their hive and leisurely knife them.
5.) Dude, this is so unfair. Aliens suck now.
I've kept entire teams of marines pinned down on one side of their base as a gorge. If there was a clone of me on the other side they wouldn't have gotten anywhere for a good five minutes, if other aliens had harrassed. During this time, other gorges could've put up the other hives and captured a lot of RTs. Guaranteed, this wasn't clan level gameplay, but pubs really aren't up to that level. Smart use of sensory in the early game on a pub can net you an easy alien win. In addition, I've found a lot of complaints about game length come from aliens' inability to finish off the game. Everyone wants to go onos at the end because they're used to onos being the game ender (again, locked into old methods of doing things). Barely anyone goes Fade anymore until the end because they don't have acid rocket. Each of these are good in different situations. Skulks are great for harrassment and killing LMGs.
I've seen countless two hours games where aliens simply couldn't pull out the victory because they were locked into a cycle of dying against a marine start turret farm with a comm who has just enough res to keep pulling out a minor victory. No one wants to be the gorge or the lerk, but they are the two evolutions that are essential to finishing off the marines. If they don't have HA, onos are almost an afterthought. Assuming they do, here's what you do: lerks use umbra when turrets are active, switch to spore when they're not (or if there's a high concentration of LMGs in one area). Onos stomp and devour HAs in hit-and-run attacks. Gorges web all over (incl inside of base), bile bomb the turret farms, build D chambers and (if observe is down) sensory chambers near the base (O chambers to wall them in). Fades use acid rocket and, when the marines are down to two or three people, blink in near the IPs and start taking them down. Skulks just keep popping in to either the TF or a high concentration of enemies with xeno.
6.) Dude, this is so unfair. Aliens are amazing now.
A lot of this is tied into the OMG Onos! attitude. My answer is, so what? Onos are incredibly easy to take down or redeem now, and they've wasted approximately ten chambers, six res towers, three hives, or however else you want to quantify it on a one-shot chance to do some damage. If someone can go onos immediately after he dies as an onos, you either are going to lose, should have lost the game already, or are up against a really good onos. The devs can't really do anything about the last one. Chances are the aliens are just having a hard time mopping you up.
7.) The game sucks. It's so monotonous now.
I would contend that there is no optimal build strategy, and even if there is, no one's cramming it down your throat. Personally, I enjoy sensory, defense, motion. That's just me, and probably won't last once marines get more competent with observe. However, once sensory lapses out of favor because of observe, marines will stop getting an observe early on in every game, and sensory will be effective once again as a sneaky tactic. Defense I like not so much for its abilities (which are nice) but because of the healing capabilities for players and nearby turrets. My favorite beginning game strat is to build a series of sensories towards an RT near Marine Start or another key junction with some gorges and a skulk and throw up a res tower and some OTs. Meanwhile, another gorge saves up to cap hive 2 and defenses go up behind it ASAP. I find that you can defend an outpost like this for a long time, especially if you're smart and keep it out of siege range of their MS TF. Again, probably only a valid strategy in pubs (I'm sure clans would own it), but I play mostly on pubs, and so do 99% of NS players.
OK, that's about enough, heh. This was long-winded, but I'm pretty defensive about a game I love and the developers made pro bono. I think the influx of new players, old players unwilling to change routine, and aliens who can't win the victory when they control the entire map are the big problems making the game less fun right now, and the only way to change that is time.
That said, I'd like to hear some people's strategies in different situations, like aliens against one-hive lockdown, two-hive lockdown, and for aliens to mop up. In 2.0, is it viable to relocate or build a mini-base in a place that's not a hive (I'm thinking that U-shaped junction on eclipse where you can seal off both sides of maintenence with one TF, and also access to horseshoe from one hallway)? Are turret farms an actual viable tactic, or are they just a fad that will be defeated when players wise up? What's your gorge build order, and why? Is res control or hive control more important? As a comm, do you spend the extra to give out good weapons first or tech and wait on the weapons? Early observe worth it or not?
That said, here's other reasons why you should wait before bashing NS:
1.) Comm: OK, what's this steam vent thing do?
NS2.0 has, like it or not, attracted many, many 100% complete newbies. They're invading our beloved servers and posting inane comments, spamming our voice chats, and otherwise acting like complete morons. I've been in games with comms that don't know how siege works (i.e. not pinging a well-defended, sensory cloaked hive), games where comms plunk down massive outposts of turrets all at once while the marines are getting trounced, and all sorts of other incredibly wasteful expenditures (ramboing onos comes to mind). It will take them a while to adjust, and until they do, the pub quality will not be as good as it was.
2.) WTH? Only 1 hive? What are you gorges doing?
If you haven't played the game for a while, and you don't have the mechanics down solid, don't start complaining or spamming voice comm. I've heard people telling me that I'm slacking because I haven't put up a hive that's been locked down since I started frantically telling people to get there ten minutes ago. I've had people demanding shotties every time they get killed (which are plentiful, numerous, and alone in isolated hallways). If you're a newbie, then let people know about it and follow orders. Hell, I've been playing the game for a year now, and I still am learning new things (especially since 2.0). Don't comm until you have at least a week, preferably two of solid play experience. You have to start somewhere, but somewhere doesn't have to be a complete wipe that no-one has fun with (which it likely will be anyway, so might as well minimize casualties).
3.) OMG dude, get off gorge! I'm gorge!
Even NS 1.04 players have something new to learn with NS2.0. A lot of them seem reluctant to learn these new things. Try and read up a little before telling people what they're doing is wrong. There is no right or wrong build order and no right or wrong way to play (to an extent). That was one of the big changes that makes NS more accessible to the newbie now. Try to not rely on old strategies, instead formulating new ones. I've seen people doing the exact same things in NS2.0 that they were doing in NS1.04 and then complaining about NS2.0 is broken, when a new strategy would've done a lot better. Now, when the version is in its infancy, is the best time to try radical changes before people get locked into their old ways once again.
4.) I can't see them! HAX! HAX!
Sensory chambers are very nice and fun to play with as a gorge, I'll give you that. However, observatories rip them to shreds. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many comms actually pinging effectively. I think this is due to a combination of the above three factors. Give NS2.0 some time before talking about balance, and realize that balance varies wildly depending on pub vs. clan. If you're a stacked marine team going up against disorganized aliens you're going to whup them, and the other way around. Online games are NEVER balanced in a pub match because skill levels are never matched evenly. I've come up against alien teams that I literally could not kill a skulk after I had been pumping ammo at them for five minutes, because they were that good. I've come up against alien teams where I could walk into their hive and leisurely knife them.
5.) Dude, this is so unfair. Aliens suck now.
I've kept entire teams of marines pinned down on one side of their base as a gorge. If there was a clone of me on the other side they wouldn't have gotten anywhere for a good five minutes, if other aliens had harrassed. During this time, other gorges could've put up the other hives and captured a lot of RTs. Guaranteed, this wasn't clan level gameplay, but pubs really aren't up to that level. Smart use of sensory in the early game on a pub can net you an easy alien win. In addition, I've found a lot of complaints about game length come from aliens' inability to finish off the game. Everyone wants to go onos at the end because they're used to onos being the game ender (again, locked into old methods of doing things). Barely anyone goes Fade anymore until the end because they don't have acid rocket. Each of these are good in different situations. Skulks are great for harrassment and killing LMGs.
I've seen countless two hours games where aliens simply couldn't pull out the victory because they were locked into a cycle of dying against a marine start turret farm with a comm who has just enough res to keep pulling out a minor victory. No one wants to be the gorge or the lerk, but they are the two evolutions that are essential to finishing off the marines. If they don't have HA, onos are almost an afterthought. Assuming they do, here's what you do: lerks use umbra when turrets are active, switch to spore when they're not (or if there's a high concentration of LMGs in one area). Onos stomp and devour HAs in hit-and-run attacks. Gorges web all over (incl inside of base), bile bomb the turret farms, build D chambers and (if observe is down) sensory chambers near the base (O chambers to wall them in). Fades use acid rocket and, when the marines are down to two or three people, blink in near the IPs and start taking them down. Skulks just keep popping in to either the TF or a high concentration of enemies with xeno.
6.) Dude, this is so unfair. Aliens are amazing now.
A lot of this is tied into the OMG Onos! attitude. My answer is, so what? Onos are incredibly easy to take down or redeem now, and they've wasted approximately ten chambers, six res towers, three hives, or however else you want to quantify it on a one-shot chance to do some damage. If someone can go onos immediately after he dies as an onos, you either are going to lose, should have lost the game already, or are up against a really good onos. The devs can't really do anything about the last one. Chances are the aliens are just having a hard time mopping you up.
7.) The game sucks. It's so monotonous now.
I would contend that there is no optimal build strategy, and even if there is, no one's cramming it down your throat. Personally, I enjoy sensory, defense, motion. That's just me, and probably won't last once marines get more competent with observe. However, once sensory lapses out of favor because of observe, marines will stop getting an observe early on in every game, and sensory will be effective once again as a sneaky tactic. Defense I like not so much for its abilities (which are nice) but because of the healing capabilities for players and nearby turrets. My favorite beginning game strat is to build a series of sensories towards an RT near Marine Start or another key junction with some gorges and a skulk and throw up a res tower and some OTs. Meanwhile, another gorge saves up to cap hive 2 and defenses go up behind it ASAP. I find that you can defend an outpost like this for a long time, especially if you're smart and keep it out of siege range of their MS TF. Again, probably only a valid strategy in pubs (I'm sure clans would own it), but I play mostly on pubs, and so do 99% of NS players.
OK, that's about enough, heh. This was long-winded, but I'm pretty defensive about a game I love and the developers made pro bono. I think the influx of new players, old players unwilling to change routine, and aliens who can't win the victory when they control the entire map are the big problems making the game less fun right now, and the only way to change that is time.
That said, I'd like to hear some people's strategies in different situations, like aliens against one-hive lockdown, two-hive lockdown, and for aliens to mop up. In 2.0, is it viable to relocate or build a mini-base in a place that's not a hive (I'm thinking that U-shaped junction on eclipse where you can seal off both sides of maintenence with one TF, and also access to horseshoe from one hallway)? Are turret farms an actual viable tactic, or are they just a fad that will be defeated when players wise up? What's your gorge build order, and why? Is res control or hive control more important? As a comm, do you spend the extra to give out good weapons first or tech and wait on the weapons? Early observe worth it or not?
Comments
But a really happy nerd now that NS 2.0 is out <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Seriously though, because it's free means that you should approach your criticisms with less of an edge. MonsE could announce that version 3.0 was being released tomorrow, and it was now going to be a solely alien vs. alien game and skulks would all have clown wigs. Some people would appreciate it, I'm sure, but for those who don't, it would still be FREE. You have the choice to put up a server running 1.04 to your heart's content or to make your own metamod that sets things the way you like them. It's great to say "I like it a lot, but I think this could be more balanced..." However, a lot of people seem to forget that we're not dealing with people making 50k a year doing design work for HL2 or something like that, these guys are working on their own spare time for what amounts to peanuts. Some players, with the best of intentions, adopt an antagonistic attitude towards the devs, who should be supported at all costs. I'm sure we're all guilty of sounding snotty, arrogant, condescending, or angry at some point or another, but I'm just asking for a little more restraint from the community.
- Teamwork
- Communication
NS 2.0 owns, adapt please.
That's why I loved the new gorge changes, I have a shot at building structures without feeling incompetent at every step <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Everyone except a select few were kept out of the beta developement of 2.0, once people finally get to play it you dont expect them to talk about it?
If 2.0 was worked up to this point through the public then there wouldn't be this landslide of opinions on its release. Instead however a whole lot of people have been waiting to try 2.0 for themselves. And whats the first thing they hear when they finally get to test it out and have some input?
"Sit down and shut up, we dont wanna hear from you because your just a common public player and not a cool veteran tester."
Now, I haven't heard anyone actually complaining about valid ideas or criticisms, but instead the way they were delivered or the fact that they were made in ignorance. I agree, the playtesters have their share of boorish know-it-alls, but most of them do, indeed, pretty much know it all about NS.
A vanilla marine grunt such as myself cannot comprehend such things.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I have trouble getting people to even GO gorge to help me build res nodes. They wanna save all their precious res to go onos, just to die soon after from a small squad of shotgunners.
Spot on the money... everyone please read and lay off the critiscisms until the general populus adapt!
The NS team put a stack of work into this unbelievable mod, revamped the 1.0 system into what they said was "a whole new game" (thus 2.0).
It'll take a while to get used to the new way of playing games, i still find that most games are very 50/50 alien/marine victories, compared to what was closer to 70/30 alien/marine of 1.04.
When they say to "give it a few weeks", obviously they've realised that the game is radically different, and that we may not recieve it well, and are acting on the Beta Tester's advice that the game takes a wee while to adapt to new tactics - which will most likely make it all the more fun.
Second to that, anyone ever notice that most complaints about NS2.0 are from long-term players that tend to rambo more than anyone?
BTW,Im not a <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> ,I've already gone played and digested a marine,I even donced around him and stunned him until I was bored:D