A Comment About 2.0
SD2000
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19171Members
Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19171Members
<div class="IPBDescription">forgive my disregard of formalities.</div> This being my first post on these boards, I wanted to take the time to say I don't usually contribute to these type of forums, most of the reason I come here are for the custom models. All that aside, I have been playing 2.0 and found it to be interesting, yet certain aspects have gotten annoying really fast. I'll use point form so you dont have to read large drawn out paragraphs of text. lol
*Apart from the commonly known issue, onos+redempt, one thing that annoys is the constant spores. At first I thought it was great, yet the novelty wore off and now its just plain annoying, and ineffective.
*Survival aspect has been lost. In 1.04 there was a feeling of teamwork for survival among the aliens, now its no longer there. Every alien is like a one-alien-army in that after a few kills you have enough res to build whatever you want and dont require teamwork. I occaisionally notice some teamwork, but even that doesnt have the same "survival" feel to it.
* The notion of defending the hive has lost its appeal. In 1.04 the hive represented win or lose, and I realize that changes have been made to make resources the primary issue, however this just plain sucks. I feel no acheivement in patrolling res points, I feel no real acheivement in saving a res point that can be rebuilt for 15 res in a matter of minutes. In 1.04 I felt acheivement in saving the hive against the odds. It was actually a challenge. Now if the hive dies its, "oh well, whose got 35 res?"
*The onos has lost its mojo. I am rushing an Onos with an Lmg and taking it down, perhaps it will devour me, perhaps it wont, redemption/devour is the only thing that makes the onos slightly resemble the fearful beast it once was. I remember when the sight of an Onos would cause marines to run the other way, now they just charge it. Some say this is great, that onos was overpowered, I dont agree. I thought it was great to have this giant alien that everyone feared, and could only be taken down by teamwork.
*The overall fun of the game. I am not having fun playing 2.0. At first I was, because the new changes seemed really great, wow I get to onos much quicker, I get to gorge whenever I want, I get res for making kills, awesome! well no, not really, because the whole feel of the game has shifted away from necessity. I have everything I could ever need to wage my own war on the marines, I dont have to worry about what my team is doing, I will save for onos and we'll probably win because everyone is capping a res here and there inbetween hunting marines for some extra res, oh, theyre attacking the hive! This is a great opportunity to kill off some of their res points. The fun of ns was in the battle for the hives, not in capping res points. To me personally, it has almost become tiresome fighting over res points. I miss the epic battles over the hives.
*The ideas and concepts of 2.0 are remarkable, however their implementation is flawed, and as a result, much of the gameplay that I enjoyed in 1.04 no longer exists. In it's place, a battle that can be fun at times, but gets tired very fast when one side is winning, ie has most of the res points.
I am not saying that 2.0 is worthless, merely saying that it needs more play testing and tweaking. I notice there are servers that restrict the Onos from using redemption, I think that is great, and I have had some great games on servers that dont allow onos's to use redemption. Its awesome to save one of your comrades from the digestive tract of a dead Onos.
Now please excsue me while I don my "flame-resistant" suit. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
*Apart from the commonly known issue, onos+redempt, one thing that annoys is the constant spores. At first I thought it was great, yet the novelty wore off and now its just plain annoying, and ineffective.
*Survival aspect has been lost. In 1.04 there was a feeling of teamwork for survival among the aliens, now its no longer there. Every alien is like a one-alien-army in that after a few kills you have enough res to build whatever you want and dont require teamwork. I occaisionally notice some teamwork, but even that doesnt have the same "survival" feel to it.
* The notion of defending the hive has lost its appeal. In 1.04 the hive represented win or lose, and I realize that changes have been made to make resources the primary issue, however this just plain sucks. I feel no acheivement in patrolling res points, I feel no real acheivement in saving a res point that can be rebuilt for 15 res in a matter of minutes. In 1.04 I felt acheivement in saving the hive against the odds. It was actually a challenge. Now if the hive dies its, "oh well, whose got 35 res?"
*The onos has lost its mojo. I am rushing an Onos with an Lmg and taking it down, perhaps it will devour me, perhaps it wont, redemption/devour is the only thing that makes the onos slightly resemble the fearful beast it once was. I remember when the sight of an Onos would cause marines to run the other way, now they just charge it. Some say this is great, that onos was overpowered, I dont agree. I thought it was great to have this giant alien that everyone feared, and could only be taken down by teamwork.
*The overall fun of the game. I am not having fun playing 2.0. At first I was, because the new changes seemed really great, wow I get to onos much quicker, I get to gorge whenever I want, I get res for making kills, awesome! well no, not really, because the whole feel of the game has shifted away from necessity. I have everything I could ever need to wage my own war on the marines, I dont have to worry about what my team is doing, I will save for onos and we'll probably win because everyone is capping a res here and there inbetween hunting marines for some extra res, oh, theyre attacking the hive! This is a great opportunity to kill off some of their res points. The fun of ns was in the battle for the hives, not in capping res points. To me personally, it has almost become tiresome fighting over res points. I miss the epic battles over the hives.
*The ideas and concepts of 2.0 are remarkable, however their implementation is flawed, and as a result, much of the gameplay that I enjoyed in 1.04 no longer exists. In it's place, a battle that can be fun at times, but gets tired very fast when one side is winning, ie has most of the res points.
I am not saying that 2.0 is worthless, merely saying that it needs more play testing and tweaking. I notice there are servers that restrict the Onos from using redemption, I think that is great, and I have had some great games on servers that dont allow onos's to use redemption. Its awesome to save one of your comrades from the digestive tract of a dead Onos.
Now please excsue me while I don my "flame-resistant" suit. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Although teamworks much better, aliens can still win very easily in a non-teamwork environment. It just takes an extra hour to kill the inevitiable turret farm. (Public servers)
I'll cya later, gotta go somewhere..
im not so sure the only way a lerk can really spore u is if hes got a SC near your base even then he uncloaks to fire at that point u just nail him with a pistol. Ive never seen an issue with the spores TBH as lerks are now rather crap since they lost bite.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*Survival aspect has been lost. In 1.04 there was a feeling of teamwork for survival among the aliens, now its no longer there. Every alien is like a one-alien-army in that after a few kills you have enough res to build whatever you want and dont require teamwork. I occaisionally notice some teamwork, but even that doesnt have the same "survival" feel to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm im not so sure play on servers such as Roobs were teamwork is everything the people thier play as one if u dont u die a painfully slow death as they torture u for it :/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->* The notion of defending the hive has lost its appeal. In 1.04 the hive represented win or lose, and I realize that changes have been made to make resources the primary issue, however this just plain sucks. I feel no acheivement in patrolling res points, I feel no real acheivement in saving a res point that can be rebuilt for 15 res in a matter of minutes. In 1.04 I felt acheivement in saving the hive against the odds. It was actually a challenge. Now if the hive dies its, "oh well, whose got 35 res?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ive got to say i agree the hives are no longer the main aspect as such are just lobbed to a side the only aliens that need more then 1 hive is onos and gorge tbh and maybe a lerk for umbra but u no longer need 3 hives to win a very well armed marine team 2 hives and u can pretty much win umbra-bile-stomp leap is now pretty useless since they removed the FPS touch thing :/ used to be able to kill a marine in 2 leaps oh well.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*The onos has lost its mojo. I am rushing an Onos with an Lmg and taking it down, perhaps it will devour me, perhaps it wont, redemption/devour is the only thing that makes the onos slightly resemble the fearful beast it once was. I remember when the sight of an Onos would cause marines to run the other way, now they just charge it. Some say this is great, that onos was overpowered, I dont agree. I thought it was great to have this giant alien that everyone feared, and could only be taken down by teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i have to agree in 1.04 u could charge 2-3-4 HA HMG marines and expect to walk away with a good deal of life i guess its all to do with the balance issues i guess :/ least they taken out redep-devour in the 2.01a beta patch YA. The main thing is that in 1.04 the onos was an end gamer once u sore one u know u had big probs on your hands.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*The overall fun of the game. I am not having fun playing 2.0. At first I was, because the new changes seemed really great, wow I get to onos much quicker, I get to gorge whenever I want, I get res for making kills, awesome! well no, not really, because the whole feel of the game has shifted away from necessity. I have everything I could ever need to wage my own war on the marines, I dont have to worry about what my team is doing, I will save for onos and we'll probably win because everyone is capping a res here and there inbetween hunting marines for some extra res, oh, theyre attacking the hive! This is a great opportunity to kill off some of their res points. The fun of ns was in the battle for the hives, not in capping res points. To me personally, it has almost become tiresome fighting over res points. I miss the epic battles over the hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont know ive seen many big fights were the marines have 1 hive locked down and are moving in for hive number 2 which aliens defo need to win, the res thing is true tho if comm tells me to go somewere and i see a alien Rt i will stop to knife it as it cripples the aliens same goes for the aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->*The ideas and concepts of 2.0 are remarkable, however their implementation is flawed, and as a result, much of the gameplay that I enjoyed in 1.04 no longer exists. In it's place, a battle that can be fun at times, but gets tired very fast when one side is winning, ie has most of the res points<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye lerk bite, The JP its now nearly impossible just to get off the floor to stop an onos eating u :/ i miss the old FPS JP, parasite kills i hardly ever see them anymore and the mass laughing that insued, Leap kills are also rare since they fixed it, now just a way to get around quickly. The main problem is the rambo aspect its now nearly impossible as the aliens either get celerity meaning thier impossibly fast to hit without an aimbot lol or SCs in which case they cloak everything and just eat u :/ i rather liked to rambo killing off aliens RTs and such especially when i knew the comm was crap and thier was no hope of winning nomatter what, the aliens on the other hand can just drop a SC and wait in ambush for an hour eating all the marines one after another as the comm can only scan 4 times before his dish has to recharge maybe give it 150 power instead of 100.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now please excsue me while I don my "flame-resistant" suit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think u need a flame and bullet proof suit with this lot and a gas mask <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree completely. The keywords are "no epic battles, no (imposed by game) team feeling for aliens, no feeling of achievement"
I noticed when we, skulks, group rush(by old habbit, as group rush is not neccessary to win any more) PG location, I prefer to bite marines first, even if PG is red, because it will give ME the resources, and I can become an onos, and I dont care about hive any more. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I believe, in stating the direct opposite of the truth in every case, that you are, purposfully or not, presenting yourself as a troll.
So, please don't feed the trolls.
I'm looking forward to the patch, and I think developement of any game is a process of trial and error.
Psykotyk
I'm sure you've heard about people complaining that their 7 redemp onos rush into the marine base failed miserably and they therefore whine that onos is underpowered. What those people dont realize is that if they used 3 onos, 2 lerks, and 2 gorges that base would be toast on the first run.
Teamwork wins games. Marines currently dont have much teamwork, therefore the aliens havent needed much yet. Just wait a bit.
Right. It's like seeing a turret factory in the marine base when the game just started in 1.04: something the other team can be happy about. Sure, those turrets might cost you a few losses, but the main effect was slowing down the marine expansion significantly. A 2.0 early onos is the same: kills a few marines, but those 100 res could have built a hive and some defences around it.
Let me tell you something kid...
In 1.04, teamwork and survival for the alien team was a Must because of JP/HMG. If aliens did NOT pull together and did NOT try their darndest to survive, they would get smashed. Playing on aliens meant you had to be skillful, general, and in essence contain a degree of bloodlust.
Aliens are more anarchistic now. It is the aliens anarchy that counters the marine order. True, aliens need teamwork to win. A single fade cannot destroy a well defended outpost, neither can a single onos.
1.04 was NOT fun at all. The same games played the same time every time. Endless DMS syndrome from the aliens, Endless JP/HMG syndrome from the marines. There was no STRATEGY. There was no alternative paths. The game was quite simple. Will aliens get that second hive up, or will the marines JP/HMG the initial hive before then?
NS is a far more 3 dimensional game then 1.04 ever was. DMS is dead and gone, JP/HMG has been nerfed to the point where it is no longer an "OMGZ!!! TEh WInz0r!" strategy, instead teching up or building bases are more viable.
In 1.04, marines dictated the entire game. Would marines relocate to double res? Would marines JP/HMG rush? Would marines spawn camp? Would marines do this, or would marines do that. In short, aliens were constantly on the defensive until the second hive was up and fades were churning out. Now, aliens have a chance to dictate terms and marines are squirming under this new regime. Do aliens have SC's? Do aliens have onos yet? Do aliens have the second hive? But marines can to a degree still dictate terms. Do marines have electrified nodes? Have the marines relocated to a hive/double res? Are marines getting upgrades or HA?
It is the marines addiction to dictating terms in 1.04 that has made them weak and pathetic. Marines did NOT get weaker. Aliens merely got more options instead of directly countering whatever marine strategy was in place, and the marines certainly do not like this at all. They are used to dictating the outcome of the match, they are not used to having it dictated to them.
As it stands, resources are god. That is the goal of any strategy game. If you run out of resources, you lose. Resources = Survival. Hives are teching up. If you do not tech up in a strategy game, you will lose to a more technically advanced opponent. Hives = Tech. No resources = No tech. No tech = no counter to HA. No counter to HA = lose. Aliens can put up more of a fight now with one hive onos. If you were ever on a losing alien team in 1.04, you know how refreshing and relieving it is to evolve to onos and do your part in fending off those marines, rather then getting creamed constantly as a skulk.
Marines simply have to work harder towards their victory then ever before. And in my opinion, it's a good thing. Aliens no longer have to surpass insurmountable odds to secure a victory, and this is a good thing. 2.00 is unbalanced, but as it stands it contains far more elements of a true strategy game then I've ever seen before in NS. It is more fun then 1.04 was, since aliens are no longer helpless. They are formiddable. I have played marines far more often in 2.00 then in any 1.0x version. That says something now dosent it? It's more of a challenge to be marines now, rather then sitting in base whining for a JP/HMG, you need to work for victory, you need to live by the skin of your teeth, you must TRY.
In 1.04, aliens tried, and often all that trying, all that effort was wasted when someone went "HAHAHAH! PWNED YUOR HIVEZ0R!!!".
The recent complaints of "T3h Ali3n pwn4g3!!!" I find amusing. It's finally a comeuppance for broken strategies used by marines pre 2.00 (crouch bug, JP/HMG, etc). Although, it is not an even comeuppance. For aliens, there was no surefire counter to JP/HMG. You just took out their res and hoped they didnt have enough for protolab + upgrades. As of 2.00, there are counters that marines have not yet devised. Onos killing your base? Concentrate fire. Aliens swimming in res? Kill their res towers, and try not to die in the process. Sensory? Build multiple obs' and scan away.
Face it, NS is an FPS/RTS hybrid. Onos might "Seem" overpowered or underpowered or however the hell you see it. Fact of the matter is, I've seen roughly equal wins on both sides. More alien then marine admittedly, but these are minor bugs that will be adressed.
I'm not sure where I was going when I started this but I guess my point is somewhere lost in there...
Marines need teamwork to win.
Aliens need teamwork to beat marines using teamwork.
It's as simple as that.
It's exactly THAT thinking which is tripping you up <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Same
I think that the Epic battles are still here, I have played in many.
I have a feeling that alot of players are playing on bad servers, try looking around for a good server and playing there, or move on till you find one that works for you.
3 Hives doesn't mean GG any more, I like it like that, I have played Mineshaft where we had 3 hives in under 15 mins, we weren't able to kill the marines and win the game for an hour after that.
Mix it up, if you always try Marines on a certian map, go Kharaa, if you never play as a gorge or commander try it out!
This game is alot of fun, people need to losen up and find the fun!
The playtesters weren't chosen because they were skilled. Only the veterans were.
No, it simply means that the aliens will need to work as a team to attack groups of HA. As they should.
By the way, it really isn't complicated at all. Just attack with a balanced force with each lifeform doing what it does best.